Winnipeg | Osborne Village & Corydon area

[Curmudgeon]

Advocating that a balance is essential between property rights and responsibilities is conservative philosophy. Socialists either do not believe in the ownership of private property or that the community's interests are paramount to that of the property owner.

It's just bad development, simply put. There can be no justification.

[borkborkbork]

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

[esquire]

Save the character of our historic neighbourhoods!

[Curmudgeon]

Built in 1905. Likely that the porch was removed and the windows are awful, very unsympathetic to the house. Still preferable to the generic eyesore that is planned. I thought "diversity was strength"? So why do all new buildings look nearly identically bland? Nothing better for property values than to live in close proximity to apartments on a block that is all single family houses with beautiful big yards. Some of the neighbouring properties are assessed in the $400-500,000 range. I suspect this isn't the last we'll hear of this.

[kalabaw]

I like that rendering and I would live there. But I am not the type of person that would wear sweat pants to a wedding.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

For what it's worth, I think it's pretty good and appropriate for the area.

Well then clearly you are the type to wear sweat pants at formal family gatherings.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Well then clearly you are the type to wear sweat pants at formal family gatherings.

Are you trying to tell me that these magnificent pants are inappropriate for weddings and funerals?

[EdwardTH]

Ironically, the people who would wear sweat pants to a wedding are actually probably the ones living in the old homes being replaced here - run-down old houses with overgrown lawns and little upkeep. You may or may not like the aesthetic of these new builds, but I'm pretty sure they're actually pushing out the sweat pants people. Very different from the people who buy grand old homes and properly maintain them of course.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Built in 1905. Likely that the porch was removed and the windows are awful, very unsympathetic to the house. Still preferable to the generic eyesore that is planned. I thought "diversity was strength"? So why do all new buildings look nearly identically bland? Nothing better for property values than to live in close proximity to apartments on a block that is all single family houses with beautiful big yards. Some of the neighbouring properties are assessed in the $400-500,000 range. I suspect this isn't the last we'll hear of this.

I am not sure, but it seems from this and other posts that you don't simply have a problem with lax design standards for infill, but *any* infill on streets like Gertrude Ave. and others around Fort Rouge. If that's the case, then I wonder: in what year should the neighbourhood's built form stopped changing? 1910 -- before the majority of pre-war apartments were built? 1945 -- before the 1950s-era apartments were built? 1965 -- before the Wellington and River highrises came along? Circa 2010 -- before a new round of infill projects started happening?

I think when you look at the neighbourhood overall (just thinking about everything between Osborne and Cockburn or so here), there is no point where one could say the neighbourhood was 'complete'; that aside from a few periods of no development (WWII, 1990s), the neighbourhood never stopped changing to some degree. And as any good conservative would agree, some change is not just inevitable but necessary, and that "in all our changes we are never either wholly old or wholly new," as Burke said.

And now we have Drake memes, Zubaz pants, and Edmund Burke quotes all on the same page. Way to go, all.

[esquire]

People need to realize that these older homes can't be expected to last forever. In some Canadian cities, the inner city areas feel new thanks to lots of infill development replacing older homes. I don't know why you should be expected to move to the edges of suburbia if you want a nice, new home built to modern standards.

A lot of Winnipeg's inner city homes, even in nicer areas, simply haven't been all that well maintained either... there's a reason why people want to demolish and rebuild. And doing that helps to revitalize older neighbourhoods.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by esquire

People need to realize that these older homes can't be expected to last forever. In some Canadian cities, the inner city areas feel new thanks to lots of infill development replacing older homes. I don't know why you should be expected to move to the edges of suburbia if you want a nice, new home built to modern standards.

A lot of Winnipeg's inner city homes, even in nicer areas, simply haven't been all that well maintained either... there's a reason why people want to demolish and rebuild. And doing that helps to revitalize older neighbourhoods.

Absolutely. Existing character and form should matter, but there is no rule in place that you need to put up with living in an old building if you wish to live close to the centre of the city within walking distance of a lot of nice things. These are living neighbourhoods, not historical movie sets.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

Ironically, the people who would wear sweat pants to a wedding are actually probably the ones living in the old homes being replaced here - run-down old houses with overgrown lawns and little upkeep. You may or may not like the aesthetic of these new builds, but I'm pretty sure they're actually pushing out the sweat pants people. Very different from the people who buy grand old homes and properly maintain them of course.

Why don't those sweat-pants people just go back to Sweatsilvania where they belong??

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by wardlow

I am not sure, but it seems from this and other posts that you don't simply have a problem with lax design standards for infill, but *any* infill on streets like Gertrude Ave. and others around Fort Rouge. If that's the case, then I wonder: in what year should the neighbourhood's built form stopped changing? 1910 -- before the majority of pre-war apartments were built? 1945 -- before the 1950s-era apartments were built? 1965 -- before the Wellington and River highrises came along? Circa 2010 -- before a new round of infill projects started happening?

I think when you look at the neighbourhood overall (just thinking about everything between Osborne and Cockburn or so here), there is no point where one could say the neighbourhood was 'complete'; that aside from a few periods of no development (WWII, 1990s), the neighbourhood never stopped changing to some degree. And as any good conservative would agree, some change is not just inevitable but necessary, and that "in all our changes we are never either wholly old or wholly new," as Burke said.

And now we have Drake memes, Zubaz pants, and Edmund Burke quotes all on the same page. Way to go, all.

I have no "problem" with sympathetic infill and if the design was such I would have no complaint. I would prefer that area remain as intact as possible, especially on a block that is remarkably authentic, obviously recognizing that over time there will be changes. Organic change is inevitable and often desirable.

Really what has to be asked is if that development would be approved in places such as Georgetown, D.C., The Haight or The Vieux Carre. I'll answer that myself, absolutely not. As for Edwardian housing nearing the end of its lifespan, that is simply not true. Visit Chicago, New York, Glasgow or Melbourne where in each city a huge portion of the housing stock is Victorian and Edwardian and is located in neighbourhoods that are in many cases the most desirable in the city.

As for those sweat pants I got a good laugh out of that. Commonly worn in the late 80s with a brightly coloured windbreaker.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by pspeid

Why don't those sweat-pants people just go back to Sweatsilvania where they belong??

[buzzg]

In other Village contruction news...

Phase 2 of Osborne place is completely dug out and foundation prep is starting. O Station Cafe in phase 1 is now open. Interior construction has started up again in phase 1, likely getting ready to lease now that they know P2 is happening for sure, and tenants will have parking soon.

Also, Money Mart is closed and currently being gutted. Probably a sign that the AT path will actually (finally) be connected this year. Now for the city to widen curb cuts for shared paths and stop putting new traffic signal/light poles right in the path of where bikes travel.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I have no "problem" with sympathetic infill and if the design was such I would have no complaint. I would prefer that area remain as intact as possible, especially on a block that is remarkably authentic, obviously recognizing that over time there will be changes. Organic change is inevitable and often desirable.

Really what has to be asked is if that development would be approved in places such as Georgetown, D.C., The Haight or The Vieux Carre. I'll answer that myself, absolutely not. As for Edwardian housing nearing the end of its lifespan, that is simply not true. Visit Chicago, New York, Glasgow or Melbourne where in each city a huge portion of the housing stock is Victorian and Edwardian and is located in neighbourhoods that are in many cases the most desirable in the city.

As for those sweat pants I got a good laugh out of that. Commonly worn in the late 80s with a brightly coloured windbreaker.

Melbourne's stock of older classic homes are being torn down at an astronomical rate. This is due to Chinese investors purchasing these properties and demolishing them to building massive homes for their entire family to live in. Older neighbourhoods are being transformed very quickly, and local, long time residents are up in arms over the whole thing.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

In other Village contruction news...

Phase 2 of Osborne place is completely dug out and foundation prep is starting. O Station Cafe in phase 1 is now open. Interior construction has started up again in phase 1, likely getting ready to lease now that they know P2 is happening for sure, and tenants will have parking soon.

Also, Money Mart is closed and currently being gutted. Probably a sign that the AT path will actually (finally) be connected this year. Now for the city to widen curb cuts for shared paths and stop putting new traffic signal/light poles right in the path of where bikes travel.

Technically not Osborne Village, but 380 Osborne just a stone's throw from Osborne Place is also dug out. It's deeper than I was expecting, should be a decent amount of parking down there.

It's nice to see the growing density around Osborne Station but if I can put my Debbie Downer hat on for a moment, it really makes the terrible Co-op/McDonald's/BellMTS development on Osborne stand out even more like the sore thumb that it is. An even moderately urban minded design would have made for a great pedestrian environment instead of the ugly Regent Avenue-like void that exists around there now.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by esquire

Technically not Osborne Village, but 380 Osborne just a stone's throw from Osborne Place is also dug out. It's deeper than I was expecting, should be a decent amount of parking down there.

It's nice to see the growing density around Osborne Station but if I can put my Debbie Downer hat on for a moment, it really makes the terrible Co-op/McDonald's/BellMTS development on Osborne stand out even more like the sore thumb that it is. An even moderately urban minded design would have made for a great pedestrian environment instead of the ugly Regent Avenue-like void that exists around there now.

a little savage today are we?

The whole transit garage thing really kills the vibe there too. It's really too bad that it couldn't have been built a little further off the road and left space for some commercial units fronting Osborne. Maybe the BellMTS stuff could've gone in there fronting Osborne instead of being set back and the transit garage could have taken the land it lost where MTS stands. oh well. There are going to be gas stations but the trick is to not make them too suburban that close to downtown haha

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I have no "problem" with sympathetic infill and if the design was such I would have no complaint. I would prefer that area remain as intact as possible, especially on a block that is remarkably authentic, obviously recognizing that over time there will be changes. Organic change is inevitable and often desirable.

Really what has to be asked is if that development would be approved in places such as Georgetown, D.C., The Haight or The Vieux Carre. I'll answer that myself, absolutely not. As for Edwardian housing nearing the end of its lifespan, that is simply not true. Visit Chicago, New York, Glasgow or Melbourne where in each city a huge portion of the housing stock is Victorian and Edwardian and is located in neighbourhoods that are in many cases the most desirable in the city.

As for those sweat pants I got a good laugh out of that. Commonly worn in the late 80s with a brightly coloured windbreaker.

But why does that have to be asked? Gertrude Ave is not in Georgetown or Vieux Carre. Why would we apply design standards of a totally different place? I mean the average property value in Georgetown is around $1 Million - it's pretty unrealistic to expect property owners and developers in Osborne village to hold that standard is it not? Who would live in all those $1M single-family mansions on Wardlaw and Gertrude if they were maintained the way you're calling for? If there were piles of millionaires lining up to live in the village I'm sure the developments there would look different, but thats not what the neighbourhood is. We could spend all day wishing Osborne was les Champs-Élysées but it's not. At the end of the day you have to appreciate what the neighbourhood really is instead of what it is in your fantasies. Also, Winnipeg has literally thousands of century-old houses, no reason to freak out over one, poorly maintained house being replaced.