PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Sure fire way to guarantee NO wealthy people live in the city.

I mean, it's one thing to tax capital gains. It's an entirely other thing to think you can take 4% of your holdings PER YEAR. Give me an f'ng break.

It's pretty clear these fools don't even know how stocks work.

they don't have a clue. I saw someone post this screenshot of a now deleted tweet, but it pretty much exposes how half-baked most these peoples ideas are:


1% of $1000 is $10. $4 per $1000 is .4%, not .004%. I don't even care that much about the actual math. It's the ego and narcissism to even respond.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Sure fire way to guarantee NO wealthy people live in the city.

I mean, it's one thing to tax capital gains. It's an entirely other thing to think you can take 4% of your holdings PER YEAR. Give me an f'ng break.

It's pretty clear these fools don't even know how stocks work.

It's 0.4% but stilll...

They do not know. It's astonishing how these people get elected into politics. 0.4% of your holdings per year would wipe out many of your gains if you hold mostly blue chip stocks. There would be no point to have your primary residence in the city if you have any assets to your name.

I'm hoping this bill is dead on arrival but everyone in city council these days except for a select two or three of them seem as dumb as a bag of nails.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Sure fire way to guarantee NO wealthy people live in the city.

I mean, it's one thing to tax capital gains. It's an entirely other thing to think you can take 4% of your holdings PER YEAR. Give me an f'ng break.

It's pretty clear these fools don't even know how stocks work.

It's apparently a MAXIMUM rate (implying that it's graduated depending on level of holdings) of 4/10 of a percent (0.4%), and not a fixed rate of 4%. Not to say that it's a good idea, but might as well get the facts straight.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown

There was Roland's long-standing proposal for a large full-service hotel next to Frankford Hall, though clearly he's never been serious about seeing that through as it is now the longest-running vacant lot in the entire neighborhood. Fishtown does have a couple smaller "invisible service" hotels, including the second location of Lokal on Front Street, the Wm. Mulherins hotel (4 suites), and The Arch, which I believe is 11 apartments on Frankford next to Fishtown Social.

The hotel landscape has been pretty disrupted by Airbnb and the rise of short-term rentals and fully furnished apartments from providers like Sonder. A friend of mine recently came into two nights and after looking at a bunch of traditional hotel brands i ended up booking her an apartment at the Terrace on 18th (the former Embassy Suites where the new Victory Taproom is) because the first 10 or so floors are fully operated by Sonder, creating essentially a hotel within the apartment building even though Sonder's name appears nowhere. My point being that I imagine Fishtown and NoLibs will see arrangements like that before they get something like a Marriott. Apartment developers have started doing master lease agreements with operators like Sonder, especially when they're worried about being able to lease up lots of new supply. I could see it being very possible that Piazza Terminal will go partially this route. And as I type, a quick search reminds me that Sonder runs all the apartments at 1502 Frankford (where the Chase Bank and European Wax Center are).

So...there are a lot of places in Fishtown where one can book an overnight stay. But it would be cool and really fill a hole in the offerings I think to have a larger more fully branded hotel concept with a great lobby bar scene. I hope Roland's plans eventually come to fruition.

It’s a fair point. I still think a larger boutique hotel would do well in this market. Many business travelers aren’t allowed to book through AirBnB, and that and conference goers are two of the largest visitor groups for the city. More options bring in different types of consumers.

[Busy Bee]

This should be a federal level blanket tax. That's the solution here.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

This should be a federal level blanket tax. That's the solution here.

I agree. Something like this should be implemented at the Federal level. Even after nearly 100 years of losing businesses and tax revenue to nearby counties and towns due to having specific city taxes, it seems our elected officials have learned... nothing.

[philly_account12]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

Speaking of Girard, does anyone know what's planned for the SE corner of 8th and Girard? I noticed large pieces of equipment on the site of the old gas station while taking my train to the office this morning. It appears that all of Girard between 8th and Franklin Streets is fenced off at the moment. Additionally, it looks like site work has finally started on the building set to rise at 8th and Poplar.

The gas station lot pulled permits to demo the existing two story building last week. They either have a deal in place with a buyer (its no longer listed for sale online) or they're clearing the site to re-list it.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by summersm343

It's 0.4% but stilll...

They do not know. It's astonishing how these people get elected into politics. 0.4% of your holdings per year would wipe out many of your gains if you hold mostly blue chip stocks.

Again, not to defend this tax, but if your blue chip stocks are returning anywhere near an average annual return of only 0.4%, then you're in the wrong blue chip stocks--and arguably not in blue chips at all. Many blue-chip-oriented mutual funds have annual expense ratios in the range of 0.4%.

[skyhigh07]

https://www.inquirer.com/food/sansom-str...VGv1NNimQ3ELRmPjs-pIZVssAlR7Cb8O-jU3FsPs

Here’s yet another fun, out of touch policy City Council/this administration has pushed through…

[McBane]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Really dumb honestly. While I support something like this overall, this really should be done at the federal level to ensure equal playing field for all cities and municipalities in the country.

Philadelphia cannot be a leader on something like this. Philadelphia has already taxed itself into being one of the poorest cities in the nation with one of the weakest job markets. The city should be working NOW to reduce wage tax to 2% or below, and get rid of ridiculous business taxes like BIRT and Use & Occupancy taxes, among others.

We're going the OPPOSITE direction that we should be heading in city council. It's really amazing how shortsighted some of these people are. Do they know how easy it is for a wealthy resident to "move." Most of these people own multiple properties. They could easily "move" their primary residence out of the city to another property and there goes the entire tax base of that individual for the city. Period.

Until more cities pass taxes like this (NYC, Boston, San Fran, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas).... Philadelphia should NOT be the first to do it.

I was going to post something but your post captures my opinion perfectly. I don't care if it's 50 cents. The optics are awful for a city that already has a reputation for high taxes.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

This should be a federal level blanket tax. That's the solution here.

Yep. 100%

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

I agree. Something like this should be implemented at the Federal level. Even after nearly 100 years of losing businesses and tax revenue to nearby counties and towns due to having specific city taxes, it seems our elected officials have learned... nothing.

Yep. They haven't learned. They have the memory capacity of a goldfish. They're like a bunch of rabid dogs that keep chasing their tails in circles and keep biting their tails and crying out in pain... but never learn their lesson and continue to chase and bite their tail.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

Again, not to defend this tax, but if your blue chip stocks are returning anywhere near an average annual return of only 0.4%, then you're in the wrong blue chip stocks--and arguably not in blue chips at all. Many blue-chip-oriented mutual funds have annual expense ratios in the range of 0.4%.

I know. I did say "many" of your gains, not "all." I'm also being a touch overdramatic and exaggerative because this bill is idiotic and a waste of time and energy for a city council that should be battling how to tackle this gun violence, how to continue to clean up the city, how to improve QOL and how to rework the tax structure to ATTRACT residents and businesses in a city that's going to have to maneuver a rapidly changing post-pandemic world.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

https://www.inquirer.com/food/sansom-str...VGv1NNimQ3ELRmPjs-pIZVssAlR7Cb8O-jU3FsPs

Here’s yet another fun, out of touch policy City Council/this administration has pushed through…

Really stupid. The 1500 block and 1600 blocks of Sansom should be converted into pedestrian only plazas. There are officially no more garages or loading docks on these two blocks of Sansom, so there's no reason for traffic to drive down them. They should be converted to pedestrian only strips with more outdoor seating.

Maybe if the city wasn't busy taxing businesses and residents out of the city, or busy wasting taxpayer dollars defending themselves in a pointless lawsuit over 3900 Market that could've easily been avoided, then maybe they would actually have the funds to turn this stretch into a pedestrian plaza.

Oh, one can only dream of a world where 95% of our city council wasn't completely worthless and incompetent.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Yep. They haven't learned. They have the memory capacity of a goldfish. They're like a bunch of rabid dogs that keep chasing their tails in circles and keep biting their tails and crying out in pain... but never learn their lesson and continue to chase and bite their tail.

Or even a give and take approach, if this passes (let's hope not), then reduce or revise other forms of taxation. Slapping people with tax after tax will not change status quo, and yet no talk from that bunch about investing in startups, tech, life sciences, construction trades, citywide cleanups, etc... I'm lost at how Brooks, Gym, and Gauthier developed their logic of taxes make everything better, and all will "follow".

Let's hope this doesn't gain traction. I'm sure we will hear more since this will be presented this week.

Let's also hope the city loses the 3900 Market Street lawsuit (seems likely), and for KJ to lose his council seat and open it to a real politician.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

I thought No Libs/Fishtown would get a hotel before north of Temple hospital. Tbh, I’m surprised we haven’t seen a proposal for one on Delaware, Frankford, or Girard.

Fishtown does have slightly non-traditional hotels with both Archway and Mulherins.

https://archwayfishtown.com

[summersm343]

^^There's also Lokal hotel, which is a great little boutique.

Still, there is room for AT LEAST 2-3 hotels in NoLibs/Fishtown at this point.

The empty lot next to Frankford Hall is a disgrace. This needs to be developed ASAP - it would be the perfect spot for a hotel. It's about to be the last remaining empty lot on Frankford Ave between Girard and Columbia.

Also, does anyone remember the original plans for Sugarhouse Casino? There were originally two hotel towers planned on the property. It's a disgrace that what we're left with are these massive surface parking lots marring our waterfront. The city should be pushing the now "Rivers" Casino to develop these lots. Here's the only small rendering I could find of the original plans:


https://www.500nations.com/casinos/pa-rivers-casino-philadelphia.asp

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Fishtown does have slightly non-traditional hotels with both Archway and Mulherins.

https://archwayfishtown.com

I love people criticizing Roland Cassis for sitting on an empty lot in Fishtown when he literally created the commercial strip there. If it weren't for him, there would be nothing.

I know a few people connected to him and they're steadfast in that they don't develop for development's sake. They develop when a concept is interesting and will bring something new to the strip or neighborhood.

So, yes, while he owns that lot, he also owns many of the lots that are being converted into new uses, so let's just give the guy a chance. He also owns the Archway, which others have noted, is on Frankford Avenue and is a limited amenity hotel.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Really stupid. The 1500 block and 1600 blocks of Sansom should be converted into pedestrian only plazas. There are officially no more garages or loading docks on these two blocks of Sansom, so there's no reason for traffic to drive down them. They should be converted to pedestrian only strips with more outdoor seating.

Maybe if the city wasn't busy taxing businesses and residents out of the city, or busy wasting taxpayer dollars defending themselves in a pointless lawsuit over 3900 Market that could've easily been avoided, then maybe they would actually have the funds to turn this stretch into a pedestrian plaza.

Oh, one can only dream of a world where 95% of our city council wasn't completely worthless and incompetent.

I know. It would be really cool as a European-like pedestrian walkway with outdoor seating and live music. To think we had amazing and game changing new outdoor spaces like Dilworth Plaza under Nutter and now Kenney and gang seem to want to take us backwards. Frustrating.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I know. It would be really cool as a European-like pedestrian walkway with outdoor seating and live music. To think we had amazing and game changing new outdoor spaces like Dilworth Plaza under Nutter and now Kenney and gang seem to want to take us backwards. Frustrating.

Bring back Nutter! God I miss those days

[summersm343]

Viewpoint: Wealth Tax would make Philadelphia's population decline even worse

On Tuesday, City Councilmember Kendra Brooks (with Helen Gym and Jamie Gauthier) will introduce a Wealth Tax which will be imposed on individuals' stock holdings. Her justification for the tax is to address income inequality and to "break the status quo" of giving money and tax breaks to big companies and wealthy individuals.

This tax is yet another example of City Council's complete lack of understanding of basic economics.

First, let's do some rough math. The city's $5.4 billion budget covers about 1.5 million citizens. That means, on average, every person in the city must pay $3,600 to fund the budget. Thus, if a family of four isn't paying $14,400 in taxes each year, they are being subsidized by someone. With 26% of city residents living in extreme poverty and unable to pay virtually any taxes, guess who is subsidizing the city? Wealthy citizens and corporations — the very same constituents that Brooks claims are getting too many tax breaks.

This brings us to point two. Those who are subsidizing the city are mobile and, in a post-pandemic world, they will be even more mobile and, therefore, have more choices. They don't have to live or locate here. They can — and will — vote with their feet and leave or locate elsewhere if they continue to be taxed with impunity.

City Council fails to understand that they are in a competition for tax dollars with the suburbs and other regions and that we are by far the highest cost alternative. We are already one of the highest-taxed cities in the country and this wealth tax will just add one more reason to stay away. Brooks says the tax is only .4% but that tax is on top of what is already a ridiculous tax burden and could equal someone’s entire real estate tax bill on a nice home in the suburbs.

Unlike our poorest citizens who have no choice but to stay here, wealthy citizens and businesses have other options. City Council acts as if they are eternally anchored here and will accept whatever taxes are thrown at them. They won't.

Point three. Taxes (and the wealth redistribution that Brooks, Gym and Gauthier seek) are not a sustainable means of solving income inequality. The new tax will only exacerbate the problem because the subsidizers will leave the city for more tax friendly places taking their jobs with them. Don't believe people will leave? Philadelphia has already lost 28,000 citizens during the pandemic, according to Census data, one of the top 10 city attrition rates in the country.

Sustained income equality can only come from attracting businesses and the good paying jobs they bring with them. Taxes are anathema to business attraction and job creation. Just look at all the companies moving in droves to Texas and Florida — states with no income taxes. While federal governments may be able to raise taxes because very few people will leave their country, the same cannot be said for Philadelphia.

Until City Council learns basic economics and stops tilting at windmills, we will continue to struggle as a city and fail to reach our true potential. Now more than ever, City Council must work aggressively to attract those who can pay our bills and create new jobs, not act recklessly to drive them away.

Article behind paywall here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...cx_testVariant=cx_8&cx_artPos=2#cxrecs_s