Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by TRex

Plus, Utah Legislature just tweaked the law for the Power District zone to allow stadiums with as few as 18,000 seats. Now it all makes sense. Jazz and Utah Hockey don't allow for many other events to be scheduled in the Delta Center. Now UofU can rent out new Huntsman Center for concerts etc. without the negative campus impact. Perhaps even sell beer for non university events. Am I crazy?

Good thoughts. I think that provision was removed from the final bill but this would make some sense of why it was there in the first place.

[Makid]

The portion of the bill allowing funds to construct smaller arenas was removed. They will however be able to access the funds earlier to construct parking, public amenities, and even start work on the MLB stadium.

I do think that it would be good for the UofU to look at off campus locations for the new arena. As mentioned the Fair Park/Power District would be great. With 2 Trax lines, 1 directly connecting to the U, plus close proximity to FrontRunner, this would be a great location. This would also allow the U to build additional student housing on campus to help meet the goal of 40,000 active students with the majority living on campus.

This could however just be a dream as for some reason, I expect them to build the new arena near the Rice Eccles stadium. Maybe as part of updating the parking for the stadium.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by TRex

Plus, Utah Legislature just tweaked the law for the Power District zone to allow stadiums with as few as 18,000 seats. Now it all makes sense. Jazz and Utah Hockey don't allow for many other events to be scheduled in the Delta Center. Now UofU can rent out new Huntsman Center for concerts etc. without the negative campus impact. Perhaps even sell beer for non university events. Am I crazy?

I assume it will go where the parking lot of RES is. Then they will build campus housing where the H.C. is now that would double as an olympic village.

[Atlas]

Opinion: The University of Utah has a master planning problem

[Orlando]

/\/\/\ This was an interesting read, and I tend to agree with it. Why isn't the current masterplan trying to knit into the City edge along 1300 east? Look at what Georgia Tech is doing integrating into midtown Atlanta, or Arizona State in Tempe?

[Comrade]

Because much of the area is a mix of property ownership.

The Meldrum House, which is the three-story building on the corner of 1300 East and 200 South is owned, I believe, by Cowboy Partners and for a time (maybe still currently) used to house actors for Pioneer Theatre Company.

Across the street, the Catholic Diocese owns the land there. It's probably not feasible to build out to 1300 East and create what the U can create on the Huntsman site, especially since it's already privately developed. Unless the U is committed to buying up all that property and then demolishing a bunch of established businesses and housing ... I don't think it'll work.

[Orlando]

All these buildings along the freeway edge are either with Georgia Tech or companies related to it. The main campus is on the other side of the freeway, but they found a way to integrate into the urban fabric of midtown Atlanta.

https://realestate.gatech.edu/technology-square

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Orlando

/\/\/\ This was an interesting read, and I tend to agree with it. Why isn't the current masterplan trying to knit into the City edge along 1300 east? Look at what Georgia Tech is doing integrating into midtown Atlanta, or Arizona State in Tempe?

I wonder how much Utah's insulated culture plays a role. When I worked at BYU, when a problem popped up in a meeting, there was rarely ever a time where someone would ask, "I wonder what other universities do?"

Granted, the U is less isolated than BYU. But the culture of looking internally for solutions, instead of exploring externally... could play a role, maybe?

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by i-215

I wonder how much Utah's insulated culture plays a role. When I worked at BYU, when a problem popped up in a meeting, there was rarely ever a time where someone would ask, "I wonder what other universities do?"

Granted, the U is less isolated than BYU. But the culture of looking internally for solutions, instead of exploring externally... could play a role, maybe?

Having attended both the U and CU Boulder myself, I think there is some truth to this. The U still does have an "island" or "ivory tower" effect (both psychologically and physically), perhaps partly because it's a commuter school. They are sort of trying to change that but this plan isn't really addressing the lack of cohesion with the wider city. They seem to think some new dorms and a better Union building or something are going to create "College Town Magic", but I think much of the magic of a college town comes from symbiosis and synergy with the town, like in Boulder. SLC will never be a college town but there are other big cities with better integration with their universities, like Madison or Minneapolis.

The other factor here is expedience, like the article says. These projects at the U seem to go from proposal to construction very quickly. The administration sees an opportunity and a funding source, possibly a big donation or something, and they find a piece of open land to plop down a new building. This one is the latest travesty:



Cool design, sorta, but has absolutely no interaction with the buildings or pathways around it, and it sits on a parcel that was master planned to be an open field.

[delts145]

Atlas, Orlando, and any others who have an opinion on the matter. Would you say that the 400 South TRAX corridor, particularly east and west of 700 East, south to Trolley Sq., and north two or three blocks have the most viable SLC/U. of U. symbiotic potential? I have always looked to the TRAX corridor as having a potentially incredible future bond connection with SLC, something even on a grander scale than Westwood Village/Blvd. and UCLA. They are making stabs at it with attractive student housing around the Trolley Square area. I think it's just a matter of evolution before the 400 South corridor reaches its true potential, adding more attractive housing and walkable TOD commercial. At least, I hope the TRAX corridor continues to evolve even more quickly than it has over the past 15 years. IMO, the 700 East, and 400 South intersection should be the heart of an incredible City/University Village. Hopefully, they won't allow developers to turn the former Village Inn site into low-rise townhomes. That would show a complete lack of vision by the city at that location.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Orlando

All these buildings along the freeway edge are either with Georgia Tech or companies related to it. The main campus is on the other side of the freeway, but they found a way to integrate into the urban fabric of midtown Atlanta.

https://realestate.gatech.edu/technology-square

This is a really bad comparison.

Midtown Atlanta already had a substantial urban fabric - it was basically its own downtown, not a neighborhood primarily made up of low and mid-density homes and businesses like we see around the 1300 East. It's far easier to integrate into that fabric than what we have just west of the U.

After all, this was Midtown in 1991:



Comparing it to Georgia Tech would work more if the U literally hugged downtown Salt Lake. As the area Georgia Tech has done well integrating with was largely operating like a downtown.

Here's another photo from 1990:



This is probably a great example of why it worked: you already have an established urban fabric with multiple high-rises - plus undeveloped land and underdeveloped structures (either commercial or retail).

That's not the case with the 1300 East area. The land is pretty well developed and it's not extremely urban to begin with + it's mostly residential.

The U is just in a tough place where it's not likely to expand into an already well established area of the city, especially one that is mostly made up of residential.

Because that's what it is.

This is the only part of that area that isn't mostly residential:



You could strip out every business there for sure and turn it into a mini-SugarHouse but I'm not sure that really is the answer at creating a legitimate college town atmosphere. That's a really small amount of space.

And certainly nothing like we see from Midtown Atlanta.

[Atlas]

Are we forgetting about this proposal, circa 2021?

My guess is that the NIMBY response probably killed this, but I think this sort of thing would get a lot farther along with explicit support/interest from the university. There's also the RES parking lot right there, which has sat empty for 15+ years since they were last planning to do something with it.

Originally Posted by delts145

Atlas, Orlando, and any others who have an opinion on the matter. Would you say that the 400 South TRAX corridor, particularly east and west of 700 East, south to Trolley Sq., and north two or three blocks have the most viable SLC/U. of U. symbiotic potential? I have always looked to the TRAX corridor as having a potentially incredible future bond connection with SLC, something even on a grander scale than Westwood Village/Blvd. and UCLA. They are making stabs at it with attractive student housing around the Trolley Square area. I think it's just a matter of evolution before the 400 South corridor reaches its true potential, adding more attractive housing and walkable TOD commercial. At least, I hope the TRAX corridor continues to evolve even more quickly than it has over the past 15 years. IMO, the 700 East, and 400 South intersection should be the heart of an incredible City/University Village. Hopefully, they won't allow developers to turn the former Village Inn site into low-rise townhomes. That would show a complete lack of vision by the city at that location.

Yes, but the hostility of 400S and 700E to pedestrians probably limits the potential of the corridor. Some people blame the zoning but I think it might have more to do with the size/danger/noise of those two roads (controlled by UDOT). But we are still seeing some bright spots develop.

[Orlando]

Comrade What?! "Totally bad example"?! Not even. It's a great example. There was an existing urban edge on the other side of the freeway that Georgia Tech tapped into. The portion across the freeway from Georgia Tech was dead. I know, because I used to park my car over there and walk over to the campus to grad school. It was a wasteland and even got hit up by male hooker.

The U has an existing urban edge along 1300 east that they can and should tap into.

Also, another good example is the University of Washington and the U District. Great urban vibe along UW's western edge.

[rockies]

I think a problem with the U is that the dorms are far from that 'urban edge.' I even lived on lower campus at Lassonde and I remember it was a trek to get to President's circle for me - let alone for those from upper campus. 1300E is already a fairly vibrant student neighborhood and I agree it just needs the density to propel it... I am really sad about that mass timber proposal cuz it would have been amazing

I found that the lack of units in the area really forced 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc year students to move all across the city as well. I think significantly more density around President's circle/RES would relieve a lot of seasonal rental pressure across the city - especially sugarhouse/the aves/maybe even Millcreek and SSL. I wonder if the U's suburban (for lack of better word) mindset stems from leadership that commutes in and may have commuted in as students as well, I have no idea about that though

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by rockies

I found that the lack of units in the area really forced 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc year students to move all across the city as well. I think significantly more density around President's circle/RES would relieve a lot of seasonal rental pressure across the city - especially sugarhouse/the aves/maybe even Millcreek and SSL. I wonder if the U's suburban (for lack of better word) mindset stems from leadership that commutes in and may have commuted in as students as well, I have no idea about that though

I transferred to UofU and lived on Capitol Hill one year and then Sugarhouse for the other. I honestly had no idea they had student housing. This was in 06-07.

[locolife]

Someone mentioned ASU, they started building schools in downtown Phoenix over 20 years ago. Would U of U ever do that? Moving certain schools to a more urban setting can make sense, like the school of Law for ASU is now downtown which is near the court building. Journalism is also downtown, which puts it near most of the major tv stations for the PHX area.

It's been a big catalyst for other downtown development here, a few already outdated photos of some of area ASU has focused on.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4536128,..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDMxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4534907,..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDMxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[bob rulz]

Another thing to keep in mind about the 1300 E corridor is it's in a local historic district, which means getting approval to tear down any of those historic houses to increase density would likely be very difficult.

There are a few opportunities though. That stretch of 1300 E has 2 suburban-style banks - a Wells Fargo and a Key Bank. Plus there's the abandoned convenience store on the northwest corner of 200 S and 1300 E (does anyone know if that's still abandoned? Haven't been up there in a few months).

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Orlando

What?! "Totally bad example"?! Not even. It's a great example. There was an existing urban edge on the other side of the freeway that Georgia Tech tapped into. The portion across the freeway from Georgia Tech was dead. I know, because I used to park my car over there and walk over to the campus to grad school. It was a wasteland and even got hit up by male hooker.

The U has an existing urban edge along 1300 east that they can and should tap into.

Also, another good example is the University of Washington and the U District. Great urban vibe along UW's western edge.

I don't really see it honestly. This western edge of U of U is pretty sleepy all things considered. What's here - a few shops and a couple of restaurants? Comrade's right - it's heavily residential, mostly low density. And as someone else noted, it's quite far from the dorms. Trekking there from the dorms would be quite the journey. I also attended the U and getting to President's Circle from most places on campus wasn't a very fun experience. I'm not saying that we can't or shouldn't do more there, but I think it's a far cry from being the exciting, vibrant urban edge you envision it to be.

[Orlando]

/\/\/\ Agree to disagree. That edge has the most potential to integrate into the existing urban fabric, especially if they develop the parking lot west of the stadium.

[Comrade]

The exiting urban fabric there is mostly low-density, single-story housing. I'm just confused how you think that's a comparable example to an area of Atlanta that already had high-rises and a significant amount of underdeveloped lots to build on?

I don't think you're familiar with the area you're talking about. Outside domaining and then demolishing hundreds of houses in that area, there's no possible way to integrate into the fabric because the fabric isn't all that decidedly urban or vacant (which makes it easier to build on) - and certainly nowhere near like Midtown Atlanta.

Like I said, if the area was closer to downtown, it'd make more sense. But most everything west of 1300 East between 100 South and 400 South is low-density residential for the most part until you get to about 900 East (and even then, the only consistent non-residential is along 400 South - everything north of that continues to be mostly residential until 700 East).

That's just not an area easily adaptable. Maybe in 100 years but certainly not within the next 25.

Which is why the Huntsman Center area probably makes sense as the 'downtown area' of the campus. It's centrally located and there's still enough land to build on - plus, the U actually owns the land there.