Winnipeg Retail

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

it wasnt planned properly

But how could it have been planned better? It incorporated a lot of really good design elements, a large residential population, mixed use, etc. The design incorporated ample interaction with the sidewalk/street, but it still didn't work. The retail units along Portage Ave didn't use the street entrances much or for very long -- I'm guessing for security reasons. I like what they tried to do along the Promenade behind the mall. It looks like an area that should be quite lively. But it just never worked. The businesses along the Promenade could take advantage of the sidewalk or street, but most never did. Residents (for convenience, safety, comfort) don't use the sidewalks, they move through the skywalks or drive directly into the underground parking bunker. How could they have avoided this with better planning? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

[cllew]

Your right about the store fronts, the merchants had too much product going out the front door or the mall depending on where they had the cash desk. There was too much cost in having a loss prevention person to monitor one exit vs closing the street front off.

Some also found by closing off the front they could get another false wall in and gain a little more storage space.

Other than Staples which sort of has a street entrance and mall entrance, I think HMV music was last one to have a mall and street way in and out.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by cllew

Other than Staples which sort of has a street entrance and mall entrance, I think HMV music was last one to have a mall and street way in and out.

When Shopper's moved in they had a street level entrance in operation for a very brief period before they closed it off. Much like HMV that had effectively closed their entrance and as mentioned early it seems they are the target of high loss levels. I am betting that Staples wishes they had not agreed to the layout they have as it makes it impossible to have only a single entry point.

[dennis]

For those of you that expect Portage Place to become an office complex, let me ask; What if our downtown becomes like that in other Canadian cities far into the future? Will Portage Place be repurposed to house stores like Holt Renfrew, Aritzia, BCBGMAXAZARIA. like the Core in Calgary, City Centre in Edmonton and Eaton Centre in Toronto?

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by dennis

For those of you that expect Portage Place to become an office complex, let me ask; What if our downtown becomes like that in other Canadian cities far into the future? Will Portage Place be repurposed to house stores like Holt Renfrew, Aritzia, BCBGMAXAZARIA. like the Core in Calgary, City Centre in Edmonton and Eaton Centre in Toronto?

Probably no? Sadly no, because I wish downtown could become a retail destination again, but I fear Winnipeggers will never embrace the idea that downtown is the place for high-end retail chain stores like those you mention.

On the other hand, unique niche retail may well come alive in the Exchange in the near future. Chain stores, not so much.

[esquire]

^ If our downtown is full of big spenders 25 years from now and there's money to be made, developers will pony up for new stores. It's not like Portage Place is the be all and end all of downtown retail.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by dennis

For those of you that expect Portage Place to become an office complex, let me ask; What if our downtown becomes like that in other Canadian cities far into the future? Will Portage Place be repurposed to house stores like Holt Renfrew, Aritzia, BCBGMAXAZARIA. like the Core in Calgary, City Centre in Edmonton and Eaton Centre in Toronto?

Maybe.

For now they need to lease the space and pay the bills.

We're a long way away from having a downtown anything like those cities though, particularly Toronto. People actually live and work downtown there, whole different ball game.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Probably no? Sadly no, because I wish downtown could become a retail destination again, but I fear Winnipeggers will never embrace the idea that downtown is the place for high-end retail chain stores like those you mention.

On the other hand, unique niche retail may well come alive in the Exchange in the near future. Chain stores, not so much.

I, like most here wish the same thing, downtown a retail hub.

It has to be a gradual and generational progression. When, and if the population mass increases to a critical level in the core, so will the number of establishments catering to those who embrace downtown living and wish to shop their. We're just starting to rid ourselves of the downtown living /shopping stigma with safety issues being another major concern in this regards. Add where am I going to Park when shopping? The malls of the suburbs and their free unlimited space are still a huge draw to many people. It will take much time and effort to convince them otherwise.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by dennis

Will Portage Place be repurposed to house stores like Holt Renfrew, Aritzia, BCBGMAXAZARIA. like the Core in Calgary

You don't have to go that far back to remember when The Core in Calgary was struggling to find tenants for it's upper floors.

Sure it always had a Holt Renfrew and Harry Rosen, but the mall really only started to pick up in the last 5 years or so.

[cllew]

The city and the downtown BIZ have to get the rest of the players involved to make the downtown look better. Right now most of the downtown is dark as all of the street lights are off. Driving down Portage and up Main to Rupert is not the most inviting in the dark.

With concerts the next few nights at MTS center it will be interesting to see if Manitoba Hydro hustles to get the lights back on so people will have the perception that downtown is safe.

[CoryB]

Not surprising, Sobey's will be closing more stores. The full list is expected tomorrow as part of their quarterly financials. The following union stores received closure notices today:


The Maples IGA on Jefferson Avenue
Safeway #707 on Ness Avenue at Sturgeon Road
Garden City Safeway #712 on Leila Avenue at McPhillips Street
Safeway #628 in Brandon
Safeway #622 in Steinbach

source

No word if Red River Coop or anyone else will be picking up these locations.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Not surprising, Sobey's will be closing more stores. The full list is expected tomorrow as part of their quarterly financials. The following union stores received closure notices today:


The Maples IGA on Jefferson Avenue
Safeway #707 on Ness Avenue at Sturgeon Road
Garden City Safeway #712 on Leila Avenue at McPhillips Street
Safeway #628 in Brandon
Safeway #622 in Steinbach

source

No word if Red River Coop or anyone else will be picking up these locations.

Maples and Garden City... that's interesting.

[cheswick]

I worked at the Maples IGA for a number of years while in school. Sad to hear its closing. It used to be pretty busy there, but by the time I quit which was 7 years ago there was already talk of them closing it down. The speculation was when Walmart opened its full grocery section it really hurt business.

[cllew]

Don't know if it ever got repaired but 707 on Ness had structural problems in the back of the store. No large Sobeys near but a small one a little north west on Cavallier Dr.

Because 712 in the Garden City Square is so close to the one at McPhillips and Jefferson its not a surprise that its slated for closing. That was rumored for years to happen when the lease came up for renewal.

Steinbach Safeway is a relatively new store but there is a Sobeys (old Penner Foods location) in the Clearspring Mall about a block or so north on Hwy 12. I remember when an ex GF was one of the Safeway cashier / trainers sent there from her store Winnipeg to help open it.

The Brandon Safeway has a Sobeys across the street which I think is newer. This will leave Safeway with only one store in Brandon at the Corral Center.

Would not be surprised to see more of the Safeway / Sobey's in close quarters close down. Off the top of my head Burrows at Kewaitian and Panet Road both have competing stores either across the street or a block or so apart.

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by cllew

Don't know if it ever got repaired but 707 on Ness had structural problems in the back of the store. No large Sobeys near but a small one a little north west on Cavallier Dr.

Because 712 in the Garden City Square is so close to the one at McPhillips and Jefferson its not a surprise that its slated for closing. That was rumored for years to happen when the lease came up for renewal.

Steinbach Safeway is a relatively new store but there is a Sobeys (old Penner Foods location) in the Clearspring Mall about a block or so north on Hwy 12. I remember when an ex GF was one of the Safeway cashier / trainers sent there from her store Winnipeg to help open it.

The Brandon Safeway has a Sobeys across the street which I think is newer. This will leave Safeway with only one store in Brandon at the Corral Center.

Would not be surprised to see more of the Safeway / Sobey's in close quarters close down. Off the top of my head Burrows at Kewaitian and Panet Road both have competing stores either across the street or a block or so apart.

When all the dust settles, would be interesting to tally up all the full serve grocery stores that remain. Will we ultimately have more or fewer grocery outlets? Even if Target and Walmart can be considered full serve grocery (is this correct?), I imagine Winnipeg will be left with fewer grocery options than before? Unless perhaps Red River Co-op goes into groceries in a big way. Also, is there any possibility of a new player coming to town, like Save-On Foods?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

When all the dust settles, would be interesting to tally up all the full serve grocery stores that remain. Will we ultimately have more or fewer grocery outlets? Even if Target and Walmart can be considered full serve grocery (is this correct?), I imagine Winnipeg will be left with fewer grocery options than before? Unless perhaps Red River Co-op goes into groceries in a big way. Also, is there any possibility of a new player coming to town, like Save-On Foods?

It does seem that the new Wal-Mart Supercenter grocery sections are offsetting the older-style supermarkets that are closing. New Targets with grocery sections will do the same thing. So we're essentially going from a grocery landscape that looks like this:

-Safeway
-Superstore
-Sobeys
-Costco
-Independents

To this:
-Sobeys (including Safeway)
-Superstore
-Wal-Mart
-Target
-Co-op
-Costco
-Independents

More players, but perhaps fewer stores - especially the smaller neighbourhood-type locations. Given how many companies are in the market and how few ideal locations there will be available after the Sobeys/Safeway merger is totally complete, I'd be pretty surprised if a new-to-Winnipeg company like Metro or Save-On-Foods wanted in.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by esquire

It does seem that the new Wal-Mart Supercenter grocery sections are offsetting the older-style supermarkets that are closing. New Targets with grocery sections will do the same thing. So we're essentially going from a grocery landscape that looks like this:

-Safeway
-Superstore
-Sobeys
-Costco
-Independents

To this:
-Sobeys (including Safeway)
-Superstore
-Wal-Mart
-Target
-Co-op
-Costco
-Independents

More players, but perhaps fewer stores - especially the smaller neighbourhood-type locations. Given how many companies are in the market and how few ideal locations there will be available after the Sobeys/Safeway merger is totally complete, I'd be pretty surprised if a new-to-Winnipeg company like Metro or Save-On-Foods wanted in.

Aside from the players, I would be interested in what happens in these buildings... I remember reading an article from the states about what happens to Walmart stores when they close. Because of their size and footprint they have (almost) no other use than some sort of box store.

Specifically, the two on Jefferson. I could see Co-op taking over one of the 2, but no way would they open 2 stores so close together this early in their Winnipeg market penetration.

[esquire]

I could see some store sites being redeveloped, but unfortunately the process could take years.

On the plus side, Winnipeg hasn't really hollowed out to the point where there are now scads of unwanted former grocery stores lying around in the inner city the way you might see in some American cities. Other than the couple of former Extra Foods locations that just closed recently, I can't really think of any other locations sitting around empty.

[Mininari]

I'm really surprised that the Pattison brand grocery stores (Save on foods / Price Smart) didn't make an entry into the Winnipeg Market at this point. Its too bad because then you're likely to get more variety, different brands, etc. Plus, from what I can tell, Save On Foods (here in Victoria) is pretty good at sourcing out local products, coffee, meats, produce, etc.

But, nothing wrong with co-op, and I imagine they also work hard to source local when possible.

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by esquire

I could see some store sites being redeveloped, but unfortunately the process could take years.

On the plus side, Winnipeg hasn't really hollowed out to the point where there are now scads of unwanted former grocery stores lying around in the inner city the way you might see in some American cities. Other than the couple of former Extra Foods locations that just closed recently, I can't really think of any other locations sitting around empty.

Does Extra Foods still exist as concept/format in the city? I know it's basically a no frills Superstore, but it still provides some variety to the grocery landscape. Is the Goulet store still in business? Are there any others?

Perhaps we'll see some growth of independents in some of these vacant locations. Family Foods has established itself in at least two former Safeway stores (Portage and Ferry and I believe in St. Vital as well). It wouldn't be a bad outcome if a few more independents were able to establish themselves in these old stores.