Housing Bubble II: The Quest To Build Enough Homes Where People Actually Need Them

[giallo]

• Video Link

[trueviking]

I've grown tired of the canadian housing situation being defined by toronto and vancouver....toronto in particular has become a global city....of course housing is going to be expensive....its just a reality like new york or london.

you don't see incessant news articles about the american housing crisis because people can't afford to live in San Fransisco.....if you cant afford it, don't live there.

its a big country.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I've grown tired of the canadian housing situation being defined by toronto and vancouver....toronto in particular has become a global city....of course housing is going to be expensive....its just a reality like new york or london.

you don't see incessant news articles about the american housing crisis because people can't afford to live in San Fransisco.....if you cant afford it, don't live there.

its a big country.

Well Toronto isn't quite a world class city. Doesn't have anythwere near the 100s of thousands of high paying jobs of NY or Bay Area. New York also has affordable houses.

30 minutes no traffic to Midtown or under an hour by train:
All for $699k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...38682557_zpid/

[trueviking]

I didn't say it's world class...i said it's a global city.....the media seems to think the high housing costs in Toronto are representative of a Canadian a problem...it is a Toronto problem.

can't you find the same in Ajax or Pickering?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Well Toronto isn't quite a world class city. Doesn't have anythwere near the 100s of thousands of high paying jobs of NY or Bay Area. New York also has affordable houses.

30 minutes no traffic to Midtown or under an hour by train:
All for $699k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...38682557_zpid/

So that house is CAD $952,000.00

That's affordable?!?! Did you see that property taxes alone are over 18 grand U.S. per year!?! That's about $25,000 CAD per year in property taxes!!! Affordable?!?

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I didn't say it's world class...i said it's a global city.....the media seems to think the high housing costs in Toronto are representative of a Canadian a problem...it is a Toronto problem.

can't you find the same in Ajax or Pickering?

No.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I didn't say it's world class...i said it's a global city.....the media seems to think the high housing costs in Toronto are representative of a Canadian a problem...it is a Toronto problem.

can't you find the same in Ajax or Pickering?

Maybe you should have researched the answer to this question before confidently declaring that housing affordability is only a Toronto problem. Did you just wake up from a 10 year cryogenic sleep or something?

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I didn't say it's world class...i said it's a global city.....the media seems to think the high housing costs in Toronto are representative of a Canadian a problem...it is a Toronto problem.

If it were just a Toronto problem, our national housing costs-to-income ratio wouldn't look like this:




Not sure if you've looked around at prices anywhere lately (or even just paid the slightest bit of attention to this thread over the past decade), but it's not just a Toronto & Vancouver problem anymore: it's an everywhere-in-Ontario & BC, Montreal, Calgary, Halifax, etc. problem now too. Nationally, housing prices have doubled in the past decade.

I get that Winnipeg is a bit of a bubble as part of the small & shrinking club of relatively affordable cities left in Canada, but it's the exception - not Toronto & Vancouver. An expensive city or two is one thing, but it matters when most of the country's population - and in particular, it's economic engines - are in places that have become unaffordable.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by trueviking

you don't see incessant news articles about the american housing crisis because people can't afford to live in San Fransisco.....if you cant afford it, don't live there.

Also, you most certainly do hear about the housing crisis in the US, along with many other countries experiencing similar issues. It's not nearly as severe as it is here (after all, the Canadian housing shortage & cost-to-income ratio is arguably the worst in the developed world), but there too it's a big problem - especially for young people & newcomers - as housing costs have similarly outpaced income growth in much of the country. Eg:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...-2024-election
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/b...ng-crisis.html

[Build.It]

People from other developed countries move to New York, San Francisco and London.

People from Toronto move to other developed countries.

We are nowhere close to that tier, yet it costs as much as those cities.

New York is expensive because they are the mecca of capitalism with tons of extremely high paying jobs.

San Francisco is expensive because they are the tech capital of the world, where engineers starting salaries are $150K per year.

Toronto is expensive because our country allows millions of people to move here per year and we don't allow mass scale development to occur (to keep up with the population growth).

In terms of "importance" Toronto is much closer to Houston or Dallas, than NY or San Francisco. Don't let the cost of living fool you into thinking otherwise.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Also, you most certainly do hear about the housing crisis in the US, along with many other countries experiencing similar issues. It's not nearly as severe as it is here (after all, the Canadian housing shortage & cost-to-income ratio is arguably the worst in the developed world), but there too it's a big problem - especially for young people & newcomers - as housing costs have similarly outpaced income growth in much of the country. Eg:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...-2024-election
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/b...ng-crisis.html

Not just the US, but in Australia and New Zealand, the housing crisis looms large in daily life. UK too.

"It's not happening to me, so it can't be that big of a big deal"

I find people that live in areas unaffected by this crisis or already own a home that's paid off think it's not that bad. Come to Southern BC, Southern Ontario, Halifax, and now Calgary and Montreal (aka most of the country's populated areas), and tell me everything is fine for renters or first time home buyers. Rents are insane in most of these areas. Housing is, as the video states, "impossibly unaffordable".

As I write this, Edmonton's prices are steadily increasing as more and more people get pushed out of BC, Calgary and Ontario. Winnipeg will be next.

[niwell]

Toronto and Vancouver were very much the proverbial canaries in the coal mine in our situation. It’s now been spreading outwards rapidly - it wasn’t that long ago that Calgary was on the “affordable” side of things but that’s quickly changed.

Van is maybe a bit different but Toronto is exacerbated by the fact there actually are a lot of people with high paying jobs that own property and are pretty insulated to the situation. So long as they didn’t over-leverage themselves when money was free. My area is full of them, as evidenced by the fancy cars on the street and amount of renovations going on. Lots owned by families in finance/law/tech around my age. Even those who have been renting for a while are relatively fine so long as they don’t get renovicted - I don’t think I know anyone in our social circle paying anywhere close to market rent. But for those starting their careers even in high paying professions it’s very difficult - my wife has coworkers in their 20s making over $100k living with roommates. I was doing the same at that age but making a fraction of the wage.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by giallo

"It's not happening to me, so it can't be that big of a big deal"

At this point, ignorance or denial of the housing crisis is mark of idiocy, ignorance and delusion for me. No different than denying COVID or climate change. These people will never change. Their views are not motivated by reason. No point engaging.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by giallo

Not just the US, but in Australia and New Zealand, the housing crisis looms large in daily life. UK too.

"It's not happening to me, so it can't be that big of a big deal"

I find people that live in areas unaffected by this crisis or already own a home that's paid off think it's not that bad. Come to Southern BC, Southern Ontario, Halifax, and now Calgary and Montreal (aka most of the country's populated areas), and tell me everything is fine for renters or first time home buyers. Rents are insane in most of these areas. Housing is, as the video states, "impossibly unaffordable".

And I write this, Edmonton's prices are steadily increasing as more and more people get pushed out of BC, Calgary and Ontario. Winnipeg will be next.

Winnipeg is already there. Housing prices continue to rise and more and more immigrants pour into the city. Traffic in the city is absolutely insane compared to a decade ago. So much productivity lost sitting in traffic, not to mention the environmental impact. Winnipeg is almost a million people now and we don’t have a single freeway or an efficient transit system either. We don’t have a rapid transit system for moving people around. It’s a nightmare. I avoid the city at all costs now go in about once a month.

Thanks Justin for lowering my quality of life!

[Hecate]

Not to mention the increase in homelessness drug abuse/addiction and crime.

[Hecate]

I work with a woman who just moved here with her family from Toronto. They left because they wanted their kids to grow up in a detached house with a yard. Which they could never have afforded in Toronto. They had been saving for a house since their daughter was born… 13 years ago.

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by giallo

• Video Link

I know the youtube thumbnail and some of the footages they showed are of the dense part of those two cities. So it may look like wow they're already packed with no space left. However, let's just take a step back and look at what Vancouver really looks like... and you'll see very clearly why we have an unaffordability crisis. A sea of single family houses that already ruined the existing nature and zero heritage to speak of.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

I know the youtube thumbnail and some of the footages they showed are of the dense part of those two cities. So it may look like wow they're already packed with no space left. However, let's just take a step back and look at what Vancouver really looks like... and you'll see very clearly why we have an unaffordability crisis. A sea of single family houses that already ruined the existing nature and zero heritage to speak of.

Restrictive zoning is of course a piece of the puzzle, but it's not the singular reason as to why Vancouver is so unaffordable. After all, it's not as if the zoning in Vancouver is any more restrictive than anywhere else in North America. On the contrary, Toronto and Vancouver are North America's two most densely populated urban areas, and amongst the most multi-family oriented.

The City of Vancouver has also since loosened zoning laws somewhat to permit a minimum of 4 units/lot city-wide. A much-welcomed move; but just as that wasn't the singular cause of its housing crisis, it's no singular panacea for it either.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by theman23

Maybe you should have researched the answer to this question before confidently declaring that housing affordability is only a Toronto problem. Did you just wake up from a 10 year cryogenic sleep or something?

Nah, I think he just woke up in Winnipeg.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by giallo

Not just the US, but in Australia and New Zealand, the housing crisis looms large in daily life. UK too.

"It's not happening to me, so it can't be that big of a big deal"

I find people that live in areas unaffected by this crisis or already own a home that's paid off think it's not that bad. Come to Southern BC, Southern Ontario, Halifax, and now Calgary and Montreal (aka most of the country's populated areas), and tell me everything is fine for renters or first time home buyers. Rents are insane in most of these areas. Housing is, as the video states, "impossibly unaffordable".

As I write this, Edmonton's prices are steadily increasing as more and more people get pushed out of BC, Calgary and Ontario. Winnipeg will be next.

Hmm, what could the common factor have been in the housing market in Australia, New Zealand and Metro Vancouver have been over the last 15 years?