Phoenix Development News (3)

[PHXFireBirds]

Has anyone heard about Wells Fargo leaving the Wells Fargo Plaza building? I heard they didn't renew their lease.

[Diamonddave]

NYC2ATX brings up a good question as my memory recalls there have bee many towers proposed in mid town but the opposition came from neighborhoods not the FAA

[combusean]

I think Park Central has zoning for 750' and Toll Brothers also had somewhere around 650 feet for their 31 E Thomas lot before they built 5 stories of apartments instead.

But a few new tallests for that area isn't going to somehow make it Phoenix's "urban core"...midtown isn't walkable and nobody's building any highrises there anyways. That kind of demand isn't there for residential or office and probably won't be for a while.

[jvbahn]

Concerning Wells Fargo, my ex who works there just told me that they have already left the building, and most staff will be working from home in the future. Not sure if they have plans for a reduced presence somewhere else, but it doesn’t seem like it.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by combusean

I think Park Central has zoning for 750' and Toll Brothers also had somewhere around 650 feet for their 31 E Thomas lot before they built 5 stories of apartments instead.

But a few new tallests for that area isn't going to somehow make it Phoenix's "urban core"...midtown isn't walkable and nobody's building any highrises there anyways. That kind of demand isn't there for residential or office and probably won't be for a while.

Well doesn’t midtown exist for this very reason? Allow for much taller buildings than is possible downtown due to the airport? I mean there was a proposal in the 80s for the ‘worlds tallest’ at Central & Indian school at one point. IIRC, NIMBY opposition killed that and forced the city to ask him to chop it up into 4x 40 story buildings instead. At the time, that building would have been tall enough to house all available office space in the valley. Heck, I thought I remember reading about the Financial Center (Punch Card building) was supposed to have another much taller building on that site. I’m sure there were many other proposals - I do recall reading about some of them on this very forum years ago.

I think he’s right - between the 7’s and McDowell to Camelback is likely where the real density will move given some time.

[Prestige Worldwide]

Originally Posted by PHXFireBirds

Has anyone heard about Wells Fargo leaving the Wells Fargo Plaza building? I heard they didn't renew their lease.

I thought Wells Fargo owned the building, at least property records show them as the owners of the underlying ground (they also control the parking garage across from Crescent Ballroom). My understanding is that their ownership interest in the building and parking is what keeps them grounded to the Downtown location, but yes it would not be surprising to see them leave. Chase leaving for their suburban campus is an indicator that Wells might be plotting the same move and selling their Downtown real estate holdings.

That building is a old dog and will suffer from the same uncertain future as the Chase Tower. Probably repurposed for residential eventually.

[combusean]

The proposal for the WTB never went anywhere because it was completely unrealistic and the developer, more like some crackpot visionary from Italy, didn't even do a feasibility study as the city requested.

I have a newspapers.com account so maybe I'll do some fun research about it and the Landmark Capital Tower which was I believe Phoenix's 2nd-tallest proposal--also, feel free and DM me or post something interesting if you want me to look up something about it as I have access to the archives of the Phoenix Gazette and the Republic and some other old stuff.

Anyways, midtown exists because it was free of the grime and squalor of downtown that had been creeping for a while, even long before WW2 with the advent of streetcar suburbs. After WW2, Central Avenue was already the city's signature boulevard with high land values (it had a lot of mansions and estates prior to towers) and the development of Park Central signaled the death knell for downtown retail until the 1970s.

It was the Central Phoenix Plan of 1971 that did envision unlimited building heights along Central from 3rd to 3rd with a 500' to 250' height limit from 3rds to the 7ths. This is represented by the HR zoning district at https://phoenix.municipal.codes/ZO/632, but I don't think anyone would be rezoning to that today with PUDs and WUs taking over.

But speaking of zoning, it turns out that the approved Urban Form plan for downtown is causing a LOT of problems with developers as they were collectively filing for a bevy of zoning code text amendments over the last several months of 2020, each of which is the worst incarnation of spot-zoning I've ever seen. Apparently developers are having to go this route instead of the much easier variance process.

https://www.phoenix.gov/pdd/planning...zstaff-reports

I'm curious to see why this hasn't been brought up before. Planning and Council seem to be dropping the ball here.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by Prestige Worldwide

I thought Wells Fargo owned the building, at least property records show them as the owners of the underlying ground (they also control the parking garage across from Crescent Ballroom). My understanding is that their ownership interest in the building and parking is what keeps them grounded to the Downtown location, but yes it would not be surprising to see them leave. Chase leaving for their suburban campus is an indicator that Wells might be plotting the same move and selling their Downtown real estate holdings.

That building is a old dog and will suffer from the same uncertain future as the Chase Tower. Probably repurposed for residential eventually.

Interesting...they closed down the WF Museum middle of last year as well. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. If they end up selling the land they owe, would be good to see the garage next to WF Plaza demolished as well as the one in front of Crescent. Can't have the state's tallest building next to an ugly, parking garage

[CrestedSaguaro]

Found a really good drone video of X Society (still ugly IMHO). Has some really good views of Downtown Phoenix and you can see many of our current developments in the background.

Enjoy!

• Video Link

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

Found a really good drone video of X Society (still ugly IMHO). Has some really good views of Downtown Phoenix and you can see many of our current developments in the background.

Enjoy!

Funny, I know the guy that posted that. Didn't know he was into construction drone videos though. Nice find.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Funny, I know the guy that posted that. Didn't know he was into construction drone videos though. Nice find.

Maybe you can get him to do some more

[xymox]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

Maybe you can get him to do some more

Do you need a permit to fly downtown?

[CrestedSaguaro]

The Phoenix City Council approved additional height code map for the Blue/Thunderbird Legacy tower at 250' (reduced from the 270' proposed height). Approval was unanimous.

The new reduced height was a compromise to allow for the current conservation easement to continue for 1 more year and then a new conservation easement will be created for 3 of the 4 remaining warehouse walls for the next 30 years.

Construction or partial demolition cannot commence during the remainder of the current easement (ending February 2022). I don't think construction would have started until 2022 anyway, so no real loss there. Gives us something to look forward to next year.

[Diamonddave]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

The Phoenix City Council approved additional height code map for the Blue/Thunderbird Legacy tower at 250' (reduced from the 270' proposed height). Approval was unanimous.

The new reduced height was a compromise to allow for the current conservation easement to continue for 1 more year and then a new conservation easement will be created for 3 of the 4 remaining warehouse walls for the next 30 years.

Construction or partial demolition cannot commence during the remainder of the current easement (ending February 2022). I don't think construction would have started until 2022 anyway, so no real loss there. Gives us something to look forward to next year.

That's great news I can live with 20' reduction now only if the Jefferson can get rolling.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

The Phoenix City Council approved additional height code map for the Blue/Thunderbird Legacy tower at 250' (reduced from the 270' proposed height). Approval was unanimous.

The new reduced height was a compromise to allow for the current conservation easement to continue for 1 more year and then a new conservation easement will be created for 3 of the 4 remaining warehouse walls for the next 30 years.

Construction or partial demolition cannot commence during the remainder of the current easement (ending February 2022). I don't think construction would have started until 2022 anyway, so no real loss there. Gives us something to look forward to next year.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...ial-tower.html

[gymratmanaz]

Wish I could see it. That sounds like great news.....in the future!

[Diamonddave]

Question does anyone know or heard of whats going on with the Hyatt garage FRP ?

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Diamonddave

Question does anyone know or heard of whats going on with the Hyatt garage FRP ?

I'm not sure, but I've noticed that Steve's Greenhouse Grill, which was a longtime tenant on the ground floor, has closed permanently. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the pandemic since so much of their clientele came from the convention center. At this point, the Arizona Latino Arts and Cultural (ALAC) store seems to be the only occupied space. I thinks something called PHX Commons was supposed to go in the old Matador space, but that never happened.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I'm not sure, but I've noticed that Steve's Greenhouse Grill, which was a longtime tenant on the ground floor, has closed permanently. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the pandemic since so much of their clientele came from the convention center. At this point, the Arizona Latino Arts and Cultural (ALAC) store seems to be the only occupied space. I thinks something called PHX Commons was supposed to go in the old Matador space, but that never happened.

ALAC will probably shutter soon as well as they plan the move to Hance Park. I remember PHX Commons being mentioned but probably figured what's the point if/when the garage comes down.

I posted a couple of pages back an update where the City is still in negotiations w/ the developer, Berger Holdings. Needless to say, even if there is an agreement in place soon, no way it is ready before the Super Bowl in Feb 2023. (which is funny because I remember this being a key reason why this proposal was chosen. Obviously, the pandemic delayed negotiations, etc). Berger keeps dragging their feet with The Edith too.

My gut feeling tells me negotiations fall through and back to the drawing board as the RFP gets re-issued.

[Diamonddave]

I agree Diablo then we're back like Central station.