Highways in Canada

[sonysnob]

^ Thanks for those. The new sections of both Highway 175 and 73 look very cool. I haven't driven that far into Quebec away from the TCH, but maybe one day.

[FrAnKs]

My pleasure ! ... excuse me but what is TCH ?

.... oh maybe Trans Canadian Highway

The most far away I've been driving in Ontario is both Sarnia & Sault-Ste-marie.... wich is not so bad for the moment.

[sonysnob]

Oui, la route transcanadienne.

[eternallyme]

IMO, 175 should have been designated as Autoroute 73 all the way to Saguenay. While not a freeway standard, there are Autoroutes that are not such. Maybe some could be built in the future?

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

IMO, 175 should have been designated as Autoroute 73 all the way to Saguenay

I don't know what it could change.

About 90% of the distance between Québec & Saguenay have been revised from 90 to 100km/h. It's already like an ''Autoroute'' except there isn't viaducts.
Aside that, there is paved shoulders, soft steep grades & curves, fences to avoid collision with wild fauna, longer exit & merge lanes and separated directions.

Hell, that route has the best road standards even if it's called Route 175 rather than A73.

This, and the fact that the MTQ will never built any ''Autoroute'' when the traffic flow a day is Under 10 000. (The route 175 actually has 4000-5000 a day) aswell as the
road is entering a national park. The A73 will be extended until the very beginning of it then will the Route 175 start when you're entering in the park.

[SignalHillHiker]

Last Sunday I drove to Marystown (300 km from St. John's) to become a Godfather for the first time. A cousin from Ottawa, his wife from Laos, and family/friends from Nova Scotia and Maryland got together for the Baptism. It was really nice! AND Marystown was probably the only place on the east coast of Newfoundland where it wasn't raining.

Anyhow, I filmed some scenes along the Burin Peninsula Highway. It's called the Heritage Run and links spectacular historic communities (Grand Bank, Burin, etc.) and some communities with a provincially significant population (Marystown) to the Trans Canada Highway and the rest of Newfoundland.

The highway isn't very old. My father (who is 60 years old) can still remember driving for 16 hours on the gravel coastal road that used to be the only land route to St. John's.

The real beauty of the Burin, though, is the landscape. hard to see in a cell phone video but the peninsula has vast highlands covered in huge boulders from glaciation, large and rolling hills with numerous peaks, deep and jagged valleys... it really is the second-most spectacular landscape on the island after Gros Mourne.

When you're driving down from St. Bernard's-Jacques Fontaine, to Terrenceville and Grand Le Pierre, on to Jean-de-Baie and Spanish Room, it's just... jaw-dropping. The hills aren't large, but they seem so unnaturally numerous.

The town you see at the end of this video is Swift Current. Here's the route from which these clips are from:



• Video Link

And a few pictures from several years ago.

The entrance to the highway from the Trans Canada Highway (and a skid mark from someone who said, "Aww, hell nah!" and went back to the city):



And some scenes along it:

[OTSkyline]

What irritates me? Highway 417/17 between North-Bay and Ottawa. There is a lot of traffic on this highway (especially during the summer or on weekends) and yet it is still a 2 lane road with few passing lanes and such. They are extending highway 417 and making it into a 4 lane highway but they have extended it by maybe 5km within the last 5-7 years... Things are moving so slow and they haven't even crossed Arnprior yet... How long until they actually work fast and the highway is extended all the way to North-Bay?

Look at the Highway 11 that was upgraded to a 4 lane highway from North Bay to Toronto... such a smooth drive and makes things a lot faster and less congested...

*On a side note, anyone know of a website where we can find the stats on highway traffic in Canada?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

What irritates me? Highway 417/17 between North-Bay and Ottawa. There is a lot of traffic on this highway (especially during the summer or on weekends) and yet it is still a 2 lane road with few passing lanes and such. They are extending highway 417 and making it into a 4 lane highway but they have extended it by maybe 5km within the last 5-7 years... Things are moving so slow and they haven't even crossed Arnprior yet... How long until they actually work fast and the highway is extended all the way to North-Bay?

Look at the Highway 11 that was upgraded to a 4 lane highway from North Bay to Toronto... such a smooth drive and makes things a lot faster and less congested...

*On a side note, anyone know of a website where we can find the stats on highway traffic in Canada?

There are no plans to divide that highway on the Ottawa Valley section any further than the Pembroke-Petawawa area. And even that's medium to long term I'd say.

I also think there might be preliminary plans to divide from Mattawa to North Bay, although this may be a lesser priority than North Bay-Sudbury which is actually quite busy as well.

Here is a page for traffic on Ontario highways only:
http://www.raqsb.mto.gov.on.ca/techpubs/TrafficVolumes.nsf/tvweb?OpenForm&Seq=1

[eternallyme]

Re: 17 through the Ottawa Valley - up to Pembroke/Petawawa (AADT 9,000 to 15,000) BADLY needs upgrading and widening to 4 lanes and should have been done years ago. Those traffic counts up to Renfrew are already over capacity, while beyond there to Petawawa are near capacity. There are a LOT of accidents, many of them fatal, on that highway stretch as well. Bad design + bad drivers + high traffic = accidents. Bad drivers often are the cause too.

From Petawawa to Mattawa is not very busy (AADT about 4,000). Also the cost of expanding would be very high as it runs through very hilly/near-mountainous terrain adjacent to deep valleys and gorges along the Ottawa River. It would be nice for it to be 4 lanes, but that would be very expensive given the traffic counts.

Beyond Mattawa, traffic slowly increases again. Once near North Bay, it reaches the point where 4 lanes are again warranted, but mainly for a 20 km or so stretch. I agree, the section from North Bay to (past) Sudbury is much busier though...

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

What irritates me? Highway 417/17 between North-Bay and Ottawa. There is a lot of traffic on this highway (especially during the summer or on weekends) and yet it is still a 2 lane road with few passing lanes and such. They are extending highway 417 and making it into a 4 lane highway but they have extended it by maybe 5km within the last 5-7 years... Things are moving so slow and they haven't even crossed Arnprior yet... How long until they actually work fast and the highway is extended all the way to North-Bay?

Look at the Highway 11 that was upgraded to a 4 lane highway from North Bay to Toronto... such a smooth drive and makes things a lot faster and less congested...

*On a side note, anyone know of a website where we can find the stats on highway traffic in Canada?

Remember that it's taken decades to upgrade Hwy 11 too though (same for 400/69)

MTO has interactive traffic data (and a couple of PDFs) for Ontario provincial highways on its website. But it's a few years out of date.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/trafficvolumes.shtml
http://www.raqsa.mto.gov.on.ca/techpubs/TrafficVolumes.nsf/tvweb
(oops - this was already posted by someone)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Re: 17 through the Ottawa Valley - up to Pembroke/Petawawa (AADT 9,000 to 15,000) BADLY needs upgrading and widening to 4 lanes and should have been done years ago. Those traffic counts up to Renfrew are already over capacity, while beyond there to Petawawa are near capacity. There are a LOT of accidents, many of them fatal, on that highway stretch as well. Bad design + bad drivers + high traffic = accidents. Bad drivers often are the cause too.

From Petawawa to Mattawa is not very busy (AADT about 4,000). Also the cost of expanding would be very high as it runs through very hilly/near-mountainous terrain adjacent to deep valleys and gorges along the Ottawa River. It would be nice for it to be 4 lanes, but that would be very expensive given the traffic counts.

Beyond Mattawa, traffic slowly increases again. Once near North Bay, it reaches the point where 4 lanes are again warranted, but mainly for a 20 km or so stretch. I agree, the section from North Bay to (past) Sudbury is much busier though...

Yup. I checked and AADT on the Petawawa-Mattawa and most of it is even below 3000. 2700, 2600...

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yup. I checked and AADT on the Petawawa-Mattawa and most of it is even below 3000. 2700, 2600...

Still, I would get aggressive in the more populated parts of the Ottawa Valley - Arnprior to Renfrew is about 15,000, and it stays just below 10,000 towards Pembroke/Petawawa. The cost wouldn't be too high (relatively speaking) since the biggest hurdle is the Bonnechere River bridge; the terrain is quite forgiving and there are no other major water crossings (the Madawaska River bridge is completed).

There are two major causes of accidents in that section: the intersections (most of which now are signal-controlled) and head-on collisions, especially on the long straight sections. The passing lanes are another problem IMO; they are often used for off-side passing (i.e. passing on the opposing side) and become bottlenecks at their ends.

The traffic signals - which are badly needed from a safety perspective - also can create long traffic delays, especially on long weekends. Thankfully the lights in Arnprior (which were a nightmare) are gone!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Still, I would get aggressive in the more populated parts of the Ottawa Valley - Arnprior to Renfrew is about 15,000, and it stays just below 10,000 towards Pembroke/Petawawa. The cost wouldn't be too high (relatively speaking) since the biggest hurdle is the Bonnechere River bridge; the terrain is quite forgiving and there are no other major water crossings (the Madawaska River bridge is completed).

There are two major causes of accidents in that section: the intersections (most of which now are signal-controlled) and head-on collisions, especially on the long straight sections. The passing lanes are another problem IMO; they are often used for off-side passing (i.e. passing on the opposing side) and become bottlenecks at their ends.

The traffic signals - which are badly needed from a safety perspective - also can create long traffic delays, especially on long weekends. Thankfully the lights in Arnprior (which were a nightmare) are gone!

Agreed. Those numbers are more than sufficient to justify four-laning/dividing. Actually, 15,000 is starting to get dangerous.

[Innsertnamehere]

I would argue that the 417 to Petawawa should be one of the highest priorities for the province, along with the Highway 7 Twinning between Waterloo and Guelph. I would love it if they announced either one for the 2014 budget. the 427 Extension they announced this year I find is rather pointless.

[haljackey]

Generally for rural provincial highways 10,000 is enough to justify some upgrades: 4 laning, divided highway or freeway.

Regarding 417, I'd like to see it extended a bit past Petawawa. A 17 freeway would also be awesome between Sault St. Marie and Sudbury and to North Bay too. If not then just a divided 4 lane highway would be nice.

427 extension is justified in my mind. Looking at that volume chart is enough to see why it is needed.
-Is the Bradford Bypass still on the books? If so the 427 should be extended from Major Mackenzie to wherever it runs.

Will 406 get extended any time soon? 410 could use one too as volumes on the 10 are quite high. Maybe extend this to the proposed Halton-Peel freeway?


I think all these extensions are more justified than the 401's extension, which will a road to nowhere past the E.C. Row expressway until a new border crossing is built. (2020 maybe, but I really, really doubt it.)

[Innsertnamehere]

extending the 427 to Barrie is unnecessary IMO. The 400 needs some relief, and it should be 8 laned to fix it, not have a second highway built.

I could see 17 twinned (full freeway) between North Bay and Sudbury, and south of Petawawa, but that is about it. Both those are huge projects though, 100+ km for each one. (which is about the same as the current project of bringing the 400 to Sudbury)

I also still think the most useless highway extension on the books currently is the 407 east of the first connector to the 401. (but especially the portion connecting to 35)

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

extending the 427 to Barrie is unnecessary IMO. The 400 needs some relief, and it should be 8 laned to fix it, not have a second highway built.

400 is planned to get 10-laned to Barrie. 8 lanes + 2 HOVs. The same setup is proposed for the 401 to Kitchener.

Having the 427 run parallel the whole way is excessive. I'd much rather have a 410 extension as at least that goes diagonal.

I think some of the more difficult stretches of Highway 17 could be built like BC-99 north of Vancouver (Sea to Sky Highway). Some 4 lane parts, some 2 lanes. Some interchanges, some intersections. Just something more than it is now.

[ssiguy]

They should also extend the 402 at Strathroy eastward north of London to connect at the 403 at Woodstock.

This was the original route of the 402 until politics got in the way near London's tony North End. The 401 stretch between London and Woodstock is very busy and the amount of transport traffic is unbelievable and is getting downright dangerous. A 402 route would also allow people in the northern half of London {which is also it's fastest growing} to get to Toronto in a reasonable time.

The 401 only just touches the southern tip of the city and then heads Northeast to Toronto. I know of a couple people who no longer take the 401 to Kit/Tor as London has no freeways and getting from northern London to the 401 is far to time consuming so they take HWY#4 north to HWY#8 east to Stratford/Kitchener and then get on the 401 at Kitchener. It's a more pleasant drive and in rush hour, much faster.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by haljackey

400 is planned to get 10-laned to Barrie. 8 lanes + 2 HOVs. The same setup is proposed for the 401 to Kitchener.

Having the 427 run parallel the whole way is excessive. I'd much rather have a 410 extension as at least that goes diagonal.

I think some of the more difficult stretches of Highway 17 could be built like BC-99 north of Vancouver (Sea to Sky Highway). Some 4 lane parts, some 2 lanes. Some interchanges, some intersections. Just something more than it is now.

That sounds quite fair for 17.

Arnprior to Petawawa definitely should be built as a full 4-lane freeway immediately as ALL the major intersections are signal-warranted and even those are beyond capacity (not to mention VERY dangerous!). Once beyond there, bypassing towns on 2-lane alignments with occasional 4-lane sections with intersections is probably reasonable (on a defined freeway alignment for the long term) as there are no intersections beyond Deep River that are beyond capacity until at least Mattawa. The Mattawa bypass needs to be built ASAP as well, although 2 lanes with limited intersections is probably sufficient.

The last 20 km or so to North Bay should be built as a freeway, as well as through North Bay (AADT about 30,000 there) and onward towards Sudbury. The section west of North Bay is a VERY difficult one as well - constrained by a First Nations reserve that it runs through and situated on a cliff for the most part. Yet the traffic counts there (about 10,000) probably warrant something significant. It becomes pretty much a piece of cake the rest of the way to Sudbury.

[sonysnob]

I am thinking of driving from Toronto to Thunder Bay this weekend actually. The views from Hwy 17 around Lk Superior are amazing. Plus, I'd like to check out the construction between Thunder Bay and Nipigon. (Though the idea of driving two days for the construction seems somewhat ridiculous). I'd like to go through the states on the way back. I have this idea that Duluth is somehow a cool city, and I'd love to find out once and for all that it isn't.