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  #1801  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 7:33 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I've enjoyed the range of comments on the herald's articles; lots of interesting debate both informed and not.

I find it interesting that save the view brought in this expert. One comment which I submitted, but hasn't yet (and may never be posted) is my examination of the graphs in the STV eastlink movie from their website.

The statement the guy makes is that the convention centre attendance has dropped in the US and Canada.
But if you look at the graphs they show; it does show a drop in Canada and we haven't gotten back to that level; but once it hits bottom, it levels and starts a slowly increasing trend.

For the US, it drops, then bottoms then rises and then drops; so the trend is unbalanced and if I read the times correctly; I'd say it corresponds with the economy - economic growth versus weakness.
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  #1802  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 7:37 PM
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I really like these new renderings! The idea of a skating rink on Grafton is cool. Also, I like the idea of teaming up with NSCAD for the public art; it could produce some interesting results.

If done right, this project could turn out fantastic!
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  #1803  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 7:49 PM
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"It doesn't reflect local culture"

"Okay, we'll make it look like a lighthouse or a sail"
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  #1804  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 7:51 PM
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I've been avoiding this thread recently but WOW! with those new renderings I might start posting more smiley faces.

Let's just hope the art design competition doesnt end up with more lighthouses downtown ...
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  #1805  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 8:29 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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Originally Posted by Dmajackson View Post
I've been avoiding this thread recently but WOW! with those new renderings I might start posting more smiley faces.
Yeah I am back to feeling more positive about this too. The original design did nothing for me... but the article this morning gave me hope that this may turn out ok after all.

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Originally Posted by Dmajackson View Post
Let's just hope the art design competition doesnt end up with more lighthouses downtown ...
Someone I think that chance of that one though is slim (see someone123's comment above). I had the same reaction he did!
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  #1806  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 8:34 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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I'm just worried now that these great renderings make me want this project even more! I had grown a bit ambivalent because of the butt ugly design. This had better not die on the table.
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  #1807  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 8:39 PM
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The glass facade along Argyle makes a huge difference. It also shows the scale of the development and how the convention centre won't be a "basement".

It's good that more information is going out now. It was a very one-sided "debate" before, with one side making up stories and the other refusing to respond.
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  #1808  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 9:11 PM
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Message to STV:
Any town that can attract the Queen Mary II twice in the span of 3 months can certainly attract its fair share of conventions.

WAKE UP!!!!
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  #1809  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 9:12 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
I'm just worried now that these great renderings make me want this project even more! I had grown a bit ambivalent because of the butt ugly design. This had better not die on the table.
I know what you mean. I had gotten to the point of not caring whether it proceeded or not. Now I am back to wanting it to proceed as soon as possible. Please build this!!!!

PS: There are some more details in this story by Roger Taylor - http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1210028.html

I especially like this quote: "Ramia says any cost overruns during construction will be covered by Rank. So the fixed price he quoted is what the governments will pay."

Last edited by fenwick16; Nov 3, 2010 at 9:33 PM.
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  #1810  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Hey, we've got a lighthouse at Casino NB in Moncton too.

Of course, with us it's worse...........the casino is about 5 km inland from the Petitcodiac, which is in turn about 50 km upriver from Shepody Bay.
Which in turn is 276km from Halifax.
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  #1811  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire View Post
Message to STV:
Any town that can attract the Queen Mary II twice in the span of 3 months can certainly attract its fair share of conventions.

WAKE UP!!!!
They know that Halifax can attract conventions. Before Nova Centre they were constantly arguing how crucial tourism was as a pillar of the economy.

They don't care about consistent or correct arguments, they just don't want highrises built downtown.
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  #1812  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 10:52 PM
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They know that Halifax can attract conventions. Before Nova Centre they were constantly arguing how crucial tourism was as a pillar of the economy.

They don't care about consistent or correct arguments, they just don't want highrises built downtown.
Agreed, they count on people "not in the know" for their support. Their hidden agenda is always about the building height. They know that 10% of people know what they are up to and therefore don't care because they have 90% in their back pocket. They need to be called out...........
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  #1813  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 10:59 PM
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the view

May I ask a naive question? why does the view matter?so what if the harbour is obscured for a few folks peering down for a few minutes from citadel.

May I be so bold as to suggest a CC and stadium allon the citadell hill and surrounding property,
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  #1814  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 11:14 PM
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May I be so bold as to suggest a CC and stadium all on the citadell hill and surrounding property,
You obviously don't value your life, do you..........
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  #1815  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 11:15 PM
Phalanx Phalanx is offline
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I'm assuming it has something to do with the history of the Citadel. One of the exhibits at the Citadel points out the commanding view of the harbour available from the citadel, and how this was a key to its defence.
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  #1816  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dartboy View Post
May I ask a naive question? why does the view matter?so what if the harbour is obscured for a few folks peering down for a few minutes from citadel.
We can debate the value of the view but it is irrelevant - there are viewplane bylaws to protect the view from the hill and the Nova Centre proposal was designed in accordance with them. There will still be views of the harbour entrance and George's Island if the development moves forward.

Save the View have tried to skirt around this issue, attempting to turn it into yet another public vs. developer debate. Empire is correct in stating that this relies on 90% of people not knowing what is going on.
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  #1817  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 11:24 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by Dartboy View Post
May I ask a naive question? why does the view matter?so what if the harbour is obscured for a few folks peering down for a few minutes from citadel.

May I be so bold as to suggest a CC and stadium allon the citadell hill and surrounding property,
I don't think this is a bad question at all and I've had some exposure to the history during my brief time with the city; but also because I found it very interesting. If I miss something or I'm wrong; please someone correct me. So obviously the history of Halifax was that the citadell was a part of the defensive mechanism to the city (combined with Yorke Redoubt and George's Island and I also think McNabs island too??). So because we are one of the older cities in Canada, we have a lot of older heritage buildings.

In the late 60's and early 70's, there was a rash of projects to rejuvinate older areas of cities that were getting run down and were in need of a push - this wasn't specific to Halifax. This caused a number of older buildings to be taken down and started the heritage push; which eventually saw the citadell named a national historic site. Thus it became a tourist attraction and probably always was and became part of the tourism draw.

Then enter into the late 70's when the city started seeing some economic growth and a number of buildings were proposed (Fenwick and Maritime Centre). Now I don't know where the city stood on those (whether City Council said no and they were granted on appeal) but they eventually got built. It was these projects that caused a huge issue with the heritage groups and pushed Halifax to create the viewplanes that exist today. The main concept that was behind it was to strike a balance between the heritage groups desire to preserve the entire view (360 degrees) and the desire to build in the downtown and around the hill on all sides.

Over the years; the Halifax planning strategy got changed to have a policy put in to encourage the city to try to preserve, enhance or restore the view - why that got in I don't know why because the city isn't going to take down buildings like Maritime Centre and give up those tax dollars so the view improves.

So there is a variety of layers of planning rules related to building height around the citadell. Along Brunswick Street there is a certain set of rules, in addition to the building height maps (pre/post bonus) for HRM by Design, then the viewplanes and then finally the rampart rule. So for building height along Brunswick Street, the height of the Metro Centre is pretty much at max for what can happen along Brunswick Street in that area (with the exception of the apartment buildings above Scotia Square).

Personally; I accept the principle of why the viewplanes were created and I think they do well to achieve their goal. However, I do believe that the MPS policy to 'restore' the view is BS. It should be removed. Certainly some of the opinions of the heritage groups that 'walling' off the protected view is an issue; it creates a view tunnel (for a lack of a better way to phrase it). However, if that's an issue I'm sure staff can come up with something that could reduce the walling effect by requiring buildings over a certain height to be pushed away from the viewplane by a certain distance.
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  #1818  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 11:32 PM
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The Maritime Centre was post-viewplane. That is why it's built on an angle.

I think there's a tendency to put vague requirements in the MPS because they make people happy but do not cost anything up front. It is a terrible practice because it is so open to interpretation (and costs over the long term when the URB is constantly required to interpret what it means to "promote heritage" or whatever).
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  #1819  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 11:34 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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The Maritime Centre was post-viewplane. That is why it's built on an angle.
Yes; but it was proposed prior to the viewplanes, from what I've been able to find out. I may still be wrong, I've never been able to get a concrete answer.
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  #1820  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2010, 11:38 PM
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Yes; but it was proposed prior to the viewplanes, from what I've been able to find out. I may still be wrong, I've never been able to get a concrete answer.
Wikipedia says the bylaw was enacted concurrently but there aren't a lot of details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_Centre_(Halifax)

Apparently the Capitol came down in 1974 and the building was done in 1977 (first 14 floors). The next 7 floors went up in 1988.
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