Phoenix Development News (3)

[MMDelon]

Please correct me if I am wrong but do they need to be next to a giant source of water to make their semiconductors? Is that why the plant is somewhat close to Lake Pleasant? I am ignorant to all this and just want to make sure.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by MMDelon

Please correct me if I am wrong but do they need to be next to a giant source of water to make their semiconductors? Is that why the plant is somewhat close to Lake Pleasant? I am ignorant to all this and just want to make sure.

I don't think so - the Intel fab out in Chandler is not near a giant reservoir.

This came down to having enough space to setup and access to main power lines. That location has plenty of both. Especially power - as its fed directly off the NW/Happy Valley (right south of Happy Valley and L303 in Peoria) Switching Yards. Those come directly from Palo Verde and the nearby gas powered station near Tonopah. (The Phoenix area has 4 of these major switching yards - one in each quadrant of the valley). Gives them a lot of options in terms of getting power to the facility. Gives them plenty of space to help establish a supply chain 'village' around the facility as well - as at least two of their suppliers are committed to joining them in the same area. (this is how similar places setup in China so that everything they need is in the same city). If this plays out as expected, this will be a massive long term win for the valley as a whole.

[combusean]

City of Phoenix water pretty much guarantees they have everything they need.

Ahwatukee wouldn't even be a thing if Phoenix didn't have the capabilities to tunnel under South Mountain back in the day--I'm sure the far annexed northwest valley isn't a problem for infrastructure delivery.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

City of Phoenix water pretty much guarantees they have everything they need.

Ahwatukee wouldn't even be a thing if Phoenix didn't have the capabilities to tunnel under South Mountain back in the day--I'm sure the far annexed northwest valley isn't a problem for infrastructure delivery.

There's a massive project underway in my neighborhood to bring water from central Phoenix to the city's north side. The portion of the city south of the Phoenix Mountain Preserve obtains its water primarily from the Salt and Verde rivers, which are viewed as a stable source with groundwater available as a backup. North Phoenix, on the other hand, obtains most of its water from the Colorado River via the Central Arizona Project canal, a source that may be in jeopardy.

By laying massive pipes through the Phoenix Mountain Preserve, the city wants to connect its stable water supply to the north side. Right now, there isn't sufficient infrastructure for that purpose, but this project is designed to addressed that shortcoming. The city has stated that the project is intended to assure adequate water supply for existing neighborhoods rather than foster new construction. Nevertheless, in this case, maybe economic development is a secondary outcome.

https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservices/droughtpipeline

[biggus diggus]

I've always liked that neighborhood, exit2left. When I heard about the project closing off some of the trails I use for access to the preserve it was a little annoying (very annoying) but I suppose it's for the best to tear up the mountain.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

There's a massive project underway in my neighborhood to bring water from central Phoenix to the city's north side. The portion of the city south of the Phoenix Mountain Preserve obtains its water primarily from the Salt and Verde rivers, which are viewed as a stable source with groundwater available as a backup. North Phoenix, on the other hand, obtains most of its water from the Colorado River via the Central Arizona Project canal, a source that may be in jeopardy.

By laying massive pipes through the Phoenix Mountain Preserve, the city wants to connect its stable water supply to the north side. Right now, there isn't sufficient infrastructure for that purpose, but this project is designed to addressed that shortcoming. The city has stated that the project is intended to assure adequate water supply for existing neighborhoods rather than foster new construction. Nevertheless, in this case, maybe economic development is a secondary outcome.

https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservices/droughtpipeline

Far NW PHX has this: the Lake Pleasant Water Treatment plant - processes enough water to supply 400k homes. This plant was built with growth in this very part of the city in mind.

https://www.mccarthy.com/projects/la...reatment-plant

From what I understand after living in far north PHX for many years, the pipelines from the south to north are not to replace this - but to get water to new developments (infill) that's occurring around the Desert Ridge area. The maps of the aforementioned project show this.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by xymox

Far NW PHX has this: the Lake Pleasant Water Treatment plant - processes enough water to supply 400k homes. This plant was built with growth in this very part of the city in mind.

https://www.mccarthy.com/projects/la...reatment-plant

From what I understand after living in far north PHX for many years, the pipelines from the south to north are not to replace this - but to get water to new developments (infill) that's occurring around the Desert Ridge area. The maps of the aforementioned project show this.

Thanks for that detail. It makes sense given the location of the new pipes being placed in my neighborhood. They're heading in a northeast direction through the Dreamy Draw.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I've always liked that neighborhood, exit2left. When I heard about the project closing off some of the trails I use for access to the preserve it was a little annoying (very annoying) but I suppose it's for the best to tear up the mountain.

Fortunately, the project was modified to minimize impact on the preserve. It will use the SR51 alignment. The paved multi-use path through the Dreamy Draw will be temporarily closed, but the natural areas should be largely untouched.

[PHX06]

Looks like they are finally repairing those damaged windows back from June. Also appears that they are removing the Chase sign over the door. Large façade signs at the top of the building remain, although only the east side is lit at night.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Fortunately, the project was modified to minimize impact on the preserve. It will use the SR51 alignment. The paved multi-use path through the Dreamy Draw will be temporarily closed, but the natural areas should be largely untouched.

That's great news. I attended a couple meetings about this and was under the impression they were unable to use the 51 alignment, glad like they figured it out.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by PHX06

Looks like they are finally repairing those damaged windows back from June. Also appears that they are removing the Chase sign over the door. Large façade signs at the top of the building remain, although only the east side is lit at night.

Yup. I mentioned the windows a couple of post back. They (Chase) has completely vacated the tower, correct? If so, I would imagine all Chase signage would be coming down. I wonder with the windows finally getting replaced if this is a sign that they may be moving forward with some renovations or have a potential tenant lined up?

[biggus diggus]

The previous owners bought that building on the courthouse steps knowing that Chase was moving out, hell they even built Chase's new office. They flipped the building to Wentworth about a month later and they bought it with intention of running everyone out and remodeling the building to re-lease and sell. Covid changed the office market. They have a 15K foot floorplate and 8' ceilings. The building is an old dog and the market for a dog office space right now is non-existent. The expectation is for this one to be vacant long term and/or become housing.

[fawd]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

The expectation is for this one to be vacant long term and/or become housing.

Housing???

[combusean]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

The previous owners bought that building on the courthouse steps knowing that Chase was moving out, hell they even built Chase's new office. They flipped the building to Wentworth about a month later and they bought it with intention of running everyone out and remodeling the building to re-lease and sell. Covid changed the office market. They have a 15K foot floorplate and 8' ceilings. The building is an old dog and the market for a dog office space right now is non-existent. The expectation is for this one to be vacant long term and/or become housing.

Wentworth bought it and flipped to its current billionaire owner, Vincent Viola.

I have a feeling it's going to be vacant until Viola sells, which may as well be never. People like him are the last types you'd want owning a building like this--I smell this acquisition like whatever eccentric trophy (tallest building in Pheonix!!!1!) the super rich get to diversify their wealth for a long term hold, maybe profiting just a bit from the parking so no motivation to sell. Note that it is not up for lease and the owner has no experience developing property and no known ties to Arizona.

It would take a serious development team to buy it back, realize Viola a profit, and all they'd get would be two hulking concrete blocks needing a massive renovation.

I may be way out of my league here but fortunately the numbers are lining up:

The purchase price for the tower ($150 or so a square foot) plus conversion costs, mayyyybe another $150 square foot (https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/rea...es-4769682.php) are decently less than, eg Adeline's construction cost of $360/square foot.

The bonus here is in the land of the currently connected garage block, that seems like an easy tear down. It's not ADA compliant so it doesn't properly serve the next building (where's plinko when you need him?), but could be worth $17 - 20 million for the land it's on at pre-COVID rates and from what I remember from structured parking costs make redeveloping it a no-brainer.

The problem is again is that it would take a well-capitalized developer to turn the blocks around and maximize value. I think they'd have to be bigger than anyone else in Phoenix, and that would be a problem attracting that kind of capital.

[biggus diggus]

Yeah, I got it backwards. I think my commerical contact might have started his new years partying a bit early. The whole wentworth timeline was confusing when he told me.

[CrestedSaguaro]

I walked by the site of the proposed Thunderbird Legacy Tower yesterday and decided to check into any updates:

Currently, there are 2 staff reports available...1 for removing the historic designation of the warehouse and 1 for the height increase. Both reports show a staff recommendation of denial. However, both have already went before the Central City Village Planning Committee on the 14th and then the Historic Preservation Commission on the 21st. The CCVPC approved both amendments while the the HPC appears to have approved the height amendment (surprisingly) but denied historic preservation removal.

Here's where it gets tricky and this may potentially kill the project. Apparently (according to the staff report), the FAA has reversed their decision (previously approving the height increase to 283') and now have issued an obstruction against the proposed height of the tower. I had thought the site had a 250' limit, but that is incorrect. The property has a current height limit of 80'-140', so increasing the height of the lot to 283' is a sizeable jump of 143' to the site's current height limit. If the FAA stands on their decision, I don't see the City of Phoenix going against their recommendation and I highly doubt the project would move forward with a height of 140'.

Also on the staff reports, there are more detailed renderings and site plans to view. The tower looks good and I hope this all works out in the end, but it will be interesting to see how this goes with the FAA now apparently against the height increase. The next scheduled hearings are to go before the Planning Commission on Jan. 7th.

Here's links to the staff reports with renderings:
Height report: https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Docu...a%2D5%2D20%2D7
Historic report: https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Docu...a%2D5%2D20%2D7

[combusean]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

Here's where it gets tricky and this may potentially kill the project. Apparently (according to the staff report), the FAA has reversed their decision (previously approving the height increase to 283') and now have issued an obstruction against the proposed height of the tower. I had thought the site had a 250' limit, but that is incorrect. The property has a current height limit of 80'-140', so increasing the height of the lot to 283' is a sizeable jump of 143' to the site's current height limit. If the FAA stands on their decision, I don't see the City of Phoenix going against their recommendation and I highly doubt the project would move forward with a height of 140'.

Also on the staff reports, there are more detailed renderings and site plans to view. The tower looks good and I hope this all works out in the end, but it will be interesting to see how this goes with the FAA now apparently against the height increase. The next scheduled hearings are to go before the Planning Commission on Jan. 7th.

Here's links to the staff reports with renderings:
Height report: https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Docu...a%2D5%2D20%2D7
Historic report: https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Docu...a%2D5%2D20%2D7

I think you're misreading these two sections of the Staff Report:

The applicant previously received a No Hazard Determination from the FAA for the proposed elevation height of 1,367 feet. However, the FAA did not review for a critical safety surface referred to as the one-engine inoperable (OEI) departure surface. 1,300 feet MSL, as required by City Code, ensures construction will not penetrate the OEI critical safety surface.

Combine that with the previous first subsection:

The site’s ground level (referred to as site elevation relative to mean sea level) is 1,082 feet MSL.

The 80 - 140' height limits were proposed as Phoenix's Urban Form and are as much a formality as anything else zoned in the city. They don't mean anything in reality.

If this goes forward it gets whittled down to 218 feet.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by combusean

I think you're misreading these two sections of the Staff Report:

Combine that with the previous first subsection:

The 80 - 140' height limits were proposed as Phoenix's Urban Form and are as much a formality as anything else zoned in the city. They don't mean anything in reality.

If this goes forward it gets whittled down to 218 feet.

That's why your here....to clarify these things.

The aviation comments are a little confusing and my initial assessment is based off of "The Aviation Department opposes the proposal and requests the withdrawal of the case. The Aviation Department also provided the following findings". Upon reading the remainder of the comments, I assumed they had re-assessed their initial obstruction evaluation.

However, with the Central Village Planning Committee and the Historic Preservation Commission both ok'ing the proposed height amendment, do you think the Planning Commission and City of Phoenix would still attempt to knock it down to 218'ish?

Edit: Also, in all honesty, the proposed Thunderbird Tower is proposed 3 blocks directly West of the Summit which is 254'. Seems to me, the height limit should at least be equal to that?

Another edit: Went and searched the FAA archives and I actually can't find an evaluation submitted for 283' on Thunderbird. Four were submitted at 270' and all had a determination of No Hazard, but none for 283'.

[combusean]

Summit was built prior to the airport height zoning ordinance.

I'm almost certain this won't go to 270 or whatever. That limit is much more rigorous than Urban Form.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Garfield House is now called Skye on 6th. The developer (Hubbard Street Group) is not wasting any time on this project and advertising a Q2 groundbreaking. A couple of permits have already been pulled including plant salvage and some place holders.

Also, Skye on 6th website is already up: https://skyeon6th.com/

Developer's site (with lots of renderings): https://www.hubbardstreetgroup.com/skye-on-6th

This one is going to move fast