The Climate Change Discussion Thread

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by milomilo

This must be fake news, as some in this thread have claimed generating significant amounts of electricity with renewables is impossible. .

Seriously though, getting the final 5% and consistently throughout the year will be a challenge. But it is still better than nothing at all, and it is doable.

To be fair, California is a summer peak state. So hitting 94.5% in late April is much easier than late July.

But yeah, people keep arguing that substantial reliance on renewables isn't possible. And generators keep proving them wrong.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

California hit a record 94.5% renewable power last week. Can't wait to see the first 100%:

For 4 seconds. And if you ignore the mornings and evenings. All we're seeing is California's duck curve in action. Given California's obsession with solar, getting to 100% at noon is a given, but it does little to helps it during the late afternoon and evening.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

But yeah, people keep arguing that substantial reliance on renewables isn't possible. And generators keep proving them wrong.

What they argue is that it's brutally expensive, unless that renewable is hydro, and it makes the grid extremely fragile. And they keep on being proven right.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by accord1999

What they argue is that it's brutally expensive, unless that renewable is hydro, and it makes the grid extremely fragile. And they keep on being proven right.

Nah. That's just the new goalpost. And in a few years when this one is proven wrong, folks like you will move on to some other taking point.

Just like how the denialism on EVs is slowly getting quieter as the tech matures and more companies commit.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Nah. That's just the new goalpost. And in a few years when this one is proven wrong, folks like you will move on to some other taking point.

In a few years, the goal post will be "who needs electricity" as these fragile grids collapse.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by accord1999

In a few years, the goal post will be "who needs electricity" as these fragile grids collapse.

Ah. The Texas talking point you're shilling all over Reddit. I see the greatest hits are back!

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by accord1999

In a few years, the goal post will be "who needs electricity" as these fragile grids collapse.

Interesting, I don't see Alberta oil anywhere on that graph you posted, while the green line is way above the others.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Interesting, I don't see Alberta oil anywhere on that graph you posted, while the green line is way above the others.

Oil's too valuable to be burned for electricity except in rare scenarios. I do see a lot of natural gas cycling up and down to maintain the grid as renewables rises and falls, such as on August 14, one of the days when rotating brown outs were needed.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Ah. The Texas talking point you're shilling all over Reddit. I see the greatest hits are back!

The shills are the ones who tried to absolve wind of fault, despite it being weaker than normal (as expected in extremely cold weather).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by accord1999

The shills are the ones who tried to absolve wind of fault, despite it being weaker than normal (as expected in extremely cold weather).

These comments are going to age about as well as your prognostications on EVs.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by accord1999

The shills are the ones who tried to absolve wind of fault, despite it being weaker than normal (as expected in extremely cold weather).

Is this about Texas? The entire grid was not equipped to handle cold temperatures. A good lesson for climate change impacts of the future.

Keep your head in the sand if you must.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Is this about Texas? The entire grid was not equipped to handle cold temperatures.

Even if it was equipped, Texas nuclear+natural gas+coal capacity hadn't increased in a decade even with large demand growth and there simply wasn't enough to meet 75 GW demand in February that wasn't forecasted to be cold. The nature of the Texas collapse was more likely caused by demand exceeding supply so much that generators had to disconnect to avoid damage.

Keep your head in the sand if you must.

That describes the electricity grid operators of California and Western Europe.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Is this about Texas? The entire grid was not equipped to handle cold temperatures. A good lesson for climate change impacts of the future.

Keep your head in the sand if you must.

He's all over Reddit with "But dem renewables don't work in the cold!"

Ignoring renewables in his own home province which have no issues with the cold.

I'm not one to say 100% is easy or economical. But 70-80% in most jurisdictions? Absolutely. And achieving that the world over, with vehicle electrification would go a long way to cutting emissions.

But hey, at least he's come around on oil is not for power generation and has evolved to pimping natural gas. A decade late. But it's progress....

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Even if it was equipped, Texas nuclear+natural gas+coal capacity hadn't increased in a decade even with large demand growth and there simply wasn't enough to meet 75 GW demand in February that wasn't forecasted to be cold. The nature of the Texas collapse was more likely caused by demand exceeding supply so much that generators had to disconnect to avoid damage.

What? There's plenty of information out there on exactly what happened in Texas. No need to expose your complete ignorance.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

He's all over Reddit with "But dem renewables don't work in the cold!"

Wind and solar certainly don't.

Ignoring renewables in his own home province which have no issues with the cold.

Just because wind turbines don't freeze doesn't mean they the wind itself doesn't die when it's coldest in Alberta, or that solar panels don't do much in the weak light and short days of winter.

But hey, at least he's come around on oil is not for power generation and has evolved to pimping natural gas. A decade late. But it's progress....

When have I ever said oil for electricity? The only people who think oil is used for electricity are usually renewable supporters.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What? There's plenty of information out there on exactly what happened in Texas.

Yes, the information is pretty clear. Wind normally quite strong in February, had already weakened a week earlier as colder temperatures arrived and weakened even more with the extremely cold weather. There simply wasn't enough remaining Texas generation to make it through 75 GW demand, when normal winter demand peaks are around 55 GW.

[Truenorth00]

Relax. The CEOs who run multi-billion dollar utilities aren't in this forum and don't give a fuck what you or I think.

Renewables are getting cheaper every year. And so is grid level storage. Utilities will deploy them because people want cheap power. It's just that simple. If nuclear or natural gas can compete, they'll be around. If not, well none of us wanna pay more to keep them around.

And if the utilities do play favourites? Well, the break-even on rooftop solar + storage is getting shorter too. And note just for residential customers.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Relax. The CEOs who run multi-billion dollar utilities aren't in this forum and don't give a fuck what you or I think.

And that's why they're so eagerly rubbing their hands together at the thought of 30 and 40c/kWh electricity prices with the blessing of the regulator.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by accord1999

And that's why they're so eagerly rubbing their hands together at the thought of 30 and 40c/kWh electricity prices with the blessing of the regulator.

They can do that and watch rooftop solar take off. Somehow, I think they've learned from watching jurisdictions all over the sunbelt

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

They can do that and watch rooftop solar take off. Somehow, I think they've learned from watching jurisdictions all over the sunbelt

But even there, that currently works because of net-metering and having the utility act as a large battery. Going off-grid is a much greater challenge. And even more so in northern US, Western Europe and Canada where the difference in solar production between summer months and winter months is many-fold.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by accord1999

But even there, that currently works because of net-metering and having the utility act as a large battery. Going off-grid is a much greater challenge. And even more so in northern US, Western Europe and Canada where the difference in solar production between summer months and winter months is many-fold.

Yeah, works out well that California will be producing plenty of excess renewable power over the winter doesn't it?