Winnipeg Restaurants

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Oh, nine owners you say!? I'm guessing there will be several fewer after the first cash call.

And I can't be the only person wondering where the money comes from. Especially this new Barley Brothers expansion. There were legitimate, well-financed chains that looked at that space and couldn't find a way to make it feasible given its size, the leaseholds required, and the monthly nut. How does a middling, local restaurant with terrible reviews open a second location that's 20,000 square feet!?

Because FB Hospitality is actually terribly managed. The owners focus on opening new stores and immediately forget about them once they've started their next project. I know several people who work at many of their places, and say it's brutal. Hermano's rarely has a floor manager, and their lucky that the ambience hides how slow the service there is — the food is great though.

Prairie 360 is having a serious problem with staff retention because they are not busy for regular food service, only when there's corporate events or parties. I know lots of ppl who have gone through there and left very quickly due to poor planning and management. I really don't see it lasting too long, hopefully I'm wrong though.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Because FB Hospitality is actually terribly managed. The owners focus on opening new stores and immediately forget about them once they've started their next project. I know several people who work at many of their places, and say it's brutal. Hermano's rarely has a floor manager, and their lucky that the ambience hides how slow the service there is — the food is great though.

Prairie 360 is having a serious problem with staff retention because they are not busy for regular food service, only when there's corporate events or parties. I know lots of ppl who have gone through there and left very quickly due to poor planning and management. I really don't see it lasting too long, hopefully I'm wrong though.

Oh yeah, I mean, I've heard all the same things, but it still doesn't serve to explain where the millions of dollars in operating capital and millions upon millions of dollars in leaseholds come from. Somebody is underwriting this.

Generally, a bank is only prepared to finance 50% of a restaurants leaseholds provided the ownership can personally guarantee it. In other words, they need at least the 50% in cash and the other 50% in value somewhere the bank can chattel in some capacity in the event they can't pay. And then somebody has to finance the lean months - generally 12-24 months in the restaurant business - with more cash. That's why restaurants are consistently going out of business - people don't understand the financial requirements upfront.

But these guys have yet to shutter a restaurant even though they're all mostly empty. And they keep opening others! Something is very strange around there. Especially given the uptake of the old Earl's site.

[esquire]

^ I'm no restaurant whiz but I do eat, and Hermano's has a steady clientele (the excellent reviews have no doubt helped). Barley Brothers has also developed a loyal following among beer enthusiasts... the original location is busy. Prairie 360 must be a bit of a disappointment... I was shocked to see it half empty at prime dining hours on a Saturday last month. But it's not as though there are tumbleweeds in their restaurants as a rule.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I'm no restaurant whiz but I do eat, and Hermano's has a steady clientele (the excellent reviews have no doubt helped). Barley Brothers has also developed a loyal following among beer enthusiasts... the original location is busy. Prairie 360 must be a bit of a disappointment... I was shocked to see it half empty at prime dining hours on a Saturday last month. But it's not as though there are tumbleweeds in their restaurants as a rule.

I'm merely questioning where all the money is coming from. A few beer enthusiasts in the city can't sustain that sort of operation. Not to mention that there are much better restaurants all over this city that have fantastic reviews and great food and don't have the capital to be expanding exponentially.

Hermanos and Billabong - a restaurant they had to buy - might be the two exceptions given they're generally pretty busy. But I've been to the rest and it's always the same story: They're out of food, there's never any staff, and the place is always next to empty.

My best guess is that there are a lot of investors and FB is simply taking a management fee for running these places and signing the lease. The restaurant business has been around for a long time. I'm skeptical of the idea that they've reinvented the wheel. While the rest of the industry takes an average of two to three years to even become profitable - if they can even get to that point - these guys are spinning operating profits that allow them to fund multi-million dollar expansions in less time than that? I'm dubious...

[bomberjet]

Restaurants need to advertise. I really see nothing from Prairie 360. It get's forgotten about. You don't see it driving down the street. So they need to get their name out there.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Restaurants need to advertise. I really see nothing from Prairie 360. It get's forgotten about. You don't see it driving down the street. So they need to get their name out there.

They've spent many hundreds of thousands with the Winnipeg Jets. Their name was on the ice-clearing shovels!

The whole thing is just strange; The flippancy, the laissez-faire attitude. Existing restaurants struggling as others continue to open? Who runs a business like this unless there is almost literally endless cash flow? This is the restaurant business - these guys didn't hang an oil derrick.

[drew]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I'm no restaurant whiz but I do eat, and Hermano's has a steady clientele (the excellent reviews have no doubt helped). Barley Brothers has also developed a loyal following among beer enthusiasts... the original location is busy. Prairie 360 must be a bit of a disappointment... I was shocked to see it half empty at prime dining hours on a Saturday last month. But it's not as though there are tumbleweeds in their restaurants as a rule.

I tend to think there must have been a bit of an incentive offered for whoever was going to tackle the revolving restaurant. It is such a huge, high profile location, that remained empty for many years.

They certainly are catering to more of the "function" crowd versus the casual visitor. The food is good, and reasonable. Service is "meh".

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

They've spent many hundreds of thousands with the Winnipeg Jets. Their name was on the ice-clearing shovels!

The whole thing is just strange; The flippancy, the laissez-faire attitude. Existing restaurants struggling as others continue to open? Who runs a business like this unless there is almost literally endless cash flow? This is the restaurant business - these guys didn't hang an oil derrick.

Are you suggesting something nefarious is going on? Do you think the "endless cash flow" is laundered money, for example?

I also don't know much about the restaurant business, but it sure looks like most of his ventures are successful (the exception being 360). He's also been quite a booster/builder of downtown. I hope the GW is successful because that stretch of Portage could sure use some life.

[ediger]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Article in today's WFP about the Goodwill (or the GW for short, apparently). And Noel Bernier's restaurant empire keeps on expanding.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bus...279743432.html

There's also a bit of info about the new Barley Bros location (former Pembina Earls location).

Their naivety towards the local music scene could be their downfall. If they truly believe they'll be the only place offering music 7 days a week, wow. I've been involved in the Winnipeg music scene in one way or another most of my life and I've seen a lot of venues open shop and close within months due to a lack of bands & customers. There's plenty of bands in the city, but they tend to be creatures of habit. They find a venue or two run by people they know and trust and play there all the time. Unless you're someone who is known by people within the music community, it can be really hard to open a new venue. I would love to see it succeed, more venues for local bands is definitely not a bad thing, I'm just skeptical.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by ediger

Unless you're someone who is known by people within the music community, it can be really hard to open a new venue. I would love to see it succeed, more venues for local bands is definitely not a bad thing, I'm just skeptical.

I could be wrong, but aren't they all extremely well known within the music community? They all run Union Sound Hall which as far as I know has been nothing but hugely successful.

[ediger]

Originally Posted by rypinion

I could be wrong, but aren't they all extremely well known within the music community? They all run Union Sound Hall which as far as I know has been nothing but hugely successful.

Didn't read the sidebar initially. I suppose that does help a bit, although Union Sound Hall has kind of a shitty reputation among local bands. DJs seem to dig it, but live bands not so much.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Are you suggesting something nefarious is going on? Do you think the "endless cash flow" is laundered money, for example?

I also don't know much about the restaurant business, but it sure looks like most of his ventures are successful (the exception being 360). He's also been quite a booster/builder of downtown. I hope the GW is successful because that stretch of Portage could sure use some life.

I'm trying not to suggest anything, I'm just saying it's all strange.

Successful in the restaurant industry in a city like Winnipeg means you're breaking even at some point over the first couple of years and starting to earn a little money at some point thereafter. And that's usually with the ownership working 80 hours a week. The idea that one could be continually funding major expansions and renovations of other restaurants using the capital from relatively new restaurants would mean you'd likely be starving your existing operations of necessary cash flow even if they were packed. Especially, in fact, given that it takes a while to develop a well-oiled machine where you know exactly how to run your kitchen and front end; busy restaurants require lots of labour and inputs. They need all the cash they can get.

That's why it's strange to me. New restaurants need lots of cash and banks won't give it to them. I just wonder where all this extraneous capital comes from. As a group within a tough industry, they don't seem to be bothered or affected by the constraints everybody else seems to be.

[buzzg]

Bernier was quoted in the paper saying "I don't know if I'll ever make money off of this." That's a bizarre business plan. My friend got a job as a bartender there and had to get certified as a forklift driver because the kegs are stacked so high. Imagine how long it will take to change a keg.... also, with 150+ beers on tap, the low volume ones are going to go stale quite often.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Bernier was quoted in the paper saying "I don't know if I'll ever make money off of this." That's a bizarre business plan.

Yeah, this was a little eyebrow-raising. If we were talking about installing this same insane beer cooler in the existing location, then okay; it's a bit of a risk.

But we're talking about a multi-million dollar renovation of a 20,000 square foot restaurant for a relatively unproven concept that will no doubt bleed cash for a long time. The monthly operating costs on a building like that are probably somewhere on the order of $50K/mth including rent, taxes, insurance, and so forth. And who knows, they probably got a few months worth of free rent out of the deal, but that's completely immaterial in the overall scheme of things.

Anyway, who knows. It's just all very unconventional...

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Imagine how long it will take to change a keg.... also, with 150+ beers on tap, the low volume ones are going to go stale quite often.

Professionally maintained kegs don't go stale that quickly.

If kept cool and properly pressurized with CO2 a keg can last 3-6 months depending on the beer.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by ediger

I would love to see it succeed, more venues for local bands is definitely not a bad thing, I'm just skeptical.

Aside from the discussion regarding Berniers ability to finance his establishments, a live music venue/restaurant is a much needed bump to this area of Portage ave. I guess coming from a musician you'd expect me to say this but I hope it succeeds as well.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Professionally maintained kegs don't go stale that quickly.

If kept cool and properly pressurized with CO2 a keg can last 3-6 months depending on the beer.

Yeah, exactly. 3 months is really the maximum you should go, especially for darker beers. And think, with that many on tap, there's a very good chance a lot of them don't even pour a pint a week.

[drew]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Professionally maintained kegs don't go stale that quickly.

If kept cool and properly pressurized with CO2 a keg can last 3-6 months depending on the beer.

They use smaller kegs for many of the beers.

[1ajs]

so word on the street is the brother of the owner of deer almond is opening a wine bar in the old mon dragon space

[Cyro]

The cafe 22 location/expansion @ 823 Corydon looks nice.





avisonyoung.com

One of the units was being occupied today.