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  #1901  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 3:02 AM
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jmt18325 jmt18325 is offline
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Originally Posted by North of 49 View Post
Winnipeg still could do better.
Maybe...but so could Calgary, or any other location. To look at where we've just come from to where we are now, we're doing excellent.
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  #1902  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 6:14 AM
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Only The Lonely.. Only The Lonely.. is offline
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More than Quebec City or Hamilton you think? Because those our our sister cities far more than any of those that you mentioned. Winnipeg is doing fine, and there is a great deal going on here and it isn't just about government. This isn't the 90s.
Downtown Winnipeg's relative 'boom' compared to the decay that occured in the 90's has more to do with an enlarged government and social state than anything else.

When one thinks of the biggest projects that happened downtown in the last decade the majority of them were public sector driven:

-CMHR
-MB Hydro Place
-MB Theatre for Young People at the Forks
-Red River College Princess Street re-development
-Sport Manitoba re-development (destruction) of the former Prosperity Knitware site
-True North Centre to some degree
-Thunderbird House
-United Way new head office (which displaced viable commercial businesses no less)
-University of Winnipeg expansion
-WRHA Head Office
-Youth For Christ Rec. Centre

Large Commercial transactions
-MPI buying City Place
-Winnipeg Property Registry taking over the space vacated by CD Plus at the old Birks store; after the main floor commercial space sat empty for a number of years.

Pending large developments
-Convention Centre Expansion
-New Police HQ
-Union Bank Tower redevelopment (again Red River College)
-Upper Fort Garry Interpretive Centre


If it wasn't for the government, downtown would be virtually unchanged (with the exception of buildings since demolished) from the 90's.
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Last edited by Only The Lonely..; Jan 25, 2011 at 6:28 AM.
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  #1903  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 6:31 AM
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Originally Posted by North of 49 View Post

For Winnipeg to really prosper and grow. We need to stop thinking of ourselves as a big town.

...Being a big town has it's advantages though.

I think that's how we got into all this trouble in the first place, by selling ourselves short as a community and buying into mediocrity.

Winnipeg was once third biggest in the whole of this great land, at the forefront of progress in areas as diverse as rapid transit (We had the first electric streetcar system in Canada, a system so extensive it went to Selkirk MB), shopping (Polo Park was one of the first malls in Canada), and conventions (One of the first convention centres in Canada)...over time we lost our way...We fell from 3rd to 4th biggest, then 5th, 6th..and now somewhere between 7 and 9th largest.

Economic stagnation, urban decay, rampant crime and poverty..

This is where small town thinking and short term planning has taken us.

Anyways, Dan Lett had a lot to say on leadership yesterday.



Just maybe politicians should start thinking big

By: Dan Lett | Monday Jan. 24th, 2011

Posted: 01/24/2011 1:00 AM | - Winnipeg Free Press

Is it time for the big idea?

In almost all jurisdictions, and at all levels of government, politicians are looking for a way to motivate voters. Opinion polls tell us most voters think politicians are out of new ideas. This theory is validated in large part by election campaigns that are nearly bereft of creativity and boldness.

The most recent municipal election in Winnipeg is a good case in point. Other than 58 new police officers, it was difficult to find any news in Mayor Sam Katz's re-election bid.

Former premier Gary Doer won three majority governments with a combination of folksy charm, measured management and sober, underwhelming election campaigns.

On the federal stage, those leaders and parties who tried to float the big idea -- Stéphane Dion's infamous Green Shift comes to mind -- have been savaged by voters. Given all this recent history, why would anyone want to include a big, bold, risky idea as part of a plan to win or retain power?

Ironically, that is exactly what former prime minister Brian Mulroney would have current Prime Minister Stephen Harper do as he enters his sixth year in office. In an interview with The Globe and Mail last week, Mulroney said it's important to remember big ideas: "History remembers the big-ticket items."

Mulroney should know. He built alliances with Quebec nationalists to win majorities, tackled free trade and introduced the GST.

He did not, however, have a specific big idea for Harper. Mulroney identified the issue -- health care -- but could muster nothing grander than a suggestion that Harper strike a blue-ribbon panel to study the future of medicare. Mulroney, having clearly forgotten former Saskatchewan premier Roy Romanow's verbose 2002 Royal Commission on Health Care, seems to validate the theory that our political leaders, past and present, have simply run out of big ideas.

Pragmatists will claim the big idea is inappropriate in an age of deficit financing and low voter turnout. Incrementalism was once considered the enemy of progress; now, it appears political leaders embrace incremental change as the only change possible.

The aforementioned Doer was a master of incrementalism and a dedicated student of political restraint. He was frequently criticized for not doing more to attack the municipal infrastructure deficit or not eliminating the education portion of property taxes. But as the majorities began to pile up and Manitoba's economic standing in the federation rose, he often chided those of us who dared to criticize him. Doer would often say that only journalists and opposition leaders think big, bold ideas are a good idea. Those who understand governing, he added, understand that big and bold is needlessly risky.

His successor, Premier Greg Selinger, has so far shown he prefers to govern with the same Doerian incrementalism. The 2010-2011 budget and last fall's speech from the throne were stuffed with small, positive measures, but absent anything that could even remotely be called bold. And as Selinger hurtles towards another deficit budget and a fall election that promises to be the most competitive in a decade, he cannot afford bold. That does not mean that game-changing ideas are beyond his grasp.

The city, for example, continues to emit desperate pleas for a greater share of sales taxes to pay for infrastructure. The city, provincial and federal governments will spend $370 million this year fixing Winnipeg's streets, bridges and sidewalks. And despite the expenditure of that lofty sum, the city will end the year with a larger inventory of crumbling infrastructure than it began with. At this pace, incrementalism will destroy our cities.

The big idea is a new one-point sales tax dedicated to infrastructure funds. Canada's big cities have been trying for years to snag a dedicated portion of the sales tax, a growth tax, to replace regressive property taxes. And given that growing provincial and federal deficits mean there is virtually no way to channel a greater portion of existing tax revenues to infrastructure, adding a point to the sales tax is probably the only way to meet the needs of cities.

It's a big idea to be sure, but it's also a perilous move that requires a leader who is deft and courageous. Given the growing need and the ravaged treasury, it's an idea worth considering.

Incrementalism is the safe course. But what if ambivalent voters are just waiting for someone to shed the glacial pace of incrementalism in favour of game-changing change. What would history say about that kind of leader?
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Last edited by Only The Lonely..; Jan 25, 2011 at 6:48 AM.
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  #1904  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 7:33 AM
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its still better then a vacant empty downtown like 5yrs ago.......
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  #1905  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 7:44 AM
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Not to mention that the combination of all of those "government" projects acts as a baseline level of momentum for redevelopment downtown. I particularly think that the expansion of the two post-secondary campuses downtown, and associated student residence additions will do wonders for bringing some life back into the area.
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  #1906  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 12:55 PM
Winnipegger@Heart Winnipegger@Heart is offline
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Hopefully, as the redevelopment of the Union Bank Tower gets closer to completion, we see more storefronts appearing in the area. Qualico's foray into the Exchange is a turning point, and the U of W is on a roll. I, too, would like to see a sleek tower rise somewhere downtown, but at this point, I would like to see surface lots filled with anything other than something akin to the nasty WRHA building on Main. Small-scale projects are alright for now.

For me, the biggest hurdle was the redevelopment of the Avenue building.

What annoys me is how much happens behind closed doors in terms of new developments. For all we know, there are proposals flying around for surafce lots downtown. Not much is made public in this town. Then again, look at the press the idiot who owns the St. Charles received, and yet the building is still a disgrace. Apparently, he is proceeding with it...

It will only benefit the city when McFadyen removes rent control when he is Premier next year.
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  #1907  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 1:19 PM
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Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
That's interesting...

in that blog post, they talk about Earls on Main wanting to purchase the north section of land for more parking (it does get pretty packed) but this is one of the rationales from ensuring the city retains ownership of this property, and would rather lease it:



Interesting...

the blogger suggests:




Neato.
It would be a pretty slick solution. If I remember correctly, the tracks closest to Union Station are not in use, so with an overpass the new rapid transit line could easily run through Union Station & up the east side of Main Street till St. Mary Ave, leaving only the one block on Main St. to Graham.
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  #1908  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 1:33 PM
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[RIGHT]
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
If it wasn't for the government, downtown would be virtually unchanged (with the exception of buildings since demolished) from the 90's.
Except that you're wrong. A city that's growing by over 10000 people a year has to have development, both inside and out of downtown. Winnipeg is on a roll.
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  #1909  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 4:38 PM
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The argument that Winnipeg is less than a prosperous city because all the big projects are Government or public sector is over used and under thought often on this forum. Many people think that Winnipeg is just some sort of Government haven where all the big buildings are government offices, all the high paying jobs are civil servants and government officials, and that without them, we would have nothing. While I believe that Winnipeg has a strong private sector and if you take the time to stroll through downtown you will see a lot of private businesses, I will admit that Winnipeg does have a large public sector.

But I would like to ask why many members on this forum think that a large public sector is detrimental to the cities overall image and ultimately prosperity? Of course it is no secret that not-for-profit government offices do not generate as much (if any at all) profit, nor do they look as good as a large gleaming skyscraper full of financial market manipulators and insurance brokers, but in the end which is more useful? It seems as if some on this forum want Winnipeg to "look good" in terms of a shiny new skyline, dense downtown, and active nightlife, but they believe that will come when the big banks settle down here and the major insurance brokers call this place home.

Well I would like to ask you as to what is better in the long run for Winnipegers and Canadians in general? Big gleaming sky scrapers filled with stock brokers, marketeers, CEO's, simply making big money out of the stock market, bubbles, and returns, or true production of wealth by means of extracting resources, constructing physical capital, and cultivating human capital? How about Government services? They are just as vital, if not more, than big brokerage firms that some of you wish to occupy downtown. Of course the efficiency of the Government beauacracy can always be debated, but many of the public servants that occupy downtown towers and buildings are essential to Canadian government which is present in every province.

Sure I'd like a big fourty storey glass monument, or several of them even as much as the next guy, but Winnipeg is not Toronto nor is it Calgary. The financial industry isn't going to decide to suddenly locate here en masse, and neither is the oil industry. I believe that Winnipeg does just fine with its mix of Public and Private sector downtown and in the surrounding area, and the arguement that "everything done in Winnipeg is ordained by the government" whereas the argument asserts that such a driving force behind such development is regarded as negative is rubbish. Yes, there are a lot of public projects, but be glad we are getting them as opposed to none of them.

TL;DR: So what if many of our projects are government projects? If you don't like it, you can do three things:
1. Move away
2. Start up your own business
3. Continue to do nothing but complain

You can say that lower taxes in the private sector will boost the economy, but then you will turn around and complain that public transit, basic infrastructure, water treatment, and education are lacking. Do you want to pick up the taxes? Because it's not like if you lower the business tax by five percent, enough businesses will open to make up that lost five percent in any reasonable amount of time. Some of you want it all and aren't willing to give up anything for it.
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  #1910  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 4:56 PM
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Winnipeg is not Toronto nor is it Calgary. The financial industry isn't going to decide to suddenly locate here en masse, and neither is the oil industry.
Just to point out that Winnipeg once was to banking in Western Canada what Calgary is today.

The banks followed the oil money west to Calgary, and moved all of their regional headquarters from Winnipeg.

So really, Winnipeg WAS Calgary (at least in terms of the banking and financial sector). Now we are Montreal to Calgary's Toronto. If you get my meaning.
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  #1911  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 4:57 PM
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^ Once people get used to roundabouts, there will be far less traffic backed up versus a 4-way stop or a traffic light.


Properly built roundabouts can handle huge amounts of traffic smoothly. One I can think of is on The Lynnway, an expressway north of Boston. I works very well.
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  #1912  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 7:52 PM
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I just wanna say -- this is one of the most interesting discussions I've seen in a while regarding Winnipeg!!

Keep it up, I'm learning lots!
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  #1913  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 8:11 PM
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It would be a pretty slick solution. If I remember correctly, the tracks closest to Union Station are not in use, so with an overpass the new rapid transit line could easily run through Union Station & up the east side of Main Street till St. Mary Ave, leaving only the one block on Main St. to Graham.
or go underground. I think that would be the best option in the long term. underground below portage and continue west to Polo Park/Airport. It could resurface maybe after Broadway then run down Portage street level.
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  #1914  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 10:06 PM
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I don't think it is possible (or necessary) for Winnipeg to simply start trying (again) to lure big offices from Calgary or Toronto right off the hop. What it should be doing is encouraging a more dynamic and diverse economy that, through Winnipeg's affordability, acts as an incubator for smaller firms. Think of Wellington West, which started up as a "local investment boutique" less than 20 years ago, and now is a thriving company that built new headquarters on a vacant lot in the East Exchange District, and well as rents offices in Toronto.

Remember how cities came to grow in the first place: through concentrations of knowledge and services, which creates both cooperation and competition among firms, which in turn creates greater and more diverse concentrations. Bigger ventures can be created, or be attracted from elsewhere, through a dynamic concentration of smaller ventures. In other words, if enough investment firms with four-storey head offices are thriving in Winnipeg, some of them will expand and built 12 or 25-storey buildings, or a major investment firm will move to the city to be close to the action here.

Also, if extracting resources, constructing physical capital and "cultivating human capital" caused the "true production of wealth," why does Manitoba draw some 40% of its budget from Federal transfer payments?
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  #1915  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2011, 11:50 PM
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I don't think it is possible (or necessary) for Winnipeg to simply start trying (again) to lure big offices from Calgary or Toronto right off the hop. What it should be doing is encouraging a more dynamic and diverse economy that, through Winnipeg's affordability, acts as an incubator for smaller firms. Think of Wellington West, which started up as a "local investment boutique" less than 20 years ago, and now is a thriving company that built new headquarters on a vacant lot in the East Exchange District, and well as rents offices in Toronto.

Remember how cities came to grow in the first place: through concentrations of knowledge and services, which creates both cooperation and competition among firms, which in turn creates greater and more diverse concentrations. Bigger ventures can be created, or be attracted from elsewhere, through a dynamic concentration of smaller ventures. In other words, if enough investment firms with four-storey head offices are thriving in Winnipeg, some of them will expand and built 12 or 25-storey buildings, or a major investment firm will move to the city to be close to the action here.

Also, if extracting resources, constructing physical capital and "cultivating human capital" caused the "true production of wealth," why does Manitoba draw some 40% of its budget from Federal transfer payments?
True wealth comes from the creation of things, not speculation, bubbles, and jumping on the band wagon. And according to the 2010/2011 budget, Federal transfers only account for 32.5% of income for the province, much lower than your stated 40%. We have solid agricultural industries, aerospace, transportation, logistics, and food industries. These are all viable and stable industries because we will always need them no matter what. As for financial investors and speculators, they make money out of thin air that is nothing more than a change of numbers on some bank's data base. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that there is some use for the financial industry and I'm not about to bash the entire thing, but no one can deny that some forms of labour are more productive in terms of physical and human capital than others.
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  #1916  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2011, 12:28 AM
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or go underground. I think that would be the best option in the long term. underground below portage and continue west to Polo Park/Airport. It could resurface maybe after Broadway then run down Portage street level.
Taking that into consideration specifically, I totally agree
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  #1917  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2011, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Winnipegger View Post
True wealth comes from the creation of things, not speculation, bubbles, and jumping on the band wagon. And according to the 2010/2011 budget, Federal transfers only account for 32.5% of income for the province, much lower than your stated 40%. We have solid agricultural industries, aerospace, transportation, logistics, and food industries. These are all viable and stable industries because we will always need them no matter what. As for financial investors and speculators, they make money out of thin air that is nothing more than a change of numbers on some bank's data base. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that there is some use for the financial industry and I'm not about to bash the entire thing, but no one can deny that some forms of labour are more productive in terms of physical and human capital than others.
Interesting.


So, how could something such as CentrePort affect business here?

Would that actually take away from downtown business and development?

Or is it separate in the same sense the Airplane is a separate form of travel from a Car
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  #1918  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2011, 1:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Winnipegger@Heart View Post
Hopefully, as the redevelopment of the Union Bank Tower gets closer to completion, we see more storefronts appearing in the area.
I predict we will get one new storefront as a result of the Royal Bank tower, 2 at most. You can never tell exactly why new storefronts appear but you can make an educated guess, which is what some have done for the Princess Street campus, which is believed to have generated one new business (Subway).
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  #1919  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2011, 1:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Winnipegger View Post
We have solid agricultural industries, aerospace, transportation, logistics, and food industries. These are all viable and stable industries because we will always need them no matter what. As for financial investors and speculators, they make money out of thin air that is nothing more than a change of numbers on some bank's data base. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that there is some use for the financial industry and I'm not about to bash the entire thing, but no one can deny that some forms of labour are more productive in terms of physical and human capital than others.
Take a drive down Main Street from William Avenue, and then hang a right on Portage until you get to about Smith Street or so. Those ornate old tall buildings were not built by the Manitoba food service industry or by a heavily-subsidized aerospace industry; but by Toronto and Montreal banks and Scottish investment capital. The Avenue Building was built purely on speculation; someone believed he could earn a profit by building a four-storey building on Portage Avenue. It worked, and a few years later, they added another three floors.

You're right that banks and the financial sector do create money "out of thin air" (or through interest, etc.) and that money is made available for investments, including building projects, opening businesses. I don't think it is fair to look at the financial sector as self-serving and isolated from other private industries.
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  #1920  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2011, 1:10 AM
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I would like to ask why many members on this forum think that a large public sector is detrimental to the cities overall image and ultimately prosperity? Of course it is no secret that not-for-profit government offices do not generate as much (if any at all) profit, nor do they look as good as a large gleaming skyscraper full of financial market manipulators and insurance brokers, but in the end which is more useful? It seems as if some on this forum want Winnipeg to "look good" in terms of a shiny new skyline, dense downtown, and active nightlife, but they believe that will come when the big banks settle down here and the major insurance brokers call this place home.
I agree that we shouldn't automatically dislike the fact that the public sector plays a big part in this city. It's true that in the absence of a strong performing market, govt. has in some ways kept areas from emptying completely.

I say we embrace it - after all, it doesn't happen like this in every city, and it's been happening for so long that maybe it's a part of our culture like kubasa and mosquitoes.
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