Phoenix Development News (3)

[Diamonddave]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

Some movement on McKinley Green and the Edith in the permitting process today and yesterday. Quite a few infrastructure permits submitted for Edith and a couple for McKinley Green. None are showing as issued yet probably due to fees needing to be paid. But good to see something still going on with these.

No other permits found on others yet including Central Station. I find that a little odd since the lot has already been fenced up and construction is imminent. Surely, they would be pulling some permits by now?

I agree on Central Station since it's been approved for awhile.

[PHX06]

Does anyone know if Chase Tower is due for a renovation soon? There are still several shattered windows on the lower floors that are taped up or boarded up from 6 months ago. In addition, most of the vegetation in the raised concrete berm surrounding the building is dead or has been removed. I also noticed that the large spotlights (tucked away in the berm) that are used to illuminate the concrete side of the building are not turned on at night anymore. It's sad to see our tallest building sliding into a state of disrepair.

[Obadno]

I have a feeling Chase Tower is in a bad way at the moment, they were losing their largest tenant (Chase) over the last several years. Now with Covid they have no replacement.

Probably just cutting costs until they can get some solid leasing back.

[combusean]

It was due for a renovation, then the owners flipped it for a quick buck to some east coast investor who has held it since.

This is not the tower I would want to deal with right now. Probably hasn't had a major renovation in almost 40 years, obsolete podium moat giving retail tenants who already have a hard time no visibility, probably way underparked, nothing special about the small floorplates, massive vacancy with most of Chase leaving.

Then you add covid so probably a third less office demand built into an already lagging submarket.

And it's not even being leased right now apparently. I really hope something big is in the works ...

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by combusean

It was due for a renovation, then the owners flipped it for a quick buck to some east coast investor who has held it since.

This is not the tower I would want to deal with right now. Probably hasn't had a major renovation in almost 40 years, obsolete podium moat giving retail tenants who already have a hard time no visibility, probably way underparked, nothing special about the small floorplates, massive vacancy with most of Chase leaving.

Then you add covid so probably a third less office demand built into an already lagging submarket.

And it's not even being leased right now apparently. I really hope something big is in the works ...

I would love to see Chase get the repositioning treatment (à la Willis Tower) with the "moat" rebuilt into 1 level of above grade retail or startup space surrounding the entire tower. Not sure how feasible or expensive that would be with the sunken plaza...probably more than any developer would want to take on right now.

Wasn't there talk of converting portions of the tower to residential when it was sold? Not sure where I read that.

[PHX06]

The Phoenix Business Journal ran an article about apartments being a possibility back in 2018, but I can't picture that. I just hope it gets renovated soon -- it has the potential to be the crown jewel of our downtown. Even just repairing the glass, a modest makeover of several un-leased floors and the lobby, an exciting lighting package and filling the moat with palm trees would be enough. In its current state with many broken windows, it's blighting the immediate vicinity.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

with the "moat" rebuilt into 1 level of above grade retail or startup space surrounding the entire tower. Not sure how feasible or expensive that would be with the sunken plaza...probably more than any developer would want to take on right now.

I don't think it would be a huge undertaking to build a one or two story structure wrapped around the tower and tie it in with the entrance. Frankly I think it would be a good investment to build some retail and or dining space. Construction costs aren't that much but there is an underground loading dock.

[Classical in Phoenix]

Found this regarding the redevelopment of the Arizona Hardware Supply Company Building in the warehouse district.

https://m.facebook.com/PreservePHX/p...452622/?type=3

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by Classical in Phoenix

Found this regarding the redevelopment of the Arizona Hardware Supply Company Building in the warehouse district.

https://m.facebook.com/PreservePHX/p...452622/?type=3

I quit reading after the first few NIMBY comments against building more tall buildings downtown.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I don't think it would be a huge undertaking to build a one or two story structure wrapped around the tower and tie it in with the entrance. Frankly I think it would be a good investment to build some retail and or dining space. Construction costs aren't that much but there is an underground loading dock.

If I were in this for the long haul, I'd run it out for attrition like another dated tower like One Camelback where tenants are either evicted or have their leases ended or not renewed. I'm not sure how this works in commercial property, I know there are a lot more protections for residential tenants in nearly any state but commercial leases run for a lot longer.

After going big instead of going home, I'd crack into the foundation, drill the caissons, and expand the floorplates somehow and reskin the whole thing, if the expansion were somehow possible which I think it could.

The loading dock on Monroe can suck forever but the street presence on Van Buren and Central is an atrocity. Off-street loading can exist as a function of both the zoning code and history but who knows what the sub-basement looks like.

The package deal with Chase includes the parking garage which is an obvious pile of crap with its pre-ADA single-use design so there's nothing to preserve there besides its underground connection which is STILLLLL more remediation with probably complicated ROW work... garshdarnit.

...

But being realistic, I hate to say this but my grim prediction is Chase is demolished within 10 years or so at even a best case scenario.

The tower is already hitting fifty years old, completely outmoded, unupgraded, too-vacant, passed around, left too fallow and neglected like an unwanted foster kid. Its future utility is destroyed by illnesses like COVID and age. It only has recognition as the state's tallest building and isn't loved by really anybody, including its absentee landlord. It's not a destination property like Collier Center or the CityScapes and even those have difficulty leasing out or depend on downtown relos.

Converting it to residential means it probably loses its dated parking garage to another redevelopment and still needs outstanding mechanical and brand new plumbing to make it work which can't be worth the concrete its made of and definitely not the skin. My thought process here is if somebody had or at least thought they had the money to rehab Chase into something else they'd tear it down and do it over again unlike the small midrises like One Camelback and One Lexington.

Chase is an umanned ghost ship floating in the water as far as I can tell. It can't get where it needs to and probably won't. I can't find a future for it that is representative of the money someone would want to spend to make it viable again.

[dtphxguy]

Didn’t it sell a year ago for like 100 million dollars? There has to be some value there that we’re not seeing. The land certainly isn’t worth that, plus the additional cost of demolition.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

I quit reading after the first few NIMBY comments against building more tall buildings downtown.

As added bonuses, there are comments in which every sentence ends with multiple exclamation points, random use of allcaps for no apparent reason, and people still fighting to stop the South Central light rail extension. There may be a case for preserving this building, but the commenters aren't helping the cause.

An earlier post from Preserve PHX give a little more context:

The owner, OIC of Arizona (Opportunities Industrialization Center), is a non-profit organization that works with disadvantaged people and provides various job training and employment skills training program, all of which is admirable.
However, OIC has recently teamed with a developer from San Francisco wanting to buy the building and build a mixed use high rise on the site. They are first seeking a height variance. They have also petitioned to remove the building from the Phoenix Historic Property Register theoretically enabling to demolish the building, yet attempting to retain the east and west facades as a gesture to the Warehouse District and the character of Jackson Street. In effect, this is demolition, or "facadectomy." Yes, there are examples where this has occurred in other cities, but it is by no means an acceptable preservation practice on the national scene. And in this case, the new structure would overwhelm the entry point of the Warehouse District from the standpoint of urban scale and overall context of an area that is already fragmented. Due to the designated status of the building, the whole concept undermines the spirit and intent of the Phoenix historic preservation program and the legal intent of designation.

To me, arguments about "scale" and "context" are too NIMBYish to be credible. I wish this building's advocates would talk a little more about its architectural and historic significance.

[PHXFlyer11]

In my opinion, there’s a bit of irony in that to save the warehouse district you must destroy it — well, part of it. Let’s face it, many of the buildings have been vacant for two decades with little chance of being developed— even after the arena and ballpark moved downtown. A few were revived, but it didn’t last long (Cooper’s town, Jackson’s on 3rd, Coach and Willies). A couple of offices, but it doesn’t do much for the area...

I think an influx of high-density residential is the only thing that gives any portion of the warehouse district a chance to survive. Will some of the warehouses be sacrificed along the way, yes! But it gives the remaining a better chance of being redeveloped. Otherwise you’re stuck in stagnation and deterioration.

[biggus diggus]

The land under chase is worth more than the building but the demo and remediation costs will prohibit remodeling for residential, I'd suspect. For that reason I don't expect it to be demolished. The current owners bought it for a pretty decent price so I think there are two likely outcomes:

1. Cut costs and operate it as a class b building. Between the decreased office demand and their low investment to recoup, this might work.

2. Capital improvements and flip. I think this is what will happen. The time is right. Do it now.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

As added bonuses, there are comments in which every sentence ends with multiple exclamation points, random use of allcaps for no apparent reason, and people still fighting to stop the South Central light rail extension. There may be a case for preserving this building, but the commenters aren't helping the cause.

An earlier post from Preserve PHX give a little more context:

The owner, OIC of Arizona (Opportunities Industrialization Center), is a non-profit organization that works with disadvantaged people and provides various job training and employment skills training program, all of which is admirable.
However, OIC has recently teamed with a developer from San Francisco wanting to buy the building and build a mixed use high rise on the site. They are first seeking a height variance. They have also petitioned to remove the building from the Phoenix Historic Property Register theoretically enabling to demolish the building, yet attempting to retain the east and west facades as a gesture to the Warehouse District and the character of Jackson Street. In effect, this is demolition, or "facadectomy." Yes, there are examples where this has occurred in other cities, but it is by no means an acceptable preservation practice on the national scene. And in this case, the new structure would overwhelm the entry point of the Warehouse District from the standpoint of urban scale and overall context of an area that is already fragmented. Due to the designated status of the building, the whole concept undermines the spirit and intent of the Phoenix historic preservation program and the legal intent of designation.

To me, arguments about "scale" and "context" are too NIMBYish to be credible. I wish this building's advocates would talk a little more about its architectural and historic significance.

I hate it when NIMBYs deliberately lie or otherwise omit critical information: they're rehabilitating the north side as well as preserving the east and west sides.

I think they also neglect that it would be basically impossible to bring this building up to code and market it if its tenant left and this becomes a public use rather than a doomed white elephant that's presently a private office. Not to mention the nonprofit gets a surge in money as part of the redevelopment.

I like preservation, but if the preservations win, this building is destined to be a parking lot.

And this building doesn't have significance except for it being big, the fact it contributes to the overall district, and its prism roof lights--the first two don't change, the latter is something nobody would know or care about unless they read the NRHP entry. I'm probably the first person to do that in years.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

As added bonuses, there are comments in which every sentence ends with multiple exclamation points, random use of allcaps for no apparent reason, and people still fighting to stop the South Central light rail extension.

When I see people communicating their thoughts with caps lock, misused exclamation marks, and answering their own questions I just turn them off. These people have no cogent thought process, they're just blowing their emotions at people.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

...
er again unlike the small midrises like One Camelback and One Lexington.

Chase is an umanned ghost ship floating in the water as far as I can tell. It can't get where it needs to and probably won't. I can't find a future for it that is representative of the money someone would want to spend to make it viable again.

I dont know if its even worth the cost of demolition.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Formwork for the roof is being put into place for Adeline. Should be topping out in a week or so. Grabbed a few pics.

I have to add, it's amazing what changes that have taken place with this view since I have moved here back in 2013. Imagining this view without Adeline, Block 23 and even the Cityscape Residences all not being there. I wish I had some comparison pics to post.

[Diamonddave]

Great pics Crested and just think five years ago all that space was opened up for the outdoor activities for the super bowl.

[IndyAZ]

Originally Posted by combusean

I like preservation, but if the preservations win, this building is destined to be a parking lot.

Completely agree, the preservationists want it to be renovated as is, but that just doesn't pencil out for developers, or else it would have been done already.

The proposal saves the significant facades and creates a really nice project that adds to the downtown and helps revitalize that area, not to mention the City tax base.

I would be absolutely shocked if this project doesn't receive approval from the City. If not it will just sit there until it deteriorates long enough for someone to receive a demo permit to tear it down, which would be a shame.