The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Chadillaccc]

Ottawa LRT. Bam!



Ottawa_LRT_Expansion by Chadillaccc, on Flickr
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ottawa_LRT_Expansion.png

[Chadillaccc]

and yes I don't see why they wouldn't tunnel under the canal, many more treacherous waters have been tunneled under

[Aylmer]

But they do tunnel under the canal - between DT-East and Rideau. However, that's a bit of a dated map - the tunnel now ends before Campus station.

[eemy]

The tunnel portal will actually be north of Campus station now, so only the three downtown stations will be underground. Major transfer stations are Tunney's Pasture (from West Transitway), Bayview (from O-Train), Hurdman (from SE Transitway), and Blair (from East).

This is actually pretty important since the running of buses through the downtown has pretty much reached its limit. They studied moving routes onto different downtown streets, but the geography of downtown Ottawa (escarpment on the west side, canal on the east) means that you end up with choke points and effectively no greater capacity than before. There is no clear indication of the starting headways, but based on the number of trainsets ordered, it will likely be very frequent service from the get-go, probably in the order of every 3 minutes or so, so transfers should be relatively painless.

Expansion of O-Train service should open before the new LRT, extending it further south and doubling the frequency to every 8 minutes. Expansion west, probably terminating at Baseline Stn, is currently being studied, the main point of contention being whether the line will follow the Ottawa River Parkway further from the centre of attention in Westboro, or whether it will follow Richmond Rd right through the middle (two of several options). The bungling NCC doesn't want to taint the view of all the drivers on the ORP with LRT vehicles, so that might force the line on a more urban ROW - turn lemons into lemonade, right?!

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I'm a little lost on the Ottawa LRT.

Are they basically just getting rid of the TransitWay from Blair to Tunney's Pasture with a downtown tunnel? What happens to the Transitway that goes thru OttawaU but doesn't go to Blair but to the airport...........what route will it now take. Is the TransitWay now ending at TP and people coming from further west will have to transfer onto the LRT?

Also with this tunnel, are they actually going to tunnel under the Rideau Canal?

Tunnelling under the Rideau Canal will be a piece of cake relative to natural body of water. Downtown Ottawa sits on solid limestone, and the canal was carved out of it. The canal is also drained half of the year.



They'll be using one of these bad boys instead of a tunnel boring machine:


We'll probably have to transfer at Hurdman to get to the airport (or take the O-Train and transfer at Greenboro or the planned expansion to Leitrim). If you've ever taken the bus to the airport, the demand is really low. Usually the bus gets there or leaves with less than 5 people. It would probably be more cost effective to run a short but frequent shuttle to the O-Train line, which will be upgraded to 8-minute frequencies soon with the six new train sets coming next year.

[Chadillaccc]

That's too bad they shortened the tunnel, still cool they are doing underground through DT. Do not make the grand mistake Calgary did. Once the West line is at capacity, our 7th avenue corridor (downtown transit street) will be past capacity to handle the amount of trains on that ROW... and we have no contingency except to maybe start building 1 of the lines underground through DT in the early 2020s. Blah!

[eemy]

It is still fully grade separated. I believe the location of the tunnel portal was primarily a factor of the depth of the tunnel and what sort of grade they required to reach the surface.

[Metro-One]

So the Ottawa LRT will be the most "metro" like LRT in Canada right? From what I can see it has no street grade crossings / interactions? So essentially it will be a metro system?

[Kibb]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

So the Ottawa LRT will be the most "metro" like LRT in Canada right? From what I can see it has no street grade crossings / interactions? So essentially it will be a metro system?

I guess so, the vehicle is a Citadis which are low floor trams which sounds like traditional LRT... but the Line is completely grade separated, so no street crossings and will be running at speeds,Alstom says 100km/h, between stations Citadisii (Citadises?) on streets around the world don't.

LRT and Metro had a baby, and it's this thingamajig. Read the Ottawa forum on it, we're still trying to classify it.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Kibb

I guess so, the vehicle is a Citadis which are low floor trams which sounds like traditional LRT... but the Line is completely grade separated, so no street crossings and will be running at speeds between stations Citadisii (Citadises?) on streets around the world don't.

LRT and Metro had a baby, and it's this thingamajig. Read the Ottawa forum on it, we're still trying to classify it.

It's a Melrto!

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Kibb

I guess so, the vehicle is a Citadis which are low floor trams which sounds like traditional LRT... but the Line is completely grade separated, so no street crossings and will be running at speeds,Alstom says 100km/h, between stations Citadisii (Citadises?) on streets around the world don't.

LRT and Metro had a baby, and it's this thingamajig. Read the Ottawa forum on it, we're still trying to classify it.

If it is fully grade separated, it is therefore technically a metro baby!

Sweet, Canada's 4th metro system!

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by vanman

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

This is really cool. When I was in Ottawa the last time, I noticed the downtown was clogged with buses during rush hour; it was noisy and made it difficult to get around. Overall it seemed like a really inefficient way of moving people. This LRT tunnel should take care of that congestion issue. I also like how it provides a true rapid transit link to the city's railway station, but I can't help but notice that the line doesn't really extend that far to the west. Why is that? Insufficient density? What are they planning to do with the stub of the transitway left over between Tunney's Pasture and the Parkway?

Originally Posted by Metro-One

If it is fully grade separated, it is therefore technically a metro baby!

Sweet, Canada's 4th metro system!

It's nice to see at least one city in Canada has their priorities straight.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Kibb

I guess so, the vehicle is a Citadis which are low floor trams which sounds like traditional LRT... but the Line is completely grade separated, so no street crossings and will be running at speeds,Alstom says 100km/h, between stations Citadisii (Citadises?) on streets around the world don't.

LRT and Metro had a baby, and it's this thingamajig. Read the Ottawa forum on it, we're still trying to classify it.

I wonder why they're using low floor trams instead of say, Canada line type stock. Not that it really matters as far as what category it is classified in as there are a few full metros with LRT stock, and non-grade separated systems with typically metro stock.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I wonder why they're using low floor trams instead of say, Canada line type stock. Not that it really matters as far as what category it is classified in as there are a few full metros with LRT stock, and non-grade separated systems with typically metro stock.

I agree, even Calgary/Edmontons trains are more metro(pre-metro) like than Ottawa's. I believe Ottawa's LRT trains are the flexity freedom?

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Wharn

I can't help but notice that the line doesn't really extend that far to the west. Why is that? Insufficient density? What are they planning to do with the stub of the transitway left over between Tunney's Pasture and the Parkway?

It's the next phase, which will extend LRT to Baseline station (Algonquin College). Part of he ROW is being figured out right now, whether it's going to run along the river parkway or along the Richmond Road/Byron Ave corridor. If it's the latter, it may call for another tunnelled section. This section was a gap in the BRT anyway, it just temporarily used the parkway.

The rest of the Transitway trench will remain BRT for now, with a bus terminal at Tunney's Pasture.

To go farther west, there is yet another missing link towards Pinecrest Ave beside the Queensway, but after that relatively straightforward to the edge of the Greenbelt. These sections are to be built as BRT to start as part of the current Transit Plan, and then possibly converted to LRT at an undetermined future date

[MapleLeafs]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I agree, even Calgary/Edmontons trains are more metro(pre-metro) like than Ottawa's. I believe Ottawa's LRT trains are the flexity freedom?

Nope, believe it or not, Bombardier lost. The contract went to a French company:

CTV News has learned Bombardier will not build trains for Ottawa's new light rail system.

Alstom of France will provide the new Ottawa system with two of its "Citadis" models which will offer a carrying capacity of 600 passengers to start.

The company was selected by the consortium Rideau Transit Group expected to be announced as the winning bidder for the project.

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/bombardier-lose...ight-rail-trains-1.1064761#ixzz2EIgkHuDH

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I wonder why they're using low floor trams instead of say, Canada line type stock. Not that it really matters as far as what category it is classified in as there are a few full metros with LRT stock, and non-grade separated systems with typically metro stock.

I suspect (hope) that it's an indication that they're thinking creating large network, which is much more financially possible with surface LRT than grade-separated light metro. The section that they're currently building is grade-separated, but that's only because most of its route is already built (minus rails) that way and the areas that aren't need to be for capacity reasons (downtown).

However, most places in Ottawa don't yet have densities that can justify grade-separation, but where surface LRT would be attractive (Carling, St-Laurent, Merrivale, Gatineau *gasp!*).

Gatineau, actually, has the potential to be an interesting point: There are no corridors in Gatineau that would justify grade-separation, but a tram system would be much more desirable for the city. I know it would be a frosty night in hell, but I think this is encouraging for a possible integration between the two cities.

But I digress

I'm personally happy with their decision to go with low-floor trams for this modular nature (it can be a light metro where light metro capacities are required and it can be a tram where tram capacities are justified).

Plus, they look nice

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by MapleLeafs

Nope, believe it or not, Bombardier lost. The contract went to a French company

Alstom also won the replacement for the O-Train stock, which are currently Bombardier Talents. The new ones will be Alstom Coradia LINTs

It's a moot point really, they're both not built in Canada.

[Metro-One]

With a population over 1 million (and growing) grade separation is perfect for this Ottawa "trunk" line.

Other lines could be built as surface lines, but it would make sense to keep any extensions of this proposed line grade separated as well.

[eemy]

From what I can tell, the maximum capacity for the line won't actually be that much less than the Canada Line. The minimum headway should be close to identical (1:45, which translates to appr. one train every 2 minutes), and the train capacity is only slightly greater for the Canada Line (334 per two car train vs. 300). So, they aren't really sacrificing much in having low-floor vehicles and are probably saving a fair bit of money in rebuilding the existing stations.