ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[shivtim]

Another view of the new Fuqua Glenwood development. This is a complete slap in the face and middle finger to the Beltline and the people of Atlanta.


source: Curbed

[rmckibben]

"Another view of the new Fuqua Glenwood development. This is a complete slap in the face and middle finger to the Beltline and the people of Atlanta."

I agree. How did this get approved? I understand that these types of developments are needed, even Intown, but permitting this adjacent to the Beltline is criminal.

[skyscraper_inspector]

Originally Posted by rmckibben

"Another view of the new Fuqua Glenwood development. This is a complete slap in the face and middle finger to the Beltline and the people of Atlanta."

I agree. How did this get approved? I understand that these types of developments are needed, even Intown, but permitting this adjacent to the Beltline is criminal.

No one can ever answer this question for me either. How did this get around the Beltline Overlay requirements?

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by skyscraper_inspector

No one can ever answer this question for me either. How did this get around the Beltline Overlay requirements?

I live a couple blocks away and was somewhat involved, it is longer and complex explanation. I will try to type up my understanding of it later today.

[testarossa50]

What a disaster.

Time to stop apologizing for the one just north of I-20 and call for an end to this madness. Intown has more than enough big box retail.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

What a disaster.

Time to stop apologizing for the one just north of I-20 and call for an end to this madness. Intown has more than enough big box retail.

Well, big box retail can be done a lot better than this...it's not all or nothing. Whether you like them or not, they make intown more attractive to a broader range of people. There are plenty of examples of urban designs - they don't even have to come up with it on their own! Publix just built a new store in Winston-Salem with parking underneath, so I don't see why Kroger couldn't do the same here. How about a similar design to the Publix/Target at Lenox? It's not perfect but it's much preferable to this mess.

It's lazy design.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by rmckibben

"Another view of the new Fuqua Glenwood development. This is a complete slap in the face and middle finger to the Beltline and the people of Atlanta."

I agree. How did this get approved? I understand that these types of developments are needed, even Intown, but permitting this adjacent to the Beltline is criminal.

Is there a chance that these awful developments can be fixed in the future without completely demolishing them? It looks like this one could be much better with some tweaks...I mean, there are a few saving graces here but most of it just sucks.

Yall are gonna have to stop posting Fuqua photos and getting everybody all riled up.

[DWNTWN]

98 14th Street:

What I am looking at shows the new design with a reduction from three towers to two towers, but both towers are 70 floors each. Can Foxmcleod or bigstick (or anyone else) confirm this?

I also understand that they will be moving forward with one tower at a time, not both simultaneously. Even if they build one, it will be a stupendous addition to the skyline, and to the canyon like feel of 14th street. If they build both, and YooPeachtree, SLS, related (u/c), and the 17th&Peachtree towers are built, midtown will be positively enormous. What an exciting time in Atlanta.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by DWNTWN

98 14th Street:

What I am looking at shows the new design with a reduction from three towers to two towers, but both towers are 70 floors each. Can Foxmcleod or bigstick (or anyone else) confirm this?

I also understand that they will be moving forward with one tower at a time, not both simultaneously. Even if they build one, it will be a stupendous addition to the skyline, and to the canyon like feel of 14th street. If they build both, and YooPeachtree, SLS, related (u/c), and the 17th&Peachtree towers are built, midtown will be positively enormous. What an exciting time in Atlanta.

Yes please. Two 70 floor towers please.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by DWNTWN

98 14th Street:

What I am looking at shows the new design with a reduction from three towers to two towers, but both towers are 70 floors each. Can Foxmcleod or bigstick (or anyone else) confirm this?

I also understand that they will be moving forward with one tower at a time, not both simultaneously. Even if they build one, it will be a stupendous addition to the skyline, and to the canyon like feel of 14th street. If they build both, and YooPeachtree, SLS, related (u/c), and the 17th&Peachtree towers are built, midtown will be positively enormous. What an exciting time in Atlanta.

You're going to have us salivating here. Any idea when you/others will release the renders??

[Ant131531]

Does anyone actually know what the towers look like? I want to see the actual design.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by skyscraper_inspector

No one can ever answer this question for me either. How did this get around the Beltline Overlay requirements?

The BeltLine overlay requirements don't override the underlying zoning/use on site.

The developers had already submitted for site/land disturbance permits before the underlying zoning was changed (in quick haste after they had already submitted for permitting by the City Council-mind you) to better fit within the BeltLine Master Plan zoning recommendations.

The BeltLine overlay requirements are mostly "quality of life" zoning items- such as establishing requirements that drive throughs have to be screened from the public streets, establishing sidewalk and planting zone widths, etc.

[forj]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

they had already submitted for permitting by the City Council.

this is the key.. if i remember correctly the city council was favorable to this development and one of the city council members representing the district had a close relation ship with fuqua.

[DNR]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Yes please. Two 70 floor towers please.

...Two 70 story towers or...four 35 story towers...hmmmm? - What to do?
Oh well, can't argue with some needed height.

[bigstick]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Yes please. Two 70 floor towers please.

That is what a developer friend of mine at Turner told me as well, he said it is something (design) that will make ATL look like a different city, especially Midtown. Each could approach 1000 feet with a very unique ornamental design. And even better, both will be built at the same time, not one at a time, because we know how that usually turns out.

If I am wrong about some of this, please don't kill me... Thanks

[RocketSurgeon]

I'm not sure everyone understands what the BeltLine overlay district is and how little authority it has. It covers areas zoned for all kinds of uses; light industrial, low-density commercial, residential, etc. It's not all high-density mixed-use. It's not feasible to make sweeping zoning changes, especially if they render land unusable because the area can't sustain the density and high-cost construction being required. I think if you research the zoning for Fuqua's lot you'll find that nothing has been violated.

Urban planning is easy on paper--just make everything nice, right?--but the real world is full of private property that must be monetized now. Drastic changes in the character of a neighborhood take decades, not months. By 2050 the Glenwood area may look much different, but you're asking for it to skip puberty and wake up a full-grown adult based entirely a bike trail and the promise that transit could come at some undetermined point in the future. That's not going to happen, not in an area that has little else going for it (commercially speaking) than cheap land and easy interstate access.

Originally Posted by bigstick

That is what a developer friend of mine at Turner told me as well, he said it is something (design) that will make ATL look like a different city, especially Midtown. Each could approach 1000 feet with a very unique ornamental design. And even better, both will be built at the same time, not one at a time, because we know how that usually turns out.

That's interesting, I suspected this cycle would produce at least one truly tall building... and being residential, that's entirely new for Atlanta. Hopefully it doesn't fall through.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by bigstick

That is what a developer friend of mine at Turner told me as well, he said it is something (design) that will make ATL look like a different city, especially Midtown. Each could approach 1000 feet with a very unique ornamental design. And even better, both will be built at the same time, not one at a time, because we know how that usually turns out.

yes yes yes yes! Love all the development going in next to MARTA stations. I have a feeling a few years from now walking into a restaurant in Midtown without a reservation could prove difficult.

Now if only the Promenade parking garage on 15th would be developed, too!

[montydawg]

As much as I hate surface parking, I might point out that there are no parking decks within a mile of Fuqua's Glenwood establishment today (closest is at boulevard and memorial based on my memory), and the Kroger will definitely need a lot of parking to economically sustain the grocery store. The population density and land value of the area does not warrant anything more dense in my opinion. Grocery stores are key in getting development in an area and attracting residents (look at Downtown Atlanta)- so I see this as a first step in the long term growth of the neighborhood and the memorial drive corridor.

Let's look at this for what it is- a tear down strip mall (not the apartments) which will be replaced in the next 30 years with something more dense. This is already happening with the 1983 Murder Kroger right up the road, and we are also seeing this in Buckhead. I'm really looking forward to the day the Whole Foods/Home Depot shopping center across from Ponce City Market is redeveloped.

Edit: I forgot that the Ecco apartments right next door have a parking deck- however, I think apartment dwellers are a bit more picky when it comes to covered parking than people stopping in for groceries.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by montydawg

As much as I hate surface parking, I might point out that there are no parking decks within a mile of Fuqua's Glenwood establishment today

To that point, massive exposed surface parking lots are not the norm for the area, either. Only locations are at the high school and the mess north of EAV. Everything else is either hidden or street parking. The developer butchered the neighborhood for their net gain and that's about it.

[montydawg]

There are no large surface parking lots in the area because there are no big-box retail stores in the area. The only big box retail store that uses a parking structure south of Ponce is the Edgewood Target (perhaps I'm missing one). Retailers won't move to an area unless there is ample parking and they are not willing to finance the $15,000-$20,000 a parking spot for a parking deck unless they are going to get really good margins, like perhaps Midtown or Buckhead. I think the only reason Fuqua put in the parking structure at the Target is because he didn't have enough land on the Edgewood site to accommodate all the various retailers who wanted to be in that shopping center. I think if Fuqua had more retailers who wanted in on the Glenwood site, he would have built some sort of parking structure- but I think Kroger was the only big box he could get.

Edit: To add, I think this is purely an economics issue. If this land were $2 million an acre, then it would make sense to shrink the Kroger and build underground parking, and use the rest of the land for more residential or some other use. Since this land is probably worth much less, no one could justify spending the extra cash to build something more dense. Remember, there are acres and acres of vacant industrial land in the area, mostly along Memorial. Once the area gets built out, land values will rise, and with no vacant land, these large parcels will be developed into something more dense.