CHICAGO | General Developments

[BWChicago]

Any DePaul student - any one - is used to taking a bus, a train, a bike, or their feet to get around. It's still a largely commuter school. It's not at all unusual to have some classes in the Loop and some in Lincoln Park. They go all over for nightlife, and Finkl isn't much farther from campus than Clark Street is. The argument that it has to be on campus holds no water at all.

[marothisu]

While I agree that DePaul students commute sometimes and go all over for nightlife and sometimes classes, I don't think this should have any bearing on where to put an arena. If you are a college program in a major sports conference (for now), you want your arena to be close-ish to your central campus. Does it have to be RIGHT there? No, I don't think so, but putting it 3+ miles away from campus is not good IMO. Putting an arena at the Finkl site, for example, puts in motion the "ability" to expand campus in that direction and creates a more continuous college atmosphere by placing things closer to campus. You will not find MOST major sports programs like this. Most of them have arenas and stadiums that are either on campus or not that far from it. Not miles away.

[jdcpamba]

Alumni Hall held over 5.000 people and hosted Womens and some Mens basketball games, and hosted NCAA tournament games. I know the proposed stadium will be bigger, but the area can handle basketball crowds.

I agree most DePaul students are used to commuting. They can take the blue line and a bus to Allstate Arena without ever driving. The fact is they don't.

The Fullerton stop feeds a number of CTA lines that cover most of the city. If you are trying to drive people to use public transportation, the corner of Halsted and Fullerton is about as good as it gets.

I also find it ironic on a forum that attacks NIMBYs for their attacks on projects due to their concerns about traffic, we now have a problem with a DePaul stadium because of traffic.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by jdcpamba

I also find it ironic on a forum that attacks NIMBYs for their attacks on projects due to their concerns about traffic, we now have a problem with a DePaul stadium because of traffic.

^ Clearly you can tell the difference between a bunch of self interested residents raising high hell to prevent any type of dense development next door due to perceived traffic/shadows versus people who want to see a large entertainment venue located as close as possible to the transportation axes that will get the greatest number of people there without overcoming the existing infrastructure available to serve it.

[Mr Downtown]

Under some of the theories I see espoused here there's no need for DePaul to leave Rosemont. After all, it's only a 2.5-mile walk from the Blue Line.

Let's remember that people don't consider United Center to be accessible by transit, and it's only 0.4 miles from station entrance to arena door.

[brian_b]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Let's remember that people don't consider United Center to be accessible by transit, and it's only 0.4 miles from station entrance to arena door.

People also need to remember that the number 1 reason for a new arena is to help DePaul recruit better basketball players and win more games.

A small arena off campus isn't going to help.

[Swicago Swi Sox]

Originally Posted by brian_b

People also need to remember that the number 1 reason for a new arena is to help DePaul recruit better basketball players and win more games.

A small arena off campus isn't going to help.

I guess the question is do you consider Finkel on-campus or off-campus? Personally, it is way more on-campus that McCormick Place or the United Center.

There are other positives too. It would be right on the river and would blend in with already in place shopping and restaurants/bars in the area on Clybourn. It would probably spur more development between Clybourn and the river with more retail and restaurants and housing. Seems like a great way to extend that neighborhood beyond Clybourn into an area that had previously been industrial.

[paytonc]

Originally Posted by Kenmore

Most of the drama... has a really nasty racist overtone.

Oh geez, that's still going on?
http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago...nt?oid=4251888

There was always going to be trouble integrating a LGBT community center serving the entire city into one of the richest, whitest corners of town -- and merely because the evening entertainment of one highly visible (rich, white, male) subset of LGBT people happens to focus on one street.

But basically, it illustrates why it's dangerous for outsiders to assume that "the LGBT community" does not really exist as a single entity, despite the claim of marketers like these hotel developers.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by jdcpamba

Alumni Hall held over 5.000 people and hosted Womens and some Mens basketball games, and hosted NCAA tournament games. I know the proposed stadium will be bigger, but the area can handle basketball crowds.

I agree most DePaul students are used to commuting. They can take the blue line and a bus to Allstate Arena without ever driving. The fact is they don't.

The Fullerton stop feeds a number of CTA lines that cover most of the city. If you are trying to drive people to use public transportation, the corner of Halsted and Fullerton is about as good as it gets.

I also find it ironic on a forum that attacks NIMBYs for their attacks on projects due to their concerns about traffic, we now have a problem with a DePaul stadium because of traffic.

Okay, let's take a step back and not get angry and off topic Very few people here have special interests in that neighborhood. This discussion is entirely focused on the theory (or personal opinions to be more particular) that an arena located on campus would be more successful than one off campus....pertaining specifically to the Finkl site. The disagreement appears to be on that point only.

The discussion of traffic, transit access, convenience, and the local economy are just weighing in the benefits of each site.

I can't see any compelling evidence that walking 4 blocks south and 4 blocks west would negatively impact the program. We have no way of measuring when the existing facility is out in the suburbs. All we know is the situation will probably improve being NEAR campus. But will the Finkl site vs...say the fullerton stop...make much of a difference? That is where I am doubtful of your argument. If they want to build an arena right on their existing Lincoln Park campus...excellent. Make sure it's a really good design. Who here is objecting? Personally, I was only weighing options why I thought the Finkl site was better in some instances. But I do admit access is less desirable for anyone not coming in the general direction of DePaul, but from across the city.

Will it hurt recruiting? Seriously is anyone here an expert on that? If there is, please excuse me. What knowledge I do have is knowing DePaul students and that they don't mind walking to get a bite to eat a few blocks from campus or switching between the LP and downtown campus. I'm sure on campus or the steelworks would be immensely beneficial at least regarding attendance vs a remote stadium.

Seriously, I hope you are reading what I'm saying because it sure doesn't seem like it. We don't need to start call people NIMBY's when DePaul has made zero indication that they want to put this right on campus.. The arena was floated for the Finkl site years ago when they announced a move to the south side.

[nergie]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,7293369.story

Like I need another reason to despise the state of Texas and its population. God I wish the whole state would just go away.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by nergie

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,7293369.story

Like I need another reason to despise the state of Texas and its population. God I wish the whole state would just go away.

Doing a little digging, alot of the recent developments pointed to on that site appear to be ancillary businesses that support the energy sector. Their headliner is a pipe manufacturer.......like oil pipelines.

Oh sure, alot of manufacturing has already receded in this state quite a bit. Go ahead an pick apart the leftovers if they are that willing to bail on us and aren't already planted in northern indiana. But let's also not forget that some industries locate here for a reason, whether it's access to our waterways and railroads, raw resources or critical supply chains in the great lakes region.

The water comment, as much of a "So There!" comment as it seems holds some weight. The agriculture industry down there may take a hit with new upcoming water restrictions. Keeping potable water supply available for drinking is number one priority, industry and agriculture next. I'd hate to be in say....the concrete business down there. Still they have the immensely profitable energy industry to balance their budget and keep taxes low. If they keep it up, good for them. But let's not forget that industry is evolving and the way it is sourced and distributed will not be dominated by only a few states.

[brian_b]

Every time I drive home from Indiana I pass a billboard on the toll road that claims Northwestern to be Chicago's Big Ten team. I laugh every single time. It's not Chicago's team. It's the North Shore's team. I've driven and taken the Purple line up there and I assure you that the only people from Chicago that go to Northwestern games are alumni of the opposing team.

I've lived in the West Loop for 8 years and have never gone to a UIC game. Why? Well, for starters I have no idea when and who they are playing. They make no effort to attract anyone to their games - not even from the nearby neighborhoods.

Now, for a moment, forget about DePaul students and how far they will travel to see a game. They don't matter - if they attend the games in the same percentages as the students at top-25 programs it's not enough. You need alumni and people that have never had a formal connection to the school.

In my opinion, a large arena at the Finkl site is only going to increase the region's connection with the team by a small amount compared to Rosemont. Very few people from the south or west sides will bother getting up there. You can get more people from Bucktown and Lincoln Park and that's about it.

A small arena at Finkl should be a non-starter. Why bother? You'll gain a few hundred extra students at a cost of tens of millions of dollars.

A small arena on campus will engage the student body more, but you can forget about being Chicago's team if you do that.

Really, the only good option on the table is a large arena at McCormick Place. It's convenient to the entire metro area and McPier will probably help pay for it. It's no worse for the student body than Rosemont (but probably better) and way way better for alumni schmoozers that would love to buy luxury boxes.

Now of course, if they want the McCormick Place property they have to buy it at auction. Making it look like they are considering other sites will certainly help lower that auction price...

[joeg1985]

Originally Posted by paytonc

There was always going to be trouble integrating a LGBT community center serving the entire city into one of the richest, whitest corners of town -- and merely because the evening entertainment of one highly visible (rich, white, male) subset of LGBT people happens to focus on one street.

But basically, it illustrates why it's dangerous for outsiders to assume that "the LGBT community" does not really exist as a single entity, despite the claim of marketers like these hotel developers.

What? I don't get what you are saying here? Are you suggesting that the LGBT community exists as a single entity?

A lot of the crime that is going on in the Lakeview neighborhood or around the Belmont stop is kids robbing people of their iphones or getting into fights and what not. That sort of thing will take place in any neighborhood with a vibrant and diverse nightlife.

Also, Lakeview is hardly one of the richest and whitest corners of the city. Look at the Gold Coast, Streeterville, Old Town and Lincoln Park. A lot of Lakeview is full of renters.

[harryc]

Chicago River - up high - running very fast - and going the wrong way. Add all the water in this barge and it becomes an interesting day for the iron workers.

[jcchii]

^yeah they finally opened the locks and it all started dumping to lake. You could see clothes, cans, oil, broken wood, you name it floating out

[harryc]

Originally Posted by jcchii

^yeah they finally opened the locks and it all started dumping to lake. You could see clothes, cans, oil, broken wood, you name it floating out

They apparently closed, and then reopened that gates, the water dropped bout 3" in less than 3min. Stopped the water taxi and closed the riverwalk.

It was raging down to the lake early this morning, swells in the stretch tween Clark and LaSalle that looked like rapids.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by harryc

swells in the stretch tween Clark and LaSalle that looked like rapids.

That would have been extremely interesting to see in the middle of downtown. I wonder if there are videos out there. Not only is it a once-in-many-years thing, but it also has to occur during daylight hours and when one is around there to see it.

[ardecila]

This is the youtube era, man. You want videos? Pick your vantage point. 47 videos uploaded in the last 24 hours.

http://www.youtube.com/results?filte...%22&lclk=today

The river saw a similar flood in the spring of 1849 that absolutely devastated the harbor, sweeping away over 100 ships and several bridges. Sadly there is no video of this catastrophic (and dramatic) event, but we do have an early photoengraving.


These ships are all dashed together against the docks, while a few have run aground on rocks in the background.

[denizen467]

^ Dammit, I am already thinking ahead to the read-my-thoughts youtube era, where I can get to the really good videos without even having to wade through dozens of search hit clips. I think they may be working on this already, under the name Google Lazy.
(About your 1849 tale, if our telescopes can see stellar events from millions of years ago, can't there also be a way to simply see ourselves from hundreds of years ago? The light from earth could be embedded in a comet somewhere...)

[Mr Downtown]

The 1849 event was even more disastrous in that the spring storm came when the ice on the river was just starting to break up. So huge sheets of ice were swept before the water, and those soon were sweeping boats ahead of them, breaking away the bridges in turn. So what finally ended up at the mouth of the river was a tangle of wrecked boats and the ruins of every bridge in the city.