Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[tybuilding]

To have a median or not that is the question. Surrey has a love affair with the median on arterial roads mean potential bike routes are gobbled up with the planted/lined median or where are made substandard width where bike lanes do exist due to the lack of road space.

Case in point the brand new 96th Ave 4 lane project from 152nd street to 176st will have 1.3m wide bike lanes (on a 60km/hr road). In the middle of the road there will be a nice wide median with turn lanes at intersections.

Surrey's new bike lane standard is 1.8m but since this upgrade project was approved under the old standard it too will have substandard bike lanes due to those darn medians/turn lanes.

Why can't there be narrower or painted medians instead planted wide ones and real bike lanes? Streets can be made wider locally where turn lanes are required.

PS the outside lane is only 3m wide which means that trucks will be right on the bike lane edge. Have fun cycling out there!

[tybuilding]

Interesting happenings in New York City

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/08/ny...%20bike&st=cse

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...e-lane-cycling

[officedweller]

From NEWS 1130:

High-tech solution for crosswalk delays
It's a road-rage inducing problem
Jesse Johnston Mar 13, 2011 14:33:07 PM

SURREY (NEWS1130) - Few things are more frustrating than stopping your car at a pedestrian controlled crosswalk, even though and there is no one crossing the street.

But now the City of Surrey has come up with a high-tech solution to this road-rage inducing problem.

Councillor Marvin Hunt has had it happen to him. "Often when you're driving, someone will push the button on a crosswalk or they get across quickly and you're sitting there frustrated with this amber light flashing so you can't go across the crosswalk."

The city has come up with the solution of motion detectors. "The light will kick over as soon as they get over to the other side of the street. It will automatically begin to change to keep traffic going."

Currently the idea is being tested at a crosswalk on 24th Avenue at 153rd Street. "We also have a fair amount of seniors, so we want to be able to make sure they safely get to the other side."

According to Hunt, it's the first of its kind in Canada.

[agrant]

That's bazaar. Doesn't a flashing yellow simply mean you should use caution, not stop and wait? I've always assumed you can drive across when there are no people.

[invisibleairwaves]

Oh, for crying out loud. Can Surrey's government just drop the green, pedestrian-friendly image it's been pretending to have lately? Not only do they skimp out on pedestrian facilities at every possible opportunity, they're now spending money to make their infuriatingly rare crosswalks less inconvenient to drivers. You know what's more frustrating than waiting a few extra seconds at a crosswalk? Getting your shoes covered in mud or having to walk on a narrow strip of asphalt inches from speeding cars because the City was too damn cheap to build a sidewalk. Oh, and having to cross the other three sides of the intersection or jaywalk because the City cheaped out and only built crosswalks on three sides of it, if they bothered at all. And I'm not talking out in the sticks here, I mean right in the heart of suburbia along major routes between homes, businesses, schools, and transit facilities.

What a damn joke.

[huenthar]

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

You know what's more frustrating than waiting a few extra seconds at a crosswalk? Getting your shoes covered in mud or having to walk on a narrow strip of asphalt inches from speeding cars because the City was too damn cheap to build a sidewalk.

What he said.

I can think of waaayyy better ways to spend money than experiment with pedestrian safety in order to slightly placate angry, impatient drivers. Plus, as agrant said, doesn't that councillor know he's already allowed to drive through the flashing lights if the crosswalk is clear?

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by huenthar

What he said.

I can think of waaayyy better ways to spend money than experiment with pedestrian safety in order to slightly placate angry, impatient drivers. Plus, as agrant said, doesn't that councillor know he's already allowed to drive through the flashing lights if the crosswalk is clear?

It is really the flashing green/amber/red pedestrian lights are the ones you can't cross.

[dreambrother808]

Are crosswalks really a cause of road rage?

[aberdeen5698]

I've often thought that the cyclist-activated crossing buttons should trigger a shorter cycle of the traffic lights than the pedestrian-activated buttons. A cyclist can get across an intersection in perhaps 5 seconds where a pedestrian requires perhaps 10 to 15 seconds. It seems like a waste to keep cars idling at the intersection long after the cyclist has disappeared.

The only place in Vancouver where I've noted a fast bike signal is at Union and Main for cyclists coming eastbound off the Dunsmuir Viaduct - and that particular signal can't be used by pedestrians.

[officedweller]

If a crosswalk signal can be activated by both a pedestrian and a cyclist - the fact that a pedestrian has not pushed the button doesn't mean that there's no pedestrian there - so just timing wouldn't suffice (guess that's why they're trying motion detectors).

BTW - even for a green,amber, red pedestrian light, I once read in the newspaper that if it is midblock (not at an intersection) you can drive through once the crosswalk is clear. But no one ever does.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I've often thought that the cyclist-activated crossing buttons should trigger a shorter cycle of the traffic lights than the pedestrian-activated buttons. A cyclist can get across an intersection in perhaps 5 seconds where a pedestrian requires perhaps 10 to 15 seconds. It seems like a waste to keep cars idling at the intersection long after the cyclist has disappeared.

Every bike route, cyclist only light in Vancouver functions this way. They are usually on poles right at the road or in the middle of the road or something. I use them all the time.

It confuses pedestrians who don't push the button and start to walk across, and then get caught and run for it.

Essentially they activate the green light but not the white pedestrian walking symbol.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

If a crosswalk signal can be activated by both a pedestrian and a cyclist - the fact that a pedestrian has not pushed the button doesn't mean that there's no pedestrian there - so just timing wouldn't suffice (guess that's why they're trying motion detectors).

If the different buttons produced different results then people would learn pretty quickly to hit the button they need.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Every bike route, cyclist only light in Vancouver functions this way. They are usually on poles right at the road or in the middle of the road or something. I use them all the time.

There are buttons for cyclists, yes - I use them all the time too. But when a cyclist pushes his button it activates the pedestrian crosswalk signal and the signal duration is sufficient for a pedestrian to cross - even if the pedestrian button wasn't pushed. That means traffic waits unnecessarily long after the cyclist has cleared the intersection.

Perhaps its an issue of having to put a "bicycle" signal at the intersection so that the cyclist has a positive indication that he can proceed even though the pedestrian signal doesn't activate.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

If the different buttons produced different results then people would learn pretty quickly to hit the button they need.

Depends at what point in the cycle you reach the crosswalk. I think that if you arrive too close, it may not change the setting.

Same goes for if you arrive at the crosswalk when the traffic light just turns green, but the walk signal doesn't change - what do you do - dash across or wait for the next cycle?
That's one reason that I don't like the Pacific Boulevard crosswalks, since they do or did require a button to be pushed. BTW - has that changed since the new island )without left turn lanes) was installed (providing a place of refuge for pedestrians)?

[invisibleairwaves]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Are crosswalks really a cause of road rage?

As causes of road rage go, I'm guessing they're pretty far down the list, behind "Surrey drivers", "Surrey drivers", "Surrey drivers", "Surrey drivers", and "Guildford".

[Locked In]

Interesting idea...

Cargo trikes set to hit Vancouver bike lanes

By Tracy Sherlock, Vancouver Sun March 20, 2011 4:20 PM

A new zero-emissions delivery service using trikes is set to launch May 1 in Vancouver’s bike lanes.

Five student entrepreneurs have created SHIFT Delivery Co-op, an idea conceived in a Simon Fraser University social-enterprise course.

All five cycling enthusiasts will be riding the trikes, which were imported from England and cost between $3,200 and $3,500.

...

Electric assists are being installed for large loads or going up hills. The trikes can carry up to 272 kilograms.

...

Source: Vancouver Sun

[tybuilding]

Georgia Straight Article:

Here’s how Metro Vancouver cities stack up for cyclists

http://www.straight.com/node/381750

Sadly very little information on South of the Fraser.

[tybuilding]

Encourage Premier Clark to Support Cycling

http://bccyclingcoalition.blogspot.c...o-support.html

Write the government to support BCCC in their recommendation to increase funding for cycling projects.

[tybuilding]

I built a plan for bike boulevards on local streets in Surrey. The Greenways Master Plan was made by the City of Surrey. I added to the plan by adding local streets that would compliment the greenways. They will be easier to get in place before the greenways as most routes would be on existing streets and connecting pedestrian paths.

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?client...,0.659866&z=10

The greenways are shown in Green and the Bike Boulevards in Blue

http://www.surrey.ca/city-services/7773.aspx - Surrey Cycling Page

http://www.surrey.ca/files/Greenways_Map.pdf - Surrey Greenways Master Plan

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

I built a plan for bike boulevards on local streets in Surrey. The Greenways Master Plan was made by the City of Surrey. I added to the plan by adding local streets that would compliment the greenways. They will be easier to get in place before the greenways as most routes would be on existing streets and connecting pedestrian paths.

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?client...,0.659866&z=10

The greenways are shown in Green and the Bike Boulevards in Blue

http://www.surrey.ca/city-services/7773.aspx - Surrey Cycling Page

http://www.surrey.ca/files/Greenways_Map.pdf - Surrey Greenways Master Plan

THIS! Brilliant. Should be an official plan.

[tybuilding]

I updated the map slightly