Halifax Stadium Discussion

[wespidel]

Mayor Kelly, if you happen to read this post, Winnipeg has a GMP in place that protects them in over runs on costs in completion of there new stadium. GMP, Guaranteed Maxium Price, so if the development goes over the guaranteed price they have to pay the difference, very important part in building a stadium to bring it in on budget and to avoid any extra hiked costs.

Mayor Kelly this is the way to go, perchaps call the Winnipeg`s Mayor and get more insight on the GMP on their stadium project.

SPYDER*

[thurmas]

Finally some good news, however for only $60 million it will be a very basic bare bones ball park. Here in Winnipeg for 33,000 seats it's$190 million if your's is say 28,000 as Mayor Kelly said it will be close to 30,000 that means bare bones. I hope it can afford permanent seats with backs and a concrete stadium not steel like crappy BMO field in Toronto which is junk. Also I hope they have the stadium open ended on either 1 or 2 sides for temporary seating for Grey Cups.Can't wait for those renderings though!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Moncton city council vote tonite to bid on the Women`s World Cup Of Soccer, to bewcome one of 6 hosts cities in Canada to host.

On CTV tonite Peter MacKay expressed real interest in support of a major stadium to be built in Halifax. Yes, he used the word major stadium and said if Mayor Kelly and the province come up with a good proposal and present it to him he would seriously take a long look at it because he said that was one of the main reasons that they will willing and excited to support the CommonWealth Games bid because it would have gave Halifax a major stadium.

Also CTV reported that the Mayor Kelly said that he wants to see the stadium start construction within the next two years and also said that the stadium would seat close to 30 thousand people.

I`m impressed, so hopefully it will be the 60 million plus model with all the amendities, skyboxes, inside stadium concourses, etc.

What do you think Fenwick 16, can Halifax, if they build a stadium in the right location, can they build a modest 30 thousand seat stadium for 60 million plus and if so what kind of stadium will be be? It aso very important that those 28 thousand or 30 thousand seats are permanent seats not 20 thousand permanent and a make shift to 28 or 30 thousand. But I believe the way Mayor Kelly was factoring out the cost of a stadium, per/seat cost to build a stadium, that in the 40 to 60 million range, that the seats were permanent. Good job Mayor Kelly!

PS. Also it`s obvious what Sue Uteck and Saint Mary`s are trying to do, is only think about themselves and their needs and not the city of Halifax and the surrounding area and what the city and the people want and need in a stadium because the coach of Saint Mary`s football team was on CTV news and said that he basicly wants the stadium built on campus, as a free gift from the city and province and the Feds and doesn`t want it built elsewhere and was complaining. I`m sure Sue Uteck is behind this because she has met with Saint Mary`s and they have a blue print for a university 15,000 seat stadium for Saint Mary`s, which I call a Sue Uteck Special so they can get back the Uteck Bowl. Sorry Sue Uteck and Saint Mary`s, the Mayor of Halifax and the public don`t want to have a stadium built at Saint Mary`s to benefit only Sue Uteck and the Saint Mary`s football team. Dal will get a university football team and will be happy to use a new major multi purpose stadium facility where there is room to build the proper size CFL model stadium with all the features and a location where the stadium can be permanently expanded or made into a make shift 45 to 50 thousand seat stadium for a Grey Cup and major concerts and other major events. Not at Saint Mary`s where it can`t!

What do you think people, sounds encouraging and I believe Mayor Kelly is going to build a 60 million dollar multi purpose sizable, expandable major stadium in the right location for the city of Halifax and Moncton you are in big trouble! Watch Mayor Kelly do it and he will because of the World Trade Centre and the new library and the Bedford 4 Pad and Canada Winter Games Centre, it`s the only major project left to complete his mission and this time around, Mayor Kelly is serious and eager and determined to do it right and build it right and he will!

SPYDER*

Thanks for the CTV news summary, wespidel. I can't see it up here in the Toronto area (I moved away 30 years ago).



Personally, I think a partial roof would be one slight luxury that could help the stadium attract more fans during inclement weather. The roof is loosely based on this stadium below (Gamla Ullevi, Sweden) which was built at a modest price. Does anyone speak Swedish and can contact the architect/engineer? It also has open concourses with centralized washrooms (in the front of the stadium, I believe)

(source: http://www.groundhopping.se/Orgryte.htm )

[thurmas]

The only stadium I can compare that is candian and has a similar price is Saputo stadium in Montreal. Built in 2008 it seats 13,000 and built for $17 million. With an expansion for 2012 to seat 20,000 for and extra $20 million. Total cost $37 million for 20,000 similar price per seat to what Mayor Kelly is proposing for a larger stadium near the 30,000 range. Here is the link:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/se...corporate+boxes&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

[thurmas]

Super job fenwick your design looks like old Frank Clair stadium in Ottawa, very nice!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Super job fenwick your design looks like old Frank Clair stadium in Ottawa, very nice!

Thanks thurmas. Actually, I spent a lot of time reading about the Frank Clair Stadium renovations and tried to think of ways that it could be simplified (the South stand, not the very complex North Stand/Civic Arena). There is a real wealth of information in this document that is freely posted on the internet - http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/public_consult/lansdowne_partnership/renovation_addition.pdf .

The design is also a bit like this one (Plaster stadium):

Plaster Sports Complex (source: http://www.prestressedcasting.com/port_msusports.php)



Also ideas from the InfoCision Stadium in Akron and Gamla Ullevi (Sweden) have been thrown in. I have looked at most small, medium and large stadiums in North America and some in Europe on the internet. I have even downloaded a lot of 3D stadium models from Google's 3D Warehouse. So I have added concepts from a few different stadiums.

[someone123]

Nice to see actual progress on this one. $1B+ CWGs were overkill but a $60M stadium is totally doable. 30,000 permanent seats seems like a good size in that it's sufficient for a CFL team and not too expensive.

I think it would be a waste to build a limited stadium at St. Mary's when other sites leave more possibilities open. As mentioned many times, Gorsebrook would be much better and isn't far away.

[fenwick16]

Here are remarks by MP Peter MacKay regarding a stadium http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2010/12/20/ns-stadium-mckay-kelly.html . It sounds like the federal government would support a stadium if there are a commitments from the HRM and provincial governments.

[beyeas]

Gotta love the idiot who wrote the headline "Mackay not sold on Halifax projects". Do they just let the HT write the headlines now?

All he said (which is what he should say) is that he awaits details and the projects need to be sound and it is cabinet's decision rather than his alone.
(Having said that, he did sound weaker on the CC, which is a tad worrying).

[q12]

Does any part of the commonwealth games stadium have anything useful for them within it's designs since it was planned for 50,000 of which supposedly 25,000 were permanent seats? I know it looked good and was going to cost over 100 million but if you took out temporary seats, and the track and other luxurys it might have been a reasonable costing stadium in the 60 million range.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

The Commonwealth Games proposal (previous images) looks good. The above image is a great looking stadium proposal, but isn't it from the Hamilton Pan-Am Games proposal (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=135278)? The Hamilton proposal has become mired in disputes about the cost and location and the latest proposal is shown below. I just hope that a stadium will be built in Halifax without as much controversy.

Latest Hamilton Pan-Am Games proposal (source: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=175400&page=148 )

[q12]

Wish list may be too long
Stadium, convention centre both vying for federal funds

By STEPHEN MAHER Staff Reporter
Wed, Dec 22 - 7:08 AM

Peter MacKay’s comments about a new convention centre and a stadium for Halifax Regional Municipality suggest that the city may be muddying the waters by promoting two projects at the same time.

In Pictou County on Monday, MacKay, Nova Scotia’s man in the federal cabinet, seemed to signal that Ottawa may not want to provide $47 million for a new Halifax convention centre, while he was neutral on the prospect of a new stadium.

"I want to see all the information before I make any determination as to whether we’ll support the project," he said about the convention centre. "There appears to be growing division of opinion on whether this is a project that would merit federal support."

The municipality and the province both support the proposed public-private project, but Halifax MP Megan Leslie has expressed mixed feelings, as have several other Nova Scotia MPs.

MacKay spoke more neutrally about a proposed stadium.

"If there is a concrete proposal coming forward from the mayor, from the province, again, I will be happy to see that detailed information, and then make an assessment," MacKay said.

A new stadium would cost about $30 million. In a three-way split, the federal share would be about $10 million, which might be more appealing to a federal government that has promised to rein in spending in the next budget.

Regional council voted last week to prepare a bid for the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup, which would require a 20,000-seat stadium. The city will present its application and a non-refundable cheque for $25,000 to Soccer Canada by Friday.

Canada will submit its bid for the games by February, and, if successful, choose six cities to host events across the country. Other cities submitting bids, including Moncton, already have stadiums that could handle the events, but Halifax would have to build one.

Events Nova Scotia advised council that Halifax shouldn’t submit a bid, warning "timelines do not allow for proper due diligence on venue feasibility, public input or funding partnerships."

Council decided to proceed, saying that a stadium would be desirable whether or not the city ends up hosting the soccer event.

On Monday, the federal government announced that it supports Canada’s bid and promised $15 million in funding, but that money would go to operational costs, not building a stadium.

MacKay’s comments were taken by some in the media to suggest Ottawa would be more likely to approve stadium funding than convention centre funding, but his spokesman said Tuesday that the defence minister said nothing of the sort.

"All he said was he has to do due diligence in reviewing the project," said Jay Paxton. "He’s approaching them both with the same frame of mind."

Paxton said civil servants at Transport Canada are reviewing the convention centre proposal in detail.

Mayor Peter Kelly said Tuesday that MacKay has not expressed doubts to him about the convention centre.

"I’ve not heard that from him, so I’m waiting to see their formal response," he said.

Kelly said a stadium for the city should be able to be used for many functions — sports events, concerts and trade shows, and should be located in a part of the city where it won’t cause traffic problems. Shannon Park, a former military community in Dartmouth, is considered a potential site.

Coun. Sue Uteck says the city should invest in expanding the existing stadium at Saint Mary’s University.

"Unlike the mayor, I don’t see a stand-alone stadium in Halifax," she said. "I don’t see it."

Kelly said her proposal may not work because there might not be enough room to expand it, it may not suit non-sporting functions and it may cause traffic problems.

"We must not only see things in one light," he said. "We must see it in the total elements of opportunities and make sure we maximize each and every one of them."

Coun. Tim Outhit opposes the stadium, saying the city should leave event hosting to Moncton and focus on business activities, which would be better advanced by a convention centre.

He said he is afraid the stadium will be a distraction from the convention centre, a project that would inject $500 million into downtown Halifax.

"Ottawa has always used divide and conquer against us down here, so we don’t even have our local MPs supporting the project," he said. "We’ve got, potentially, Mr. MacKay suggesting he’s interested in a stadium, which would put us in competition with Moncton, which I have no interest in competing with."

If Canada wins the right to host the Women’s World Cup, the process of selecting six host cities would begin in April. Soccer Canada would pick the successful cities in April 2012.

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1218517.html

[q12]

Coun. Sue Uteck says the city should invest in expanding the existing stadium at Saint Mary’s University.

"Unlike the mayor, I don’t see a stand-alone stadium in Halifax," she said. "I don’t see it."

Don't see what? The greater potential to host big events that a larger stand-alone stadium can bring. This is an example of counciller looking out for her own interests above the interests of the city as a whole.

Not to mention it will be easier to get stadium funding if it is for an event like the FIFA 2015.

Coun. Tim Outhit opposes the stadium, saying the city should leave event hosting to Moncton and focus on business activities, which would be better advanced by a convention centre.

He said he is afraid the stadium will be a distraction from the convention centre, a project that would inject $500 million into downtown Halifax.

"Ottawa has always used divide and conquer against us down here, so we don’t even have our local MPs supporting the project," he said. "We’ve got, potentially, Mr. MacKay suggesting he’s interested in a stadium, which would put us in competition with Moncton, which I have no interest in competing with."

This is the kind of thinking that is holding this city back, I hope this guy doesn't plan on running in Bedford again since I'm sure there is majority in that area that would support a stadium.

[Empire]

Coun. Tim Outhit opposes the stadium, saying the city should leave event hosting to Moncton and focus on business activities, which would be better advanced by a convention centre.

He said he is afraid the stadium will be a distraction from the convention centre, a project that would inject $500 million into downtown Halifax.

Tim shouldn't be so afraid! Tim doesn't realize that the attraction of an area is not just a job but what the community has to offer. If Tim thinks that turning his back on the sporting community, youth, fitness programs and the health and wellbeing of its citizens is somehow progress then he is sadly mistaken. He is another one with the Santa Claus hands out tax money only to what I want syndrome.

[Waye Mason]

If there was an infinite supply of money then we would have great schools, perfect unblemished roads, community centres with pools in walking distance of every home, a covered stadium, a convention centre, light rail, high speed ferries.

There is not. You have to prioritize. I don't think a stand alone stadium that the city has to pay to operate is in the cards. I think Sue is right, something at SMU is cost effective. If the choice is just a stand alone stadium, or a convention centre and 5-10K seats at SMU, I choose the later.

[fenwick16]

I think that a medium size stadium (25,000 seat expandable stadium) will help to attract and retain residents. Halifax has live performance venues (Neptune Theatre and the Rebecca Cohn Auditorium) and I am sure that most people can understand the importance of such venues for the city. I think that as far as live music and theatrical plays is concerned, Halifax is quite well served based on its population. However, when it comes to sports Halifax is behind other cities in Canada. In order for Halifax to attract and retain residents it has to be able to also offer some decent sporting events. Once a stadium is in place, attracting a CFL team should be easy. At a $7,000,000 dollar expansion fee, it is only 7,000 shares of $1,000 dollars. I would gladly buy a couple of shares and I think that it would be easy to sell 7,000 shares to residents and ex-residents for the expansion fee. Now let's get a stadium so that Halifax can get the CFL team that it should of had 27 years ago.

[q12]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

If there was an infinite supply of money then we would have great schools, perfect unblemished roads, community centres with pools in walking distance of every home, a covered stadium, a convention centre, light rail, high speed ferries.

There is not. You have to prioritize. I don't think a stand alone stadium that the city has to pay to operate is in the cards. I think Sue is right, something at SMU is cost effective. If the choice is just a stand alone stadium, or a convention centre and 5-10K seats at SMU, I choose the later.

Let SMU build it's own stadium then. The cost for a 25,000-30,000 seat stand alone stadium can be shared between all levels of government and private investors which can make for a affordable stadium.

[-Harlington-]

i was at a game at smu fairly recently and there is absolutely little to no room to expand unless you tear down the tower which i doubt would happen, maybe you could get a few more seats but its a tight squeeze thats for sure
and i do not like this whole stadium vs nova centre debate going on, both would improve the city immensely and both we need to help this city from not dying like the rest of the maritimes
Halifax actually has some good project proposals going on for the first time in awhile the feds just aren't used to that, how many projects do other citys have on the go?

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think that a medium size stadium (25,000 seat expandable stadium) will help to attract and retain residents. Halifax has live performance venues (Neptune Theatre and the Rebecca Cohn Auditorium) and I am sure that most people can understand the importance of such venues for the city.

Sure, built back when we had money and then when we had no fear of debt. Name a recent build for arts in Halifax. Neptune was 15 years ago. I am sure it would attract people and retain residents. So would all new P-12 schools that were adequately funded. So would all new rec centres, most of which are now 20-25+ years old. You can say that about anything. A CFL size stadium is the second most expensive facility a municipality can build for sports and leisure, only second to an NHL size arena.

This is a big project, and if we do it as a stand alone, we are going to have to cut a bunch of other projects, because realistically, the city is broke and has no capacity to operate a huge new facility. We already have a structural deficit. Lets be realistic for a second.

Originally Posted by q12

Let SMU build it's own stadium then. The cost for a 25,000-30,000 seat stand alone stadium can be shared between all levels of government and private investors which can make for a affordable stadium.

As you know, no construction happens on any campus without provincial and federal spending. 25,000-30,000 seats could cost $50-$100 million. There is no actual user for this stadium. Please, look realistically at the population and wealth of people in this region, and try and figure out where the money comes from to build and operate this thing.

The median family income in Regina is $71,174, Saskatchewan $58,563, Ottawa $80,388, Halifax $66,892, Nova Scotia $55,412. Affordability is an issue.

Originally Posted by -Harlington-

i was at a game at smu fairly recently and there is absolutely little to no room to expand unless you tear down the tower

I was on campus last week, If you build 5-10K seats there is plenty of room for a single large double deck bleacher on the current bleacher site.

[q12]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

Sure, built back when we had money and then when we had no fear of debt. Name a recent build for arts in Halifax. Neptune was 15 years ago. I am sure it would attract people and retain residents. So would all new P-12 schools that were adequately funded. So would all new rec centres, most of which are now 20-25+ years old. You can say that about anything. A CFL size stadium is the second most expensive facility a municipality can build for sports and leisure, only second to an NHL size arena.

This is a big project, and if we do it as a stand alone, we are going to have to cut a bunch of other projects, because realistically, the city is broke and has no capacity to operate a huge new facility. We already have a structural deficit. Lets be realistic for a second.

As you know, no construction happens on any campus without provincial and federal spending. 25,000-30,000 seats could cost $50-$100 million. There is no actual user for this stadium. Please, look realistically at the population and wealth of people in this region, and try and figure out where the money comes from to build and operate this thing.

The median family income in Regina is $71,174, Saskatchewan $58,563, Ottawa $80,388, Halifax $66,892, Nova Scotia $55,412. Affordability is an issue.

Are you Bruce Devenne in Disguise?


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