Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

Atlantic Canada (and Canada in general) has distinctions amongst old English-speaking groups.

Now you've gotten me very curious about my gf's ancestry. (There's actually a nonzero chance that's my future kids' ancestry we're talking about...)

Chances are that at least some were Loyalists.

It also branches immediately in two because she's 50% English and 50% Irish. (FWIW, in modern Quebec she's basically got a pure ethnically 100% Anglo background but I know better than that.) I'm wondering if, statistically, Irish in modern North America are more likely to come from somewhere different than English. At first sight it's almost certain it's the case.

More specifically, I know that tons of Irish landed in Quebec in the late 1840s at the time of the potato famine, and in the following generations they ended up scattering to other areas of the province (preferably areas with an already existing Anglo element). So that's a likely source of ancestors (i.e. directly from Ireland ~165 years ago).

On the other hand, the English branch could be loyalists who followed the same path as the ones who came to the Eastern Townships of Quebec and NB.

But maybe they're not, and come straight from the post-1760 injection of English into Quebec. I actually think that's more likely. If I dug a tiny bit into the history of Anglo Gaspé I could probably quickly get answers that are statistically likely to be the correct ones for any given Anglo from there.

[wg_flamip]

Originally Posted by Docere

Ethnic composition of the Maritimes after the end of mass immigration:

Interesting. I would've thought that PEI was a bit more Irish given it's somewhat notorious for the sectarian (Protestant/Catholic) divide that existed there. Although, IIRC, a disproportionately large percentage of Scottish migrants to the Maritimes were Catholic having been targetted for Highland clearances at home (Catholicism is still - by far - the largest denomination in Cape Breton).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

Now you've gotten me very curious about my gf's ancestry. (There's actually a nonzero chance that's my future kids' ancestry we're talking about...)

Chances are that at least some were Loyalists.

It also branches immediately in two because she's 50% English and 50% Irish. (FWIW, in modern Quebec she's basically got a pure ethnically 100% Anglo background but I know better than that.) I'm wondering if, statistically, Irish in modern North America are more likely to come from somewhere different than English. At first sight it's almost certain it's the case.

More specifically, I know that tons of Irish landed in Quebec in the late 1840s at the time of the potato famine, and in the following generations they ended up scattering to other areas of the province (preferably areas with an already existing Anglo element). So that's a likely source of ancestors (i.e. directly from Ireland ~165 years ago).

On the other hand, the English branch could be loyalists who followed the same path as the ones who came to the Eastern Townships of Quebec and NB.

But maybe they're not, and come straight from the post-1760 injection of English into Quebec. I actually think that's more likely. If I dug a tiny bit into the history of Anglo Gaspé I could probably quickly get answers that are statistically likely to be the correct ones for any given Anglo from there.

It could even be worse than that, lio. Some of the original anglo settlers in the Gaspé were British troops who, after the Conquest, took land grants in Gaspésie. Although they would more likely have been Scottish than English.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Docere

Ethnic composition of the Maritimes after the end of mass immigration:

New Brunswick (1871 census)

Irish 100,643 35.3%
English/Welsh 83,598 29.2%
French 44,907 15.7%
Scottish 40,858 14.3%
German/Swiss 4,542 1.6%

Nova Scotia (1871 census)

Scottish 130,741 33.7%
English/Welsh 113,520 29.2%
Irish 62,851 16.4%
German/Swiss 33,717 8.7%
French 32,833 8.5%
African 6,212 1.6%

Prince Edward Island (1881 census)

Scottish 48,933 44.8%
Irish 25,415 23.3%
English/Welsh 21,568 19.8%
French 10,751 9.9%

Interesting numbers.

What's fascinating for me is that around the time of Confederation, NB and NS had roughly the same Acadian population: about 35-40,000 in each province.

So much so that many Acadian institutions were founded in NS and not in NB. I am thinking for example of the daily newspaper L'Évangéline which was published for much of the 20th century. It like many other institutions eventually moved to NB.

Fast forward today and the Acadian population of NB is just under 250,000 and the NS Acadian population is exactly the same as it was at Confederation: under 35,000.

The Acadian population of PEI is half what it was at Confederation.

I wonder what happened in all three provinces.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Docere

I specifically said direct immigration from England, not Europe.

Oops, I misread this.

This is true and I think it fits a standard pattern. Comparatively few immigrants seem to be wealthy, successful people who just have a sense of adventure, although those do exist. Most commonly there is some economic distress or social tension that pushes people to leave their home en masse. This happened with Irish during the famines, the Highland Clearances, Jews in Eastern Europe, English religious minorities moving to the US, etc.

There were a lot of people with English heritage who had a disproportionate amount of wealth and political influence. I bet if you did an urban/rural breakdown in the Maritimes in 1871, the percentage of urban English/Welsh would be much higher and Scottish/Irish would be lower. English was the dominant language in the towns but was probably in the minority out in the countryside until the 20th century. I think this mirrors the situation in Europe from 1600-1900 to some degree, where the languages of the capitals were not nearly as standardized throughout the hinterland as they are today.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What's fascinating for me is that around the time of Confederation, NB and NS had roughly the same Acadian population: about 35-40,000 in each province.

So much so that many Acadian institutions were founded in NS and not in NB. I am thinking for example of the daily newspaper L'Évangéline which was published for much of the 20th century. It like many other institutions eventually moved to NB.

This is surprising to me too. I thought the current ratio went back to the deportation.

I don't know if it's true demographically, but it feels in some ways like NB has become a more "Acadian" province over the past few decades, particularly as Saint John has continued its relative decline ("we don't care about this in SJ!" used to be one of the prominent counter-arguments to province-wide bilingualism) and the province has become more receptive to establishing Francophone and bilingual institutions. NS also tends to be pro-French language and Acadian now, even though the actual French-speaking minority is small. It would be politically unpopular for, say, an MLA to get up and complain about spending money on French-language signs or schools. I doubt that was as true in 1970, but I am not sure. There's also a sense that Acadians are a special historic minority in the province (same for African Nova Scotians or Mi'kmaq; they each have a representative seat on the Halifax school board, for example, and a few provincial seats are deliberately gerrymandered to allow for better minority representation) worthy of extra attention (so, as one example, there's a black representat ). West of Quebec, Canada doesn't really operate like this.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I'll be interested to see what others say. Without knowing, I would have assumed that English speakers from Gaspésie sound "Atlantic", so I can't think of what they'd have in common with someone from southern Manitoba, other than perhaps a "rural" type of accent.

East of Winnipeg is heavily Mennonite, while west of Winnipeg the rural areas were settled mostly by Ontarians. North of Winnipeg is the Interlake district which has a lot of Ukrainians.

Manitoba is the demographic oddball compared to the US states and Canadian provinces it borders. More Mennonites than German Catholics. Much smaller Scandinavian population and they're Icelandic rather than Norwegian. Saskatchewan has a large Ukrainian population like Manitoba, but it has good numbers of German Catholics and Norwegians too. Northwestern Ontario, like Minnesota's Iron Range, has a lot of Finns.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Docere

East of Winnipeg is heavily Mennonite...

More south, actually. Steinbach, Winkler and Morden are major centres that loom large in Manitoba's Mennonite demographics.

[Docere]

Yeah, that's more accurate. The rural southeast is heavily Mennonite, rural southwest was settled mostly by Ontarians.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

This is surprising to me too. I thought the current ratio went back to the deportation.

I don't know if it's true demographically, but it feels in some ways like NB has become a more "Acadian" province over the past few decades, particularly as Saint John has continued its relative decline ("we don't care about this in SJ!" used to be one of the prominent counter-arguments to province-wide bilingualism) and the province has become more receptive to establishing Francophone and bilingual institutions. NS also tends to be pro-French language and Acadian now, even though the actual French-speaking minority is small. It would be politically unpopular for, say, an MLA to get up and complain about spending money on French-language signs or schools. I doubt that was as true in 1970, but I am not sure. There's also a sense that Acadians are a special historic minority in the province (same for African Nova Scotians or Mi'kmaq; they each have a representative seat on ethe Halifax school board, for example, and a few provincial seats are delibrately gerrymandered to allow for better minority representation) worthy of extra attention (so, as one example, there's a black representat ). West of Quebec, Canada doesn't really operate like this.

What's interesting is that New Brunswick isn't really more Acadian today demographically than it was 30-40 years ago. The population in sheer numbers and percentage is about the same and fairly stable.

I think your point about Saint John's decline (and overtaking by Moncton) is a big factor. The main city in the province went from being one with very few Acadians to one where they are 35-40% of the population and which abuts a significant population concentration of Acadians in the SE.

Overall, while their population is fairly stable, Acadians also took provincial official bilingualism and ran with it and all of its possible institutional trappings.

And contrary to basically every single other province outside Quebec, there has been little to no erosion (at least not language-wise) of historically Acadian regions and none of them have "slipped over to English" like has happened in many Franco-Ontarian areas or Acadian areas of NS and PEI. All of the predominantly Acadian communities that were like that in the 1960s still are predominantly Acadian today. (Although there are some pressures in a few places in the SE at the moment - we'll see how that pans out). And in places like Edmundston, Bathurst and Campbellton, the Acadian and francophone presence/visibility in those cities has actually increased over the past couple of generations.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Although they would more likely have been Scottish than English.

I really don't recall ever seeing Presbyterian churches in Gaspésie (my mom's from there, as well as more than half of my family)... maybe I didn't pay attention? On the other hand, I know of several in the Townships, where the Scottish heritage is quite present.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

I really don't recall ever seeing Presbyterian churches in Gaspésie (my mom's from there, as well as more than half of my family)... maybe I didn't pay attention? On the other hand, I know of several in the Townships, where the Scottish heritage is quite present.

There's a Presbyterian church in New Carlisle, but you'd also need to check any United churches to see if they were originally Presbyterian prior to the formation of the United Church of Canada in the 1920s. Some of the Scots assimilated into the francophone community over time as well (eg the Frasers of Fraserville, a.k.a Riviere-du-Loup).

[Docere]

Here's an interview with former Polka Dot Door host Johnie Chase, an African Canadian from Windsor. He mentions in the interview that Windsor was influenced by neighboring Detroit, and when TVO went on the air it wasn't available in Windsor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP9WBYvXk1o

[SignalHillHiker]

Waiter this evening came to take the plates off our table and said, "Are youzze done wit deezze?"

I said to Ayreonaut afterwards: I hear "youzze" often enough but I don't know which part of the island that's from. I should ask him. It's not Grand Bank, but it's close to what they say.

And Ayreonaut said, "That's not normal?" And I said no, I find people here usually say "yahs" or "ye" and said, "OH! That's right!"

Five minutes later we go up to pay and that waiter is talking to some other patrons. Thickest Irish accent ever. He's actually from Ireland. Whoops.

Ayreonaut said it's "yinz" in... I think he said Philly. I like that.

[Ayreonaut]

Pittsburghers are the Yinzers.

[SignalHillHiker]

Thanks!

Also, found it:

• Video Link

Our teachers never said "retarded" - but our ancient educational videos from the States did. And that was in the early 90s.

[SignalHillHiker]

I've noticed some people here seem to say "hey" in the same way the stereotypical Canadian says "eh".

Finally an example. Even with whatever vocal training CBC provides. (The guy moved here from Ontario so that's why he sounds even further removed).

https://www.facebook.com/cbcnl/videos/10153257041502174/

[lio45]

When are Canadians supposed to say "eh"? At the end of sentences?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by lio45

When are Canadians supposed to say "eh"? At the end of sentences?

I think that is the most common way to use the word.

Here in Timmins, ON may people end sentences with "there." And in French you often here sentences ending with "là".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I think that is the most common way to use the word.

Here in Timmins, ON may people end sentences with "there." And in French you often here sentences ending with "là".

What's about ''dair''?

''Dat's a nice car, dair dair!''