2010 Vancouver Olympic & Paralympic Super-Thread

[SpongeG]

i think you have to put emotions aside and look at the numbers and other factors in regards to the games

my personal thing is - most of the sports are for what i would call the rich or people who have money, none of the sports are that cheap for recreation, skiing is expensive for instance - sports at the olympic level summer and winter are out of the reach of most people - other than running anyone can do that & doesn't require much expense - good luck to those who can do it - only recently have Canadians been able to get the support they need as more corporations step in and help em out - without that most of them couldn't get to the games i am sure that is true for most countries and results in the recent games show that with support the athletes can get great results

anyway I think in the end the benefits of hosting will have some affect and help out but its going to be a look back kind of thing i don't think we will feel it till years later the economy here isn't doing that well - i wonder what will happen when the people who had jobs for 2 or 3 months go back out there looking for jobs which didn't really exist before the games

as for the olympics they have a trace of the human feeling to them still i guess, the support and outpouring of emotion for the death of the athlete who had it happenned anytime else would have been a mention in a sports report not the headlines but tied to the olympics everyone seemed to feel it showed that it can do what they are suppossed to - bring people together

but i think the olympics are just too corporate and too far away from what they used to be and thats kinda sad to see them go that way and are easy to dislike for that

I never got to vote since only vancouverites did but i would have voted no. but i accept that we got em and will support that fact - i think the expense will probably be worth it - I also think if it were not for the games we wouldn't have gotten all the things like a new convention centre and canada line done so quickly and thats somethings I can enjoy even though as a taxpayer kinda sucks but thats what taxes are for - I would rather tax money go to the greater good than supporting some of the things tax money goes too such as free housing that idea is ridiculous to me - you get back what you put in - demanding it is selfish

the money involved - a lot came from the private sector and would have never gone towards social housing or any of these demands that the protesters want unfortunately they can't seem to see that fact

things could happen that we have no clue about - such as samsung execs being so impressed with the city and whatever decide that they want to invest here who knows

i don't think i make any sense but the "burden" is worth it in the long run

yes $6 billion could be spend differently but it would leave someone out no one is ever satisifed we/society is a selfish self centered bunch at the best of times

[entheosfog]

Originally Posted by Country

It seems like most of the sentiment on these boards has been pro-Olympics. I too am a fan and devoted follower of the Olympics, am excited they're in Canada, and am a believer in the Olympic spirit and the great opportunities the Games present.

However, I must admit that the anti-Olympics side present compelling arguments, raising issues regarding financial cost, taxpayer burden, environmental degradation, social upheaval, etc., etc.

So for those who are well acquainted with these arguments against it, yet still support the Games... how do you reconcile between these conflicting things?

I acknowledge and sympathize with many of the issues raised, yet as a lifelong fan of the Olympics I can't bring myself to be against them. While I hate that sensitive wilderness was destroyed to build the Sea to Sky Highway, or that accelerated gentrification is encroaching on the most vulnerable in the Downtown Eastside, I remain a devoted supporter of the Games.

I know my own opinions contradict each other, and that makes me a hypocrite, and I know there are many others like me. So how do you justify the Games? What trumps all these arguments against it to validate its coming to Vancouver? Your thoughts would be most appreciated....

it's almost like you read my mind! Many a time, I find myself somewhere in the middle. I've always watched and loved the Olympics, at least the competition aspect. I'm not a sports fan but I love watching the winter sports I never watch any other times. I experienced the '88 games in Calgary as a kid and it was great. But I also think of the huge cost of the games and the inconvenience to the everyman/everywoman who lives in the city and has no choice but to work and try to continue their daily routine. Or people like me who are getting their hours scaled back cause many of our customer are closed for the games. Or being 'suggested' to take vacation days. Hrm.
I mean, some of the anti-Olympic arguments and sentiment is a little far off from what I think but sometimes I find myself looking forward to March and the end of the games.
Having said all that, I really like how there are a myriad of free things to do in the city and I also like all the art installations and the like that have gone up in the city. Also, I find the atmosphere and the 'buzz' of the city to be exciting. I like going downtown to check things out (as I did tonight, pics to follow!) but then I just end up getting annoyed at the crowds and the crowded buses. But I knew what I was getting myself into.
I'm a walking contradiction and always will be! Ha, my thoughts on things, there ya go.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Country

It seems like most of the sentiment on these boards has been pro-Olympics. I too am a fan and devoted follower of the Olympics, am excited they're in Canada, and am a believer in the Olympic spirit and the great opportunities the Games present.

However, I must admit that the anti-Olympics side present compelling arguments, raising issues regarding financial cost, taxpayer burden, environmental degradation, social upheaval, etc., etc.

So for those who are well acquainted with these arguments against it, yet still support the Games... how do you reconcile between these conflicting things?

I acknowledge and sympathize with many of the issues raised, yet as a lifelong fan of the Olympics I can't bring myself to be against them. While I hate that sensitive wilderness was destroyed to build the Sea to Sky Highway, or that accelerated gentrification is encroaching on the most vulnerable in the Downtown Eastside, I remain a devoted supporter of the Games.

I know my own opinions contradict each other, and that makes me a hypocrite, and I know there are many others like me. So how do you justify the Games? What trumps all these arguments against it to validate its coming to Vancouver? Your thoughts would be most appreciated....

Much of your concerns are based on half-truths propelled by anti-Games activists and media looking for a good story to report...

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by johnjimbc

I really don't think anyone here is going to want to hash back through the arguments against the Vancouver games, especially based on a rather vague request from a visitor.

What social upheaval has the Olympics caused? No, not some vague 1 + 1 = 3000 argument. What actual social "upheaval" has been caused by these Games?

What environmental "degradation" has occurred? A widened road? A single passage over a ridge (with special animal-life corridor tunnels built into the design I hasten to add). Does a new transit line not in some way compensate for the supposed "degradation"? This isn't the oil sands so you'll have to explain the term "degradation" and how exactly it applies to the Vancouver Olympics.

AS for finances and tax burden. Taxes fund many things. The decision to host these Games was made years ago. They are underway now. They have already provided economic activity for the province, and their legacy will yield benefits for years to come. Canada has just spent boatloads of money on "stimulus" projects across the country, which many regard as a positive undertaking. Yet somehow the economic stimulus provided by the Olympics is naturally assumed to be "wasteful." Were all those jobs to prepare and execute the Games not of any economic benefit? Is the new transit line a waste? Is improving the deadliest highway in the province wasteful? Are the new community centres provided by the new facilities built in Vancouver and surrounding communities not of ANY compensatory benefit? Is turning a desolate, unproductive stretch of brown-zone former industrial site along False Creek into a new, green, high-density productive neighborhood a "bad" use of funds - particularly given that the neighborhood units are being sold at market rate to recoup most if not all the funds expended on the project?

A bunch of thugs just ran around with masks breaking windows in our city this morning yelling things like "down with the state" so I'm frankly not in the mood to discuss the merits of their "compelling" arguments.

And if you want to, I think you'll need to provide much greater detail on what you find so compelling about their bold stance to be "against" an event in works for nearly a decade and occurring as we discuss the matter.

If someone else wants to have a go at it, have fun. But I'm done playing that game.

P.S. If you are going to regurgitate the entire sad discussion, can you PLEASE start a new thread so the rest of us can ignore it?

Worth repeating!

[ozonemania]

Originally Posted by Country

It seems like most of the sentiment on these boards has been pro-Olympics. I too am a fan and devoted follower of the Olympics, am excited they're in Canada, and am a believer in the Olympic spirit and the great opportunities the Games present.

However, I must admit that the anti-Olympics side present compelling arguments, raising issues regarding financial cost, taxpayer burden, environmental degradation, social upheaval, etc., etc.

So for those who are well acquainted with these arguments against it, yet still support the Games... how do you reconcile between these conflicting things?

I acknowledge and sympathize with many of the issues raised, yet as a lifelong fan of the Olympics I can't bring myself to be against them. While I hate that sensitive wilderness was destroyed to build the Sea to Sky Highway, or that accelerated gentrification is encroaching on the most vulnerable in the Downtown Eastside, I remain a devoted supporter of the Games.

I know my own opinions contradict each other, and that makes me a hypocrite, and I know there are many others like me. So how do you justify the Games? What trumps all these arguments against it to validate its coming to Vancouver? Your thoughts would be most appreciated....

For me, there are few things:

1) The money invested in these games would not have been available to spend in the first place if we did not have an event to spend it on. It's not like there was this magic pile of money lying somewhere that could be spent on anything, and we just happened to choose to use it for the Olympics instead of buying homes for homeless people.

2) Sunk costs. The ball got rolling long time ago. Funding was committed long time ago. Once you start a project, you just have to follow through. Even if you somehow stopped it, the costs to break contracts, commitments and goodwill would far exceed the costs of actually going through with it.

3) I get tired of hearing anti-Olympic arguments that are purely based on monetary costs. If you think about it, you can use costs to justify not spending money on just about everything. So to argue against the Olympics based on cost is just deceptive. Now to argue against the Olympics based on VALUE, that is a different argument.

4) If we're talking about value, I can think of many Canadians who have benefitted and will benefit from this endeavour, and I'm not just talking about the Olympic organization and their corporate sponsors. Just because they win doesn't mean everyone else loses. It's not a zero-sum game.

[entheosfog]

Some pictures from tonight....

Sears, finally doing something useful. Also, it astounds me that people are still driving around downtown. Maybe they really really need to drive that badly but I wouldn't recommend it around these parts:


A mob of people, ready to cross:


Taken from up high at Winners, where it was nice and quiet and dry:


I gave up trying to walk any further south down Granville:


People everywhere!




Taken earlier today, another ad space being used for someone's photograph. I love these!:

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by johnjimbc

I really don't think anyone here is going to want to hash back through the arguments against the Vancouver games, especially based on a rather vague request from a visitor.
.............
P.S. If you are going to regurgitate the entire sad discussion, can you PLEASE start a new thread so the rest of us can ignore it?

You're right, nobody here wants to hash through all the arguments against the Games.

And you won't hear me regurgitating these arguments - yes, i did make a vague mention of some of them: environmental "degradation", social "upheaval", etc. to set the discussion up. They weren't arguments invented by me, and I'm not here to support or defend them - these are buzz terms that are often thrown around too freely, whether they have merit behind them or not.

My invitation was for those, already familiar with these arguments (so we don't have to re-hash them to death) yet still supportive of the Games, to comment on how they reconcile what might be "good" about the Games with what might be "bad".

I guess I was looking for answers on a personal level, and not necessarily long-winded, technical responses. At a personal level, I feel the Games can contribute to significant and valuable "nation building".... that the Vancouver Olympics can potentially have a profound effect on Canada's history, culture, and our constant effort to articulate a national identity. That, and the coming together of the world in general that the Games facilitates is simply spectacular.

These are the kind of things I'd love for us to discus, and I think they're worth discussing, no?

But thank you for bringing up the False Creek development and the Canada Line that the Olympics expedited - these are excellent examples of worthwhile city building triggered by the Games.

And thank you to everyone else for your responses, your thoughts have been most interesting to me!

[Yume-sama]

Was at Robson Square a little while ago, and some people with an accent that I can't place were talking about how this party kicks Athens right in the you know what. Way better. It made me smile It is indeed crazy. Heck, it's 1:15AM and it's extremely loud still I have a feeling this will go on all night, and only get crazier once the hockey tournament starts. Also some people with their young kids are still out, crazy!

[SpongeG]

cool

I still have to get down and experience it - my friend and some of his friends went down last night - they were going to drive from surrey but my friend said no take skytrain, so they did and were glas as when they got down there - well after 10 pm they said it was a zoo and were amazed at how busy it was

[SpongeG]

from facebook:

HOUSE OF SWITZERLAND Tomorrow is VALENTINES DAY! :-) In Vancouver, from 12 – 1pm a panel of celebrity judges will taste the three finalist dishes and select a winner. The House of Switzerland in Vancouver will be open to the public and Lindt & Sprungli will be offering free samples of Lindt chocolate.

[SpongeG]

far coast coffee has a page up on youtube

posting videos of what people think of their coffee... some are cool in the sense that you can get the general publics opinion on vancouver and the ceremonies..

• Video Link

• Video Link

• Video Link

[Yume-sama]

There must be some drama goin' down Helicopters and sirens. At 2AM. How fun~!

[MechMike]

I wonder what store they threw another newspaper bin this time.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Country

It seems like most of the sentiment on these boards has been pro-Olympics. I too am a fan and devoted follower of the Olympics, am excited they're in Canada, and am a believer in the Olympic spirit and the great opportunities the Games present.

However, I must admit that the anti-Olympics side present compelling arguments, raising issues regarding financial cost, taxpayer burden, environmental degradation, social upheaval, etc., etc.

So for those who are well acquainted with these arguments against it, yet still support the Games... how do you reconcile between these conflicting things?

I acknowledge and sympathize with many of the issues raised, yet as a lifelong fan of the Olympics I can't bring myself to be against them. While I hate that sensitive wilderness was destroyed to build the Sea to Sky Highway, or that accelerated gentrification is encroaching on the most vulnerable in the Downtown Eastside, I remain a devoted supporter of the Games.

I know my own opinions contradict each other, and that makes me a hypocrite, and I know there are many others like me. So how do you justify the Games? What trumps all these arguments against it to validate its coming to Vancouver? Your thoughts would be most appreciated....

Just curious, do you realize that the ANNUAL BC budget is now just a hair bellow $40 billion. If you take the extreme "guesstimations" at the money "sunk" into the games, you hear terms like $6 billion. We've been getting ready for the last 6 years now.

That works out to a worst case scenario of $1 billion a year. So around 1/40th of our budget from the last 6 years has been spent on the games. And that INCLUDES long term infrastructure investments that will serve the BC Taxpayer for DECADES! Like highways, mass transit, convention centers, and community centers. Those are things the people of BC get to use forever. The games will be gone on the 1st, but 5 years from now you will still be able to take the Canada Line and go swimming at the Olympic Center, or play Basketball or Hockey at the Oval.

And the the cost of actually running the games (some infrastructure and security aside) is paid for entirely by the sale tickets, the sale of TV rights and sponsorships. So if the games seem a bit too "commercial" or expensive, well that's what we give up so that the games don't cost the taxpayer an extra $1.5 billion. I'll gladly stomach another Coke or RBC Commercial when you consider how much money they have actually given to VANOC (IE the BC Taxpayer).

Things like gentrification happen anyway. Woodwards has been in the works since 1995, and it isn't an Olympic Venue. Without the media spotlight on Vancouver, judging our every move the last 5 years, we probably would have let concord pacific wipe the DTES off the face of the map by now. Instead we spend $1 million each and every day in the DTES. That works out each day to over $200 spent per person in the area in need. We could cut out the middle man and just pay them better than minimum wage to be poor and SAVE money. These problems run deeper than ANYTHING the Olympics could ever cause even if we were getting ready for the last 50 years.

[SpongeG]

Johnny Weir staying in Olympic Village because of anti-fur activists

By Chris Chase

American figure skater Johnny Weir will stay in the Olympic Village because he's concerned about "very serious threats" from anti-fur activists.

The medal hopeful had planned to stay in a hotel during the Games, but it would have been too difficult to arrange adequate security. Though there are no indications that any of the verbal and written threats from extremists were credible, Weir's decision to stay in the more secure village was an obvious choice.

He's right to take extra precautions during his time in Vancouver. Though the odds of one of these threats actually coming to pass are low, there's no reason for Weir to open himself up to the possibility. For peace of mind alone, staying in a secured Olympic Village is worth it.

At last month's U.S. Nationals, Weir earned the scorn of anti-fur protesters when he wore a white tuft of fox fur on his shoulder. He was defiant in the face of the criticism at first but later relented.

Weir has long been an enemy of animal-rights groups because of his costumes. It was a disappointment when he finally caved to their pressure. It's his job to look flamboyant. There's no need to listen to a small but vocal group who don't like it. Nothing would ever get accomplished if everyone in the world had to sign off on everything first.

Though those making threats to Weir are but an infinitesimal part of the animal-rights groups, they are a stain on the movement. Maybe PETA and Friends of Animals should spend more energy denouncing those who threaten rather than those who wear.

...

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vanc...Olympic-village-because-o?urn=oly,219489

[delboy]

Originally Posted by johnjimbc

I really don't think anyone here is going to want to hash back through the arguments against the Vancouver games, especially based on a rather vague request from a visitor.

What social upheaval has the Olympics caused? No, not some vague 1 + 1 = 3000 argument. What actual social "upheaval" has been caused by these Games?

What environmental "degradation" has occurred? A widened road? A single passage over a ridge (with special animal-life corridor tunnels built into the design I hasten to add). Does a new transit line not in some way compensate for the supposed "degradation"? This isn't the oil sands so you'll have to explain the term "degradation" and how exactly it applies to the Vancouver Olympics.

AS for finances and tax burden. Taxes fund many things. The decision to host these Games was made years ago. They are underway now. They have already provided economic activity for the province, and their legacy will yield benefits for years to come. Canada has just spent boatloads of money on "stimulus" projects across the country, which many regard as a positive undertaking. Yet somehow the economic stimulus provided by the Olympics is naturally assumed to be "wasteful." Were all those jobs to prepare and execute the Games not of any economic benefit? Is the new transit line a waste? Is improving the deadliest highway in the province wasteful? Are the new community centres provided by the new facilities built in Vancouver and surrounding communities not of ANY compensatory benefit? Is turning a desolate, unproductive stretch of brown-zone former industrial site along False Creek into a new, green, high-density productive neighborhood a "bad" use of funds - particularly given that the neighborhood units are being sold at market rate to recoup most if not all the funds expended on the project?

A bunch of thugs just ran around with masks breaking windows in our city this morning yelling things like "down with the state" so I'm frankly not in the mood to discuss the merits of their "compelling" arguments.

And if you want to, I think you'll need to provide much greater detail on what you find so compelling about their bold stance to be "against" an event in works for nearly a decade and occurring as we discuss the matter.

If someone else wants to have a go at it, have fun. But I'm done playing that game.

P.S. If you are going to regurgitate the entire sad discussion, can you PLEASE start a new thread so the rest of us can ignore it?

stella reply, stella!

[delboy]

Originally Posted by Country

It seems like most of the sentiment on these boards has been pro-Olympics. I too am a fan and devoted follower of the Olympics, am excited they're in Canada, and am a believer in the Olympic spirit and the great opportunities the Games present.

However, I must admit that the anti-Olympics side present compelling arguments, raising issues regarding financial cost, taxpayer burden, environmental degradation, social upheaval, etc., etc.

So for those who are well acquainted with these arguments against it, yet still support the Games... how do you reconcile between these conflicting things?

I acknowledge and sympathize with many of the issues raised, yet as a lifelong fan of the Olympics I can't bring myself to be against them. While I hate that sensitive wilderness was destroyed to build the Sea to Sky Highway, or that accelerated gentrification is encroaching on the most vulnerable in the Downtown Eastside, I remain a devoted supporter of the Games.

I know my own opinions contradict each other, and that makes me a hypocrite, and I know there are many others like me. So how do you justify the Games? What trumps all these arguments against it to validate its coming to Vancouver? Your thoughts would be most appreciated....

GO CANADA GO!

[entheosfog]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Was at Robson Square a little while ago, and some people with an accent that I can't place were talking about how this party kicks Athens right in the you know what. Way better. It made me smile It is indeed crazy. Heck, it's 1:15AM and it's extremely loud still I have a feeling this will go on all night, and only get crazier once the hockey tournament starts. Also some people with their young kids are still out, crazy!

I think without the rain it will be ever crazier, too

[whatnext]

Interesting, this poll got lost in Friday's frenzy, but it shows that Metro Vancouver residents support for the Games is still tepid:

63% expect the games to run a deficit
83% believe the Games are planned to benefit elite members of Society
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010w...er+Games+support+poll/2554462/story.html

[SpongeG]

watching the news they showed a girl who lived in kits - when i say girl i say a kits type in her 20's - she said she had no interest in the olympics and was not really interested in them and than she said when the flame ran through her street she went out and saw it and got caught up in all the excitement and got really excited about the games and said she really was loving it all and was excited and interested in them because of the torch