CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by k1052

O'Hare gate deal takes off—nine more now, likely dozens soon after

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...ens-soon-after

Biggest potential for change may be this line in the article:

Delta, for instance, after all but abandoning O'Hare a few years ago, now uses eight gates and wants a "significant' expansion.

Naturally UA and AA would strenuously fight a large Delta presence, but if their monopolistic/duopolistic desires can be kept in check by city planners --- could ORD grow into the country's only tri-carrier hub (of mega carriers)? It wouldn't be a full-fledged Delta hub by any stretch, but, currently, DL doesn't fly anywhere from ORD other than its own big hubs. Presumably they'd much prefer ORD over nearby DTW in many ways, at least to the extent they wouldn't significantly sacrifice the benefits of their effective monopoly in Detroit. Since we're talking about multi-decade timeframes, you have to wonder whether a mid-21st-century bet on Detroit, as a major city and economic center that can support an inter-continental gateway, makes much sense (sorry!).

Anyhow, can't wait for tomorrow's presentation.

[the urban politician]

Why can't Chicago tell American to move their HQ here? OHare duopoly as leverage

[k1052]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Naturally UA and AA would strenuously fight a large Delta presence, but if their monopolistic/duopolistic desires can be kept in check by city planners --- could ORD grow into the country's only tri-carrier hub (of mega carriers)? It wouldn't be a full-fledged Delta hub by any stretch, but, currently, DL doesn't fly anywhere from ORD other than its own big hubs.

Delta clearly wants to re-expand outside hub service if they're desiring a "significant" expansion, which their current gate count is more than sufficient to service. The idea of Delta rebuilding a hub here does not seem far fetched now.

[Kngkyle]

The city has literally tons of leverage with the gate leases expiring for the entire airport coming up soon. If Delta wants 'significant' expansion then that makes three heavyweights with big pocketbooks and huge quarterly profits who will be fighting to control as many gates as they can. The city can basically say 'alright, you will get gates based on how much money you commit to the airport's terminal redevelopment' and then it becomes a 3-way bidding war. The airlines didn't really kick in anything (that I'm aware of) for the runway expansion, instead just letting the city to increase the passenger fees.

[ardecila]

Which raises some interesting questions about western access. I agree that a western terminal may be unneeded especially given the new plan, but a western access point with a dropoff zone, an underground people mover connection and security checkpoints could be built at a fraction of the cost.

If they restricted the access point to only those passengers without checked bags (or forced passengers to gate check), it would simplify things even more. Maybe they could even build a surface-level busway across the airfield with a few taxiway underpasses to avoid the cost of a rail system.

[BVictor1]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...715-story.html

More gates at O'Hare could mean fewer delays, less crowding: city, expert

By Hal Dardick and Mary Wisniewski Contact Reporters
Chicago Tribune

July 16, 2016

In a move that could reduce passenger delays, the major airlines operating out of O'Hare International Airport have agreed to not only add up to nine gates but also a more ambitious plan to rebuild Terminal 2.

The CEOs of the major rival O'Hare airlines — United and American — were on stage at a news conference at O'Hare Friday, along with Mayor Rahm Emanuel, Aviation Commissioner Ginger Evans and U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin (D), all enthusing about what the multibillion dollar expansion could do for the city's economy.

"New York, London, Berlin, Beijing — watch out, Chicago's coming for you," Emanuel told reporters.

Although many new runways have been built under a long-term expansion of the airport, a deal on new gates has eluded the city and airlines, with dominant carriers United and American worried about making way for too much competition.

[nomarandlee]

It was said in one of the articles that there was 6 potential layouts of the reconstruction of the new terminals presented at the conference. I've seen one but would love to see the others.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

It was said in one of the articles that there was 6 potential layouts of the reconstruction of the new terminals presented at the conference. I've seen one but would love to see the others.

http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/n...tional.html#i1

Not the best picture but you can make out generally what they're thinking about satellite concourses in the midfield. The slides don't seem to be online anywhere I can locate.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by k1052

http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/n...tional.html#i1

Not the best picture but you can make out generally what they're thinking about satellite concourses in the midfield. The slides don't seem to be online anywhere I can locate.

Looks like their really just spit-balling ideas and nothing is really settled on, apart from the T5 expansion.

[Jenner]

Is there a diagram of the proposed added gates for T5?

[Chicago29]

Originally Posted by Jenner

Is there a diagram of the proposed added gates for T5?

From Curbed- http://chicago.curbed.com/2016/7/18/...-ohare-airport



Interesting to see the 'central facility' renderings. This is probably many years away and probably one of many proposed ideas. Interesting idea to try to maximize space. That would be a ma$$ive project. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...ens-soon-after

[NikolasM]

I was about to try and post that picture. I saw a blurb that said there were six options presented. This one seems to unnecessarily do away with Terminal 3/AA, but wow, quite a vision for the future!

[N830MH]

According of ORD terminal map. Is that RJ gates in the midfield satellite terminal? I thought it was for deicing pads. Can you please explain to me. What is the plan for ORD terminal renovation?

[Jenner]

Thank you for the diagram. I also saw the same subject come up in airliners.net, which had the same diagram, albeit smaller size:
http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewt...?f=3&t=1337937

Originally Posted by N830MH

According of ORD terminal map. Is that RJ gates in the midfield satellite terminal? I thought it was for deicing pads. Can you please explain to me. What is the plan for ORD terminal renovation?

The rendering should not be considered "gospel", with the possible exception of the new international terminal gates. United and American have a lot of say in the process, and I'm sure that the configuration provided is not what they have in mind. In fact, I'm sure some of us could come up with something better.

I wonder if United and American will transfer all their international flights to the international terminal in order to free up gate space in their existing concourses?

[kbud]

The tough part about ORD is that you can't just close a terminal down as the airport is so busy. I wonder if Delta actually moves to T5. They can begin to construct some remote new T2 gates/concourses then eventually tear down the Delta finger in T2.

I also wonder if AA 's new L concourse Eagle gates will allow them to move out of their current Eagle concourse between T2 and T3 as an interim step. Then UA can move their express gates in T2 to AA's old Eagle concourse (per point above), then T2 can be demolished at once.

Problem solved

[LouisVanDerWright]

No shots of the A-380 from today?

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

No shots of the A-380 from today?

Not my pictures, pulling these from facebook.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by kbud

The tough part about ORD is that you can't just close a terminal down as the airport is so busy. I wonder if Delta actually moves to T5. They can begin to construct some remote new T2 gates/concourses then eventually tear down the Delta finger in T2.

I also wonder if AA 's new L concourse Eagle gates will allow them to move out of their current Eagle concourse between T2 and T3 as an interim step. Then UA can move their express gates in T2 to AA's old Eagle concourse (per point above), then T2 can be demolished at once.

Problem solved

My recollection is that the new L gates are just for E175s which are too big to fit in the G gates and are sucking up valuable space in H/K. I presume as more and more E series planes are flown by American's regional partners we'll eventually see G (at least in part) reconfigured for them. The addition is also way to small to handle all of AA's regional needs so there's no way they're giving up the G concourse.

[F1 Tommy]

The A380 is not as big as everyone thinks...Its 10 feet shorter than a 747 8I but it does have a huge wing wich the airlines(Emirates) wants them to shrink along with adding newer engines. The 777X10 will kill that project and put the A380 into the history(unless the European Union wants to blow a lot of money. Since the wings are made in England I am not sure the Brits will go for that again) books if Boeing ever builds it. This will be the second time Boeing kills an Airbus 4 engine aircraft(777 VS A340)

[k1052]

Originally Posted by F1 Tommy

The A380 is not as big as everyone thinks...Its 10 feet shorter than a 747 8I but it does have a huge wing wich the airlines(Emirates) wants them to shrink along with adding newer engines. The 777X10 will kill that project and put the A380 into the history(unless the European Union wants to blow a lot of money. Since the wings are made in England I am not sure the Brits will go for that again) books if Boeing ever builds it. This will be the second time Boeing kills an Airbus 4 engine aircraft(777 VS A340)

The A380 is definitely on it's way out over the long term regardless. Boeing and Airbus's order books are chocked full of demand for twinjets. This is good for Chicago since the 787/A350 (and Boeing's potential 757 replacement) are excellent fits for our market's international reach.