The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by theman23

Twice the price and 300 km range would still have it be somewhat competitive with North American BEVs. Fifty percent would more would be a bargain.

edit: conversion to CAD probably changes things, but still an interesting vehicle.

Absolutely. Not sure I'd trust a Chinese vehicle myself (not in the least because of concerns on data privacy), but these vehicles are absolutely a threat to the legacy OEMs as they steal marketshare outside North America. This is why, when oil and gas bulls, say the developing world will have substantially growing demand for oil, I'm skeptical. I think they skip ICEVs the way they skipped land lines.

I think the coming lower priced Tesla and upstart EV competitors (like Fisker) are what change the game in North America. I fully expect that Tesla hatchback to come in at US$25K with at least 250 miles range in the base model, in 2025. I also expect we'll see all the other Tesla offerings substantially standardize around 320 miles/500 km as the base range offering in 2025 when this entry car is announced. A Golf sized car built with large castings could probably offer 500 km of range with a 45 kWh battery for US$30k with peformance and tech features better than a GTI. Given than a GTI is US$25k base, a lot of gas cars will be in trouble.

[whatnext]

Volkswagen chooses ON for battery plant:

Volkswagen to open first North American EV battery plant in St. Thomas, Ont.
The deal has been in the works since April 2022, according to government officials
Colin Butler · CBC News · Posted: Mar 13, 2023

The Ontario government has announced the construction of a Volkswagen electric vehicle (EV) battery manufacturing plant in St. Thomas, on Talbot Line near Yarmouth Centre Road, close to the city's airport.

The announcement was released Monday by the office of Vic Fedeli, the province's minister of economic development and trade and is the first public confirmation of the deal that has long rumoured to be in the works.

The company said production is set to begin in 2027, calling it its first overseas "gigafactory" for battery cell manufacturing.

The province recently passed legislation that would allow the City of St Thomas to annex 607 hectares of farmland from the Municipality of Central Elgin with the aim to turn the parcel into industrial lands as part of what the province called an investment "mega-site." ...


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...ario-1.6777144

[Truenorth00]

Wow. That's huge. Good to see Ontario really getting back in to the manufacturing game.

[1overcosc]

Good to see the province supporting these investments with legislation to remove planning hurdles.

[travis3000]

Fedeli travelled to Germany to meet VW officials in October. Champagne visited VW this past fall as part of the push to seal the deal.

Trudeau was recently making calls to VW executives to seal the deal while Ford reportedly hosted company executives during a visit to Ontario to consider prospective sites.

“This is the result of an extraordinary effort by Francois-Philippe Champagne to court the first new carmaker to Canada in 35 years,” Volpe said. “It’s an indelible victory for Vic Fedeli’s legacy of driving down the cost of business where it counts in Ontario.”
-Flavio Volpe, president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...te-near-london

[Djeffery]

2 different news sources, 2 different locations given for this plant. Wonder which is the correct one? As far as I know, the site the CBC article gives above in this thread wasn't in the 1500 acres put together for this bid.

[Acajack]

Québec announced $60M to increase the number of public fast charging stations by 30%.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Good to see the province supporting these investments with legislation to remove planning hurdles.

This VW plant is scheduled to open in 2027/2028. The recently announced Tesla plant in Mexico is scheduled to open in "18 - 24 months". And that plant will be shipping half a million cars, not just batteries. For legacy automakers to survive they have to get better at putting these things up and our authorities have to get better at getting approvals in place and building supporting infrastructure (roads, rails, power lines, etc).

[homebucket]

Looking good.

• Video Link

[homebucket]

2024 Kia EV9 First Look: 3 Rows With Massive Presence
Much of what everyone loved about the stunning EV9 Concept will make it to the production version of Kia's new three-row EV SUV.
Kristen Lee Mar 14, 2023

The all-new Kia EV9 will fill a spot that desperately needs filling: the all-electric, three-row, mass-appeal SUV that has somehow not yet arrived. Sure, there are electric three-rows from Tesla, Mercedes, and Rivian, but one that regular buyers with regular checkbooks would be interested in? This will be the first. And it looks fantastic.

Kia's doing that slow burn thing where it doesn't reveal its whole hand at once, so we'll have to wait a bit longer to find out how much the EV9 will cost and its power and range figures, but a recent and exclusive first look at the vehicle in Seoul yielded insight into exactly which aspects of the stunning EV9 concept from 2021 will make it to production. Kia spokespeople would like us to tell you what you're seeing today isn't quite the production version just yet, but it's very, very close.

...

The model we viewed sports second-row captain's chairs—comfortable, as you'd expect—but these have an extra trick up their sleeves: They swivel 180 degrees to face the third row. Getting them to do so took some finagling on the Kia PR team's part, but once they were finished, you had what was essentially a mobile social pod. It's unclear if the swivel seats will make it to the U.S. market, although here's hoping they do.

Interestingly, and perhaps disappointing to some, the EV9 will have two third-row seats instead of three, but they are wide and spacious, so these passengers won't feel too cramped, and owing to the electric platform's flat floor, your knees aren't raised as if you were riding in the third row of a Telluride or Kia Sorento. The cargo area is decently sized, even with the third row upright.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024...t-look-review/

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by homebucket

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024...t-look-review/

The all-new Kia EV9 will fill a spot that desperately needs filling: the all-electric, three-row, mass-appeal SUV that has somehow not yet arrived.

FWIW:

The climate impact of bigger electric vehicles like the GMC Hummer EV can be equal to that caused by the emissions from small gasoline-powered cars, data from the MIT Trancik Lab shows.

Larger, heavier EVs produce a greater environmental impact than their diminutive relatives, and the GMC Hummer EV weighs in at more than 4.5 tons in some configurations.

Large electric pickups and SUVs like the GMC Hummer EV are the main culprits when it comes to matching small ICE vehicles for pollution, the New York Times reports. EVs do not directly generate emissions, but manufacturing processes for both the vehicles and their batteries as well as the electricity generation providing them with power all release pollutants into the atmosphere.

This isn’t the first time the GMC Hummer EV has drawn criticism for its environmental footprint and other perceived problems. The American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy (ACEEE) cited the immense weight of the GMC Hummer EV as making it more polluting than a Chevy Malibu, generating 341 grams of C02 emissions per mile driven compared to the Chevy Malibu’s 320 grams. The Malibu’s emissions come from the tailpipe while the Hummer’s are “upstream emissions” from fossil fuel use at power plants.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/03...-powered-cars/

Emphasis added mine.

[homebucket]

^ Are you saying consumers shouldn't want to buy 3 row SUVs and manufacturers shouldn't build and market them?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by homebucket

^ Are you saying consumers shouldn't want to buy 3 row SUVs and manufacturers shouldn't build and market them?

I'm posting a link stating that heavier EVs are as inefficient as lighter ICE vehicles. EVs are a big improvement over ICE but 1) They can be just as inefficient as what they're replacing and 2) They still don't solve the larger problem of cities (and our lives in general) being oriented around personal vehicles. The former is only a bandaid for the latter.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm posting a link stating that heavier EVs are as inefficient as lighter ICE vehicles. EVs are a big improvement over ICE but 1) They can be just as inefficient as what they're replacing and 2) They still don't solve the problem of cities being oriented around personal vehicles.

Captain Obvious coming through!

So what would be your message to would be 3 row SUV EV buyers then?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Captain Obvious coming through!

Can't say i'm excited about EVs becoming as grotesquely large as their ICE cousins.

Originally Posted by homebucket

So what would be your message to would be 3 row SUV EV buyers then?

How often to seven people sit in your vehicle? Do you need a vehicle that large? What does it do for you that a smaller car doesn't? Etc.

If they're going to be allowed to exist they should be taxed on weight. I think others have spoken on this previously.

[GreaterMontréal]

Quebec has a green powerplant, I expect some big projects to be announced soon for the province.

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This VW plant is scheduled to open in 2027/2028. The recently announced Tesla plant in Mexico is scheduled to open in "18 - 24 months". And that plant will be shipping half a million cars, not just batteries. For legacy automakers to survive they have to get better at putting these things up and our authorities have to get better at getting approvals in place and building supporting infrastructure (roads, rails, power lines, etc).

Yeah that Tesla gigafactory plant could have been in Canada. We were competing with Mexico for it... I guess they won haha. I've heard Tesla still plans to set up a battery plant in Quebec though.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Can't say i'm excited about EVs becoming as grotesquely large as their ICE cousins.


How often to seven people sit in your vehicle? Do you need a vehicle that large? What does it do for you that a smaller car doesn't? Etc.

If they're going to be allowed to exist they should be taxed on weight. I think others have spoken on this previously.

I’m assuming their answer would be yes. I would imagine there is some conscious decision that goes into picking a 3 row SUV over a 2 row one.

I also would not be surprised if people in the market for 3 row EV SUVs most likely were driving 3 row ICE SUVs prior. They’re probably not coming from a Mazda Miata.

[Nouvellecosse]

I'm not surprised that very large EVs aren't necessarily more efficient than some small ICE cars. I've talked about that with people before on this very thread. The take away is that,

- If you can afford an EV instead of a similar ICE vehicle, then it's the more sustainable choice.
- A smaller vehicle of the same powertrain type will be more sustainable than its larger equivalent
- Driving less is better than driving more regardless of the vehicle type
- Not owning a vehicle or owning fewer vehicles is the best overall from an environmental perspective

So don't replace your ICE vehicle with a larger or much more powerful EV thinking that being electrified nullifies all environmental impact. But if you've decided to buy a large and powerful vehicle because you feel you need or want it, then it is much better for it to be an EV. The environmental impact of a small ICE vehicle is much better than that of an ICE suburban or Hummer regardless.

Also, minivans tend to be more efficient than SUVs, so if you do need lots of cargo and passenger capacity that would be a more sustainable option.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by travis3000

Yeah that Tesla gigafactory plant could have been in Canada. We were competing with Mexico for it... I guess they won haha. I've heard Tesla still plans to set up a battery plant in Quebec though.

It still bothers me that we don't have any major automakers. It would be different if we didn't have an auto sector at all due to it just not being in our economic comparative advantage, but clearly we do want that sector and are always competing for foreign investments.

At least we have Magna I suppose...