[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[DyAm00394]

After 129 years, Slocum & Ferris in Saint John City Market is closing

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...john-1.7138020

[gtsoc]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

After 129 years, Slocum & Ferris in Saint John City Market is closing

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...john-1.7138020

Wow, the third sandwich shop in the Market that came under new owners in the last years to shutter. Unfortunately joins the ranks of Sister's and Sagrati's

[KnoxfordGuy]

Uptown lost many office workers and I'm sure it is affecting the bottom line. An issue with cities across the world right now. Very unfortunate.

[adamuptownsj]

Sisters and Slocum and Ferris were both ran into the ground. Sagrati's actually improved under new ownership but couldn't make money. Real shame.

Meanwhile Jeremiah's has a popup in Wasted Day, is opening a bakery, and added a decent u-bake frozen selection during Covid.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Sisters and Slocum and Ferris were both ran into the ground. Sagrati's actually improved under new ownership but couldn't make money. Real shame.

Meanwhile Jeremiah's has a popup in Wasted Day, is opening a bakery, and added a decent u-bake frozen selection during Covid.

That's sad but I'm not really surprised about Slocum and Ferris. It had changed a lot under the new owners............and not for the better.

Slocums was my go to lunch spot in the Market for many years when Dave Forestell had it. I tried it 2-3 times under the new owners but then gave up and never went back. They took several of my favourites off of the menu (like the homemade soups), no longer sold milk and it just wasn't the same without Dave's Chowda on Fridays or blueberry pancakes on Saturday morning. The china King Cole mugs were gone too.

As for Sagrati's, someone I know who has a business in the market said the guy was working his butt off to break even and eventually just got sick of doing it.


I'm in the market at least a couple of times a week, often around the noon hour, and can attest to the traffic still seeming way down from pre pandemic levels.

Given how quiet it is uptown in general these days running any business that depends on the lunch trade must be really tough.

[DyAm00394]

Apparently Cora Breakfast and Lunch is closing their uptown location inside Brunswick Square. Last day is March 17th.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Apparently Cora Breakfast and Lunch is closing their uptown location inside Brunswick Square. Last day is March 17th.

Another Brunswick Square closure, who could have seen that coming?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Another Brunswick Square closure, who could have seen that coming?

Hardly shocking. Brunswick Square is a ghost town and Uptown in general is pretty quiet most times I'm there during the day.

I'm beginning to wonder if the advent of remote work/work from home (even if it's only part time in many cases) is going to change the nature of urban cores permanently?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I'm beginning to wonder if the advent of remote work/work from home (even if it's only part time in many cases) is going to change the nature of urban cores permanently?

I think so. WFH can save an employee a lot of money in terms of commuter costs, parking, food at lunchtime etc. Maybe the new paradigm means that a family needs only one car rather than two. Things like this can make the difference between being able to afford to own your home rather than renting.

The only thing that will save downtowns is by drastically increasing the core population in order to support downtown business. That, and developing downtown entertainment districts that will draw people into the core on evenings and weekend.

This is the new paradigm.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think so. WFH can save an employee a lot of money in terms of commuter costs, parking, food at lunchtime etc. Maybe the new paradigm means that a family needs only one car rather than two. Things like this can make the difference between being able to afford to own your home rather than renting.

The only thing that will save downtowns is by drastically increasing the core population in order to support downtown business. That, and developing downtown entertainment districts that will draw people into the core on evenings and weekend.

This is the new paradigm.

This is where we are fortunate that there are at least a thousand new units being built in the next 2-3 years in the Uptown core. Those new residents are who will be driving the vitality of the city centre for the coming decades.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

This is where we are fortunate that there are at least a thousand new units being built in the next 2-3 years in the Uptown core. Those new residents are who will be driving the vitality of the city centre for the coming decades.

What do you guys think about the concept of converting empty office space to residential units? It's a trend in many larger cities.

[sailor734]

I was in the Market at noon today (12:15) other than maybe 8-10 people in line at Jeremiah’s most of the other food places had only one or two people either ordering or waiting to order.

Sisters is pretty well gutted but no sign of construction starting yet. Sad to see Slocum and Ferris sitting empty with stuff stacked haphazardly on the counters and tables.

Out of curiosity I stopped halfway up the centre aisle and looked both towards the top and bottom. Including me there were 5 people in sight.

[sailor734]

https://saintjohn.ca/sites/default/f...y%202023_0.pdf

I spent a few minutes and read through the strategic plan for the market that was released last summer.

I have very mixed feelings on this. At first glance it seems like a lot of technobabble and feel good buzzwords with not a lot of real solutions or positive changes. Turning a big chunk of the upper market into what appears to be a glorified food court strikes me as a particularly poor idea....as does the idea of pushing permanent vendors back to the sides into 'storefronts"....too mall like? The visuals make the results too wide open and empty/sterile looking to my eye.

Apologies if this was discussed before. I went through this thread's posts from last summer and didn't see anything.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

What do you guys think about the concept of converting empty office space to residential units? It's a trend in many larger cities.

I think it's inevitable that this will happen to some extent. There's already one small office building in downtown Fredericton that has been (or is in the process of being) converted to apartments. In most cases it isn't yet a no-brainer though since the way office buildings are constructed isn't necessarily conducive to residential conversion. For example, larger floor plates make coming up with good floorpans more challenging.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by OliverD

I think it's inevitable that this will happen to some extent. There's already one small office building in downtown Fredericton that has been (or is in the process of being) converted to apartments. In most cases it isn't yet a no-brainer though since the way office buildings are constructed isn't necessarily conducive to residential conversion. For example, larger floor plates make coming up with good floorpans more challenging.

The biggest problem is plumbing. In many cases, this means almost a forklift upgrade.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The biggest problem is plumbing. In many cases, this means almost a forklift upgrade.

Downtown Calgary was basically gutted when the oil industry took a nosedive. So the city created a downtown development incentive program which has been very successful.
Here's an interesting article on the topic:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...on-across-the/

[DyAm00394]

It's confirmed that Cannabis NB is opening a new Saint John location at 76 Germain Street. It was leaked on their store locator yesterday.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Downtown Calgary was basically gutted when the oil industry took a nosedive. So the city created a downtown development incentive program which has been very successful.
Here's an interesting article on the topic:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...on-across-the/

I suspect it might be more economically viable in a major market that can support $1200-1500+ per sq ft condo pricing.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I suspect it might be more economically viable in a major market that can support $1200-1500+ per sq ft condo pricing.

I was thinking the same thing. If you're looking at a building with multiple units on substantially more floors than we'd have here, then the economics would no doubt be more favourable. Plus the government subsidies would add to the business case for these projects.

It's just a shame to see so much office space sit there vacant month after month after month.

[OliverD]

The city could probably use Housing Accelerator Fund money to incentivize such conversions.