HARRISBURG-LANCASTER-LEBANON-YORK | South Central, PA | Regional Development Thread

[EastSideHBG]

Nearby, there is the affluent and picturesque Shipoke neighborhood with its Queen Anne-style homes and river views.

That's where I lived before I moved here to the Philly area. I do miss it quite a bit, as it is a very charming neighborhood, very close to the river, downtown and all of the riverfront events were at your doorstep...

"I do wish it was a little bigger. It's a small city."

That is definitely me too and exactly why I couldn't stay.

Great article, Evergrey, thanks!

[Young Gun]

It would be quite nice if the city was 90,000 but where would you put everybody? I know there are still a lot of vacant properties in the city, but I don't think you could comfortable put another 41,000 people, not without a lot of new construction. I guess population density was much higher. In my building we have 3 people living in 3,000sq. ft. I guess that isn't too efficient.

[EastSideHBG]

No comment...

http://nationalsportshalloffame.net/

[harrisburger]

i think we all know it'll fail.

if they can't get the national african-american museum (or whatever they call it) off the ground, this will never stat. especially with the financial state of the city. and the ballpark was supposed to be done awhile ago, no?
it's hard to get angry at it. it's more of a desperate plea for attention, which i find to be quite charming.

in other news, harrisburg is slowly but surely coming alive this time of year. they're are some wonderful new additions to 2nd st. and beyond, and with the upcoming hacc/harrisburg u. additions, it won't stop anytime soon. the city is brimming with excitement and it is hard to get caught up with stories like these.

[Young Gun]

Surprised no body else posted this... Can you believe the mayor actually made a sound investment? Now the part about renovating the park for $16M is typical Reed.

http://www.pennlive.com/patriotnews/...310.xml&coll=1

Thursday, May 17, 2007
BY ANDREW LINKER
Of The Patriot-News
Twelve years ago, when the city was forced to buy its minor league baseball team or watch it move out of state, Mayor Stephen R. Reed said he had no interest in running the Harrisburg Senators.

Reed said then he would sell the team as soon as possible.

Yesterday, he finally did, agreeing to turn over the city's Class AA Eastern League team to the son of Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf for $13.25 million -- nearly twice what the city paid for it after the 1995 season.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Young Gun

Surprised no body else posted this... Can you believe the mayor actually made a sound investment? Now the part about renovating the park for $16M is typical Reed.

http://www.pennlive.com/patriotnews/...310.xml&coll=1

Thursday, May 17, 2007
BY ANDREW LINKER
Of The Patriot-News
Twelve years ago, when the city was forced to buy its minor league baseball team or watch it move out of state, Mayor Stephen R. Reed said he had no interest in running the Harrisburg Senators.

Reed said then he would sell the team as soon as possible.

Yesterday, he finally did, agreeing to turn over the city's Class AA Eastern League team to the son of Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf for $13.25 million -- nearly twice what the city paid for it after the 1995 season.

Yeah I just heard about this the other day. I'm hoping a new stadium will be built ASAP now too.

[PaSkyX]

Barnes & Noble is coming to the Harrisburg Mall
The owner of the Harrisburg Mall has pulled in a lease for a 30,000-square-foot Barnes & Noble book store, which will include a Starbucks café. Construction of the store will begin over the next few months. The store, which will flank the mall’s main entrance, should open during the first half of 2008.

That's actually amazing. I might have something to do when I come home now, lol. But seriously, I think it's kinda sad that Harrisburg didn't even get a Starbucks until late 2003. I feel the region is just depressingly slow about getting anything done. Not to mention that it suffers from not really having a university closeby, and it lacks any sort of significant art scene. In addition, I'm familiar with those types who go downtown, and really, there's just no attraction for me to ever go anywhere on 2nd street, except perhaps Fisagas, since it's relatively cheap (well, coming from a NYC perspective), and I feel like the food is actually pretty good. In addition, it's relatively easy to get to any big city on a weekend, since Harrisburg really seems in the center of Philly-NYC-Baltimore-DC-Pittsburgh, but I don't think it makes it any more attractive from the standpoint that a large majority of the people who live there are horrifyingly conservative. I guess my main problem with the area is that I feel that it lacks are really strong artistic/intellectual scene, so it sorta nullifies any benefits that relate to it's location and incredibly cheap cost of living.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by PaSkyX

That's actually amazing. I might have something to do when I come home now, lol. But seriously, I think it's kinda sad that Harrisburg didn't even get a Starbucks until late 2003. I feel the region is just depressingly slow about getting anything done. Not to mention that it suffers from not really having a university closeby, and it lacks any sort of significant art scene. In addition, I'm familiar with those types who go downtown, and really, there's just no attraction for me to ever go anywhere on 2nd street, except perhaps Fisagas, since it's relatively cheap (well, coming from a NYC perspective), and I feel like the food is actually pretty good. In addition, it's relatively easy to get to any big city on a weekend, since Harrisburg really seems in the center of Philly-NYC-Baltimore-DC-Pittsburgh, but I don't think it makes it any more attractive from the standpoint that a large majority of the people who live there are horrifyingly conservative. I guess my main problem with the area is that I feel that it lacks are really strong artistic/intellectual scene, so it sorta nullifies any benefits that relate to it's location and incredibly cheap cost of living.

I totally agree, PaSkyX. Well with just about everything except for Fisaga, as I am not a fan at all. But I guess this matters not, as it looks like Fisaga in its current form will be no more soon:

http://www.harrisburgnightlife.com/w.../fisaga-spice/

But yeah, I too don't like how change is so sloooow in the HBG area (if it even happens at all) and how extremely conservative it is; these are the exact reasons I had to get out of there. Many of the people there seem to like it just the way it is and that is completely fine of course, but it was not working for me...

[PaSkyX]

Oh wow, it's going? Eh, it's ok. I don't mind that much, I almost never went downtown.

Many of the people there seem to like it just the way it is and that is completely fine of course, but it was not working for me...

This is soooo true. It's probably what I hate the most though - people are completely comfortable being small-minded - it's like they pride themselves on it or something. ::sigh::, but yeah, it's basically why I'll never move back to the area. I really can't deal with the whole mindset of central PA, and it's beyond frustrating to have to come home to that when I visit my mom.

[Evergrey]

That's too bad... I enjoyed Fisaga and thought it was a pretty cool place for Harrisburg to have. It had that "garage door" wall thing like a year before every other place in the world decided to do it.

[danwxman]

Originally Posted by PaSkyX

That's actually amazing. I might have something to do when I come home now, lol. But seriously, I think it's kinda sad that Harrisburg didn't even get a Starbucks until late 2003. I feel the region is just depressingly slow about getting anything done. Not to mention that it suffers from not really having a university closeby, and it lacks any sort of significant art scene. In addition, I'm familiar with those types who go downtown, and really, there's just no attraction for me to ever go anywhere on 2nd street, except perhaps Fisagas, since it's relatively cheap (well, coming from a NYC perspective), and I feel like the food is actually pretty good. In addition, it's relatively easy to get to any big city on a weekend, since Harrisburg really seems in the center of Philly-NYC-Baltimore-DC-Pittsburgh, but I don't think it makes it any more attractive from the standpoint that a large majority of the people who live there are horrifyingly conservative. I guess my main problem with the area is that I feel that it lacks are really strong artistic/intellectual scene, so it sorta nullifies any benefits that relate to it's location and incredibly cheap cost of living.

Camp Hill has had a Barnes & Noble for years. I'm actually surprised it has taken this long for one to open up on the east shore, that's kind of been Borders territory. The Harrisburg Mall really needs more high-end stores, and stores to open up their flagship central PA location in the mall. Having a New York and Co. and American Eagle is great but you can get that at all the other malls in the area. Bass Pro Shops is a start but they need a lot more. I think the streetscape project is really interesting and I hope they get some good tenants.

About the people in this area, yes it's majority conservative. THAT is changing. Harrisburg's midtown has always been the liberal enclave of the area, and it has a burgeoning arts scene with a few galleries and bookstores. That will only get better with the opening of the Midtown Arts Center in the old PAL (Police Athletic League) building. I've noticed a distinct change just in the years growing up here. The area is definitely seeing more migration from the bigger cities, and those people are bringing their less conservative values with them. John Kerry was the first Democratic Presidential candidate to make a stop in Harrisburg since Kennedy I believe. It also has to do with what you surround yourself with. All of my friends are liberal and open-minded, and yes we realize we are the minority around here for now....but that's fine.

I will be transferring to Harrisburg University in the fall. After meeting with a lot of the staff and professors (many live in Harrisburg) it's really exciting being a part of Harrisburg's future (and eventually history). Just like ten years ago the city was completely different, I think ten years from now it will be even more different.

[danwxman]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

That's too bad... I enjoyed Fisaga and thought it was a pretty cool place for Harrisburg to have. It had that "garage door" wall thing like a year before every other place in the world decided to do it.

I have to admit I've never had a bad experience at Fisaga. The food was decent and service was okay. I just know to stay away from it on weekend nights when the place is packed with wanna-be gangsters and it's impossible to get service at the small bar.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

That's too bad... I enjoyed Fisaga and thought it was a pretty cool place for Harrisburg to have. It had that "garage door" wall thing like a year before every other place in the world decided to do it.

I do have to give it to Fisaga's for that, and the garage door idea was very original and added a lot to the 2nd St. scene.

danwxman, my hat is off to you and I am glad HBG has people like you still there! But in a sense you proved our point:

Harrisburg's midtown has always been the liberal enclave of the area...

A few blocks in comparison to an entire region.

Just like ten years ago the city was completely different, I think ten years from now it will be even more different.

Ten years is a VERY long time, other cities can and will do so much more in those ten years, and I found life to be far too short to wait around for what HBG will (may?) be...

And as far as this point goes:

The area is definitely seeing more migration from the bigger cities, and those people are bringing their less conservative values with them.

I too have noticed a lot of people coming from outside of the area and from bigger places (and also people who once lived in HBG, left for a bigger place and are now back) BUT most of those people seem to be families or people ready to start a family. That contributes something to an area of course and it can be a great thing, but there are still many pieces of the puzzle left out. I think HBG should work very hard to attract those other pieces of the puzzle. HBG Univ. and a few of the other projects may help, but so much more needs to be done.

Anyway, I don't want to downplay any of HBG's accomplishments and what is going on there these days, and it will be interesting to see what direction it goes.

EDIT: I also wanted to add a semi-related issue: the cost of living is still a bargain in comparison to some other bigger places close by, but it is FAR from as cheap as it used to be; I am amazed at just how high the prices are there these days. Obviously if you view this with an optimistic lens, this shows the success in the area. But at the same time, HBG is quickly losing one of its strongest competitive points...

[Young Gun]

Hang on cause I'm basically responding to about 6 posts....

The cost of houses in the last year has really gone up. In some areas such as midtown some of the prices have gone up almost 50%. Things move slow in Harrisburg becasue there are still people that remember its bad days. They scruntinize every project cause they think the possibility of failure outweighs that of success.

The success and new money coming into town should go a long way to speed up projects. Now is someone would just building a large towner. I nominate putting it on Alison Hill, buying up the real estate would be a bargin. That neighborhood is starting to feel price increases cause midtown is almost all bought up of cheap houses.

I too have to disagree about Fisaga's I find the food uninspiring and the "feel" of the place is a turn off. Not to mention that the current owner is an idiot. Maybe the new owners will do better. It had been on the market for about $1.5M for approximately a year.

While other's find the city very conservative I've always thought of it as a neutral city wrt politics. Maybe its just my perspective. I know it isn't NYC, but it is much better than the small town I grew up in.

I thought that the idea of a new stadium was a little bit farfetched. The city was going to spend $16M of our money. It says that it has this money set aside. If this is cash on hand why were loans taken out last year? If it is to be borrowed It seems like a poor investment. The new team owners are only going to be paying the city $500k over 29 years, This won't come anywhere close to paying back the city. I love everything Reed has done for the city over the years, but his penchant for funding city development from public coffers sometimes goes a little overboard.

[Evergrey]

I don't understand... I thought Fisaga's felt pretty "urban" and "sophisticated"... especially for a small city like Harrisburg... of course... I was only there once in 2005... the dance floor portion seemed a little thugish/trashy as i recall... but the rest seemed pretty cool... garage door... nice seating/decor... beautiful well-dressed people... didn't try the food...

[PaSkyX]

I understand that perhaps the prices in Harrisburg have gone up, but they're still not "expensive" by any means. To say that would be to insulate yourself to the limitations of central PA. In contrast to a place like NYC, where housing prices have gone through the roof ($1000/mo for a studio on the G train???), Harrisburg is incredibly cheap (as is Philly, for the comparison).

Housing prices aside, the area is still really conservative. Sure, I see some changes when I go home, though not in additudes. It would be great if people became a bit more open-minded, but I'm really not holding my breath.

[Young Gun]

I didn't mean to imply that Harrisburg was expensive. Just that it is loosing the bargin feel. If I was to buy another house it would no longer be just a byline in my monthly budget. It used to be that you could buy a house and your mortage would be around $500-$600 a month for a very nice place imho.


I think in 2005 Fisaga's was still owned by Donnie Brown. He is a good resturanteer. He started many of the successful places on 2nd St. Kokomo's Fisaga's and his latest the Firehouse. He also started Durado's (sp.) on the west shore and in Hershey he just opened up the Fire Alley. He is very particular about the way his establishments are ran.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by PaSkyX

I understand that perhaps the prices in Harrisburg have gone up, but they're still not "expensive" by any means. To say that would be to insulate yourself to the limitations of central PA. In contrast to a place like NYC, where housing prices have gone through the roof ($1000/mo for a studio on the G train???), Harrisburg is incredibly cheap (as is Philly, for the comparison).

And hence why I said:

EDIT: I also wanted to add a semi-related issue: the cost of living is still a bargain in comparison to some other bigger places close by, but it is FAR from as cheap as it used to be; I am amazed at just how high the prices are there these days.

You simply cannot and should not compare HBG to NYC (MAYBE Philly, but I feel that is even a stretch) and it should be compared within itself and to the region. There is a reason why NYC is so expensive and HBG doesn't offer a fraction of what NYC has, so of course it will not be priced the same.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I don't understand... I thought Fisaga's felt pretty "urban" and "sophisticated"... especially for a small city like Harrisburg... of course... I was only there once in 2005... the dance floor portion seemed a little thugish/trashy as i recall... but the rest seemed pretty cool... garage door... nice seating/decor... beautiful well-dressed people... didn't try the food...

Looks wise, it is. But the people, oh, the people...

But I wouldn't expect you to pick up on that, Evergrey, and one would really need to live there to know what type of people frequent the place.

[PaSkyX]

Well, a great question would be - what does NY really have? Ok, so that's really a problem for another thread. I'd really just point out that Harrisburg HAS the potential to be something greater than it is, it just never capitalizes on that. The city's basically a suburban mess (and yes, the city limits are so tiny you really need to factor in the suburbs). I think if the area really tried to build up its mass transit, and worked on attracting young people and foreigners (this is key, they actually go hand and hand), then of course it would be a much better city. Of course, a huge part of the problem (and I feel this goes with a lot of the state as a whole) is that people are happy to leave things the way they are, and actually dislike change. I really wish the city could do things like opening some more bridges up for pedestrian traffic, because the river is probably one of the greatest things about the city.

Oh, and I guess back to prices - I'm not familiar with price increases inside the city limits. I just know that increases in the suburbs have been incredibly tame, to say the least.