YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

A bit like the temporary Air Canada service during the Olympics: three or so weeks of Vancouver-Paris nonstop, Vancouver-Zurich nonstop, Vancouver-Geneva nonstop . . . . then back to the old "CHANGE PLANES IN TORONTO" routine. Only in Canada.

If there is not enough O and D you can't support the route. When the trade agreement is in place it will probably cause more hubbing not less. It is possible Vancouver will see a realignment in flights as the European connections from western Canada are realigned after everyone isn't forced to travel through London, Frankfurt or Amsterdam anymore.

It is entirely possible that Calgary could end up as the European connection hub to take advantage of Westjet's feeder service.

If all the routes you talk about go daily when the agreement goes in place I would be surprised if more than one survives after a year.

[nickinacan]

Originally Posted by sacrifice333

For domestic US, especially compared to Canada to US travel, they've won everytime for a long time and that won't change anytime soon when weighing cost and direct-itude heavily. Obviously for ease and time required flights originating from Canada would generally be easier for Canadians... but there is the whole international vs. domestic factor.

Canada used to always win on International flights, like those to Europe, but recently I've found better, easier fares out of the US (SEA) to Europe than YVR.

I can attest to that. I am heading to Copenhagen on Thursday and will be flying out of Seattle. Why? Because it costs close to 50% less to fly out of Seattle than Vancouver and I only have to change planes once (Not even an exaggeration, this is a completely true fact). Thank you Transport Canada for making it cheaper and easier to fly (And spend) my money in a foreign country!

[Gordon]

At this point I don't think Calgary has the facilities to become a signifcant hub for European flights.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Right now there is no real western Canada hub for flights to Europe, but Calgary is planning a big new international wing ~$1,300 million, after deciding that expanding the current wing which has US preclearance, and international swing gates wouldn't be enough capacity, and yet cost almost as much as building an entirely new wing.

So who knows what will happen - when it is open skies it could go any which way!

[Gordon]

One advantage that Vancouver has over Calgary is that it is already a major Asian hub & could be used as link between Eurrope & Asia

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Gordon

One advantage that Vancouver has over Calgary is that it is already a major Asian hub & could be used as link between Eurrope & Asia

Who goes the long way round? Unless your stopping for skiing in the middle...

I guess it may seem useful for airlines, but you would need Canada to give full fifth freedom rights for any service like that to work (or Air Canada to provide Tokyo - London flights). Of course it doesn't really make sense for passengers (the route is 57% longer), only to increase plane usage.




LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) NRT (35°45'53"N 140°23'11"E) 30° (NE) 5191 nm
2 segment path: 8166 nm (+57.3%)
LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) YVR (49°11'38"N 123°11'04"W) 323° (NW) 4104 nm
YVR (49°11'38"N 123°11'04"W) NRT (35°45'53"N 140°23'11"E) 299° (NW) 4061 nm

[trofirhen]

With many major head offices, in the middle of a Saudi-Arabian sized oil patch, and a population that has passed the million mark, Calgary is, and will increasingly be, an important business destination.

Vancouver has few head offices, but is over twice as large in population, is a major tourist destination, and has things that Calgary does not have - such as being the third largest motion picture and television production centre in North America after NY and LA.

Vancouver will not be eclipsed by Calgary, but will no longer be able to take itself for granted as the only major Western Canadian destination. We have a powerful competitor over the other side of the Rockies, differrent in character, but flexing its young muscles as never before.

However, given that both cities might be viewed by overseas airlines as a combined market (Emirates, for example, though nobody seems to want them for perhaps valid reasons) the two cities will exert more clout if an airline - take Belgium, for the sake of argument - had a Brussels > Calgary > Vancouver trajectory.

Both cities would win.

What is necessary now is to rally: citizens, YVR officials, business community leaders >> to write to their MPs, and keep applying LOUD and relentless pressure on the government to open up the destination market - be it Asia, Europe, Oceania, or Latin America - to the major cities of the West . . . . Vancouver and Calgary.

We're building, we're growing, we're raring to go. Don't let apathy let protectionist Ontario - and the sycophant Feds - keep hogging the routes for Toronto (and to a lesser extent Montreal) while depriving the the booming West.

The only way to deal with Ottawa is to make a lot of loud - but valid and well-founded - ruckus and noise, and apply pressure relentlessly on whichever party is in power in Ottawa.

Lawrence Cannon did nothing for the West. Neither has John Baird.

Then we have a chance for the piece of the airline destination pie long overdue us.

[twoNeurons]

Or how about Calgrary <-> Asia with a stop in Vancouver.

Right now, Vancouver's Tokyo Service isn't really Vancouver's Tokyo service... the flight originates in Toronto.

If other airlines had open skies, you could see ANA do a Calgary - YVR - Osaka ( if Vancouver can't fill the planes by itself )

I'm happy to hear about Osaka, though! I'm SERIOUSLY thinking of booking a flight during that time!

Also consider that Calgary also serves the Edmonton market. In the future, if they ever build a high-speed rail line between those two cities, Edmongary will become a force to reckon with.

[Yume-sama]

So, JAL has announced they will be cutting 9000 jobs and abolishing the 747 this year, much sooner than earlier planned. Vancouver will likely be the last route to see a 747

Many routes will be cut or taken over by American Airlines or Delta. While others will see a 777-300 or 777-300ER. They will be getting 35 787-8's soon, too.

The Japanese government is considering merging JAL and ANA to create one "super airline"

[Gordon]

Some of Air Canada's Asia service cuts out of Vancouver were initially due to high fuel prices and poor fuel economy with the 767s. The deep recession has devestated the airline industry.

[Yume-sama]

It's too bad that Boeing has screwed around so much with the 787, or a lot of these cuts wouldn't be necessary.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Some of Air Canada's Asia service cuts out of Vancouver were initially due to high fuel prices and poor fuel economy with the 767s. The deep recession has devestated the airline industry.

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

It's too bad that Boeing has screwed around so much with the 787, or a lot of these cuts wouldn't be necessary.

Somehow, nobody could ever admit it to themselves that one day, oil would become scarcer and scarcer, finally run dry, while getting more and more expensive all the while. Duuuuuh!

[GeeCee]

Why is Calgary significant in terms of Asia?

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Why is Calgary significant in terms of Asia?

Only in the sense that it would help Vancouver to fill planes, and therefore to justify Asian flights to/from Western Canada.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Why is Calgary significant in terms of Asia?

Oil. It's relevant everywhere. Actually, there's a large Vietnamese population there... many moved there when the cost of living was going up here.

[trofirhen]

Obviously, just about everyonehere is anxious to see our destination market opened up.
So ............................. LET'S ORGANIZE SOMETHING TO PUT HEAVY-DUTY PRESSURE ON THE TIGHT-ASSED ONTARIO FEDS !!!!!!!

Ideas, anyone ? ? ?

[MalcolmTucker]

Well, the European thing is already happening. As for Dubai, it ain't happening.

[SpongeG]

y'all flying out of seattle might like this... - the chart is easier to read at the source but Seattle is getting some improved routes - more competition!


Delta outlines new international service for 2010
5:33 PM Tue, Oct 20, 2009 | Permalink
Terry Maxon/Reporter Bio | E-mail | News tips



Delta Air Lines has laid out a long list of international routes that will start service or get expanded service next summer.

Says Glen Hauenstein, Delta's executive vice president of network planning and revenue management:

"No other airline has the alliance partners, fleet flexibility or network breadth to consistently deliver new routes for customers while at the same time being responsible in managing capacity in the face of a global economic recession.


"As America's flag carrier to the world, Delta's 2010 schedule will bring new nonstop service to dozens of communities around the globe, thanks to the strength of our worldwide alliances."


Delta says the changes "are part of the first fully consolidated schedule published following Delta's merger with Northwest, allowing the airline to reallocate existing capacity to new routes. Delta also will maintain many of the international route reductions it announced in June in response to decreased global demand."

City 1 City 2 Start date Frequency
Seattle Beijing, China June 4 Five times weekly
Seattle Osaka, Japan June 7 Daily
Detroit Hong Kong June 2 Five times weekly
Detroit Seoul-Incheon June 1 Five times weekly
Detroit Shanghai, China June 1 Expanded from five seven times weekly
Tokyo-Narita New York June 1 Upgraded from daily Boeing 777-200 to 747-400
Tokyo-Narita Los Angeles June 1 From seven to 11 weekly flights
Copenhagen New York May 27 Daily
New York Stockholm May 27 Daily
New York Tel Aviv June 3 Daily, upgraded from Boeing 767-300 to 747-400
Seattle Amsterdam June 1 Expanded from seven to 10 weekly flights
Atlanta Accra, Ghana June 1 Three times weekly
New York Abuja, Nigeria June 1 Three times weekly

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/10/delta-air-lines-has-laid.html

[s211]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Why is Calgary significant in terms of Asia?

It's not. Calgary's pulling another one of their tricks where they appear to say "we're getting Asia" when, in fact, they're selling a dream and hopefully people support it. Classic Calgary boosterism.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by s211

It's not. Calgary's pulling another one of their tricks where they appear to say "we're getting Asia" when, in fact, they're selling a dream and hopefully people support it. Classic Calgary boosterism.

You're right, s211, except in the domain of oil. That's why Emirates (which everybody seems to hate) wanted Vancouver AND Calgary as destinations.
Dubai is in the middle of one of the world's great oil producing regions (as everyone knows anyway) and it was for that, and only that, that they expressed a wish to have access to Calgary. Vancouver would have been the main entry point to Western Canada.

Oh well, there is still Qatar Airlines, and Etihad. Maybe people will accept their presence, if they ever come knocking.

(Though this being Canada, I doubt it)