CF Pacific Centre Developments

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by nickbeaulieu

Wow, the view from the sidewalk really looks like the building is just all over the place. Sad. I thought this would've been a good looking building.

Glass, Steel grating, beige Marble, fins... good god.

Seems to be the case with many James Cheng designs, trying too hard to represent every architectural trend in a very confined area. IMO not only makes a mess of the overall design but dates very quickly.

[officedweller]

It's a bit weird in that it looks better from a distance.
I like the office level fins because they add a shifting quality, so the building looks different from different angles (as opposed to just a glass-clad box).

When you get up close, there's an absence of detail at grade and just a wall of glass (and future wall of stone), and it's a bit monotonous (because it is, after all, a block long department store with limited entrances).

Hopefully they'll have displays in the windows to add interest (rather than just open views over the retail floor).

[EdinVan]

Why do so many people suddenly dislike the project? When I said months ago that it looked like a Frankenbuilding, you all jumped to defend it. Did anyone think it would actually get better as the construction progressed?

Groupthink 101.

[EdinVan]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Sometimes I really wonder about this forum.

No the TD tower will not be reclad to match this new, separate development. They were never clad in the same material in the first place so I can't imagine what the rationale for that would be. Not to mention TD would not be very pleased if their signature black tower was relcad.

Get off your high horse already.

For the record, the TD towers in Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, and Halifax are not black, and neither is the TD building at Brookfield Place in Toronto. In fact, the TD Tower in Edmonton was reclad... to blue. Clearly, the bank is no longer wedded to black. There was also tremendous controversy when the TD Tower in Vancouver was built because residents thought it was too dark (and many still do). It is a reasonable assumption to make that this tower could be reclad in the future, particularly for those who don't have insider information to the contrary. By the way, if my comments bother you so much, you can ignore them and not respond; I'm sure no love will be lost.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

leave it black! i like it as a black building. it's different from everything else.

yes, this building looks ridiculous. bring back the Eatons cladding and design it was a hell of a lot better then this. they should have gone back to the Eatons design but instead of white stone using glass while keeping the original entrances, etc.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

...bring back the Eatons cladding and design it was a hell of a lot better then this. they should have gone back to the Eatons design but instead of white stone using glass while keeping the original entrances, etc.

Agreed! As stated many times, in it's original form, Eaton's was striking, simple, modernist and pleasing. A simple boxy and monolithic re-glaze would have paid respect to the original design and aged far better.

The gridlines referenced those of the TD Tower and the black glazing matched the tower as well.

The Eaton's / Sears we hated was the result of years of neglect and poorly executed additions and changes.


Photos From : http://departmentstoremuseum.blogspot.ca




Contrast that to the abomination it later became.

Photo From : http://raincityedge.wordpress.com/20...ers-face-lift/

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Agreed! As stated many times, in it's original form, Eaton's was striking, simple, modernist and pleasing. A simple boxy and monolithic re-glaze would have paid respect to the original design and aged far better.

The gridlines referenced those of the TD Tower and the black glazing matched the tower as well.

The Eaton's / Sears we hated was the result of years of neglect and poorly executed additions and changes.

Yup - agreed.

They could have reverted back to the alcove entrances, and backlit the spandrel above them with LEDs.

The box could have been clad in white fritted or patterned glass to give a similar look (see Ryerson's Student Building in Toronto).
Even punching square windows in each terrazzo panel would have worked to convert the upper floors to office space.

Remember that the spandrel was originally backlit. I saw them lighted one night in the dying days of Eaton's,
and the spandrel said "EATONSEATONSEATONS.." in a border along the bottom edge.

Originally Posted by officedweller

...
Pics by me today.

Spandrel panels above one of the alcoves has been removed.
Note the fluorescent tube sockets and ballasts that formerly backlit the spandrel panels.
Major missed opportunity not relighting them in the 1999-ish renovation.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here's the only pic I've ever seen with the spandrel lit up - from 1981:


1981. Eaton's store on Granville at night.
Photograph by: Ralph Bower, Vancouver Sun
http://www.vancouversun.com/business...882/story.html

[nickbeaulieu]

I remember seeing them lit up in person when I was a kid. When I started working downtown years ago I remember thinking "didn't those light up?"

Definitely looked good in its original incarnation, but it would still need an update by now if it had stayed like that.

I still think they should have just demo'ed the whole thing and started from scratch. With a different architect.

[connect2source]

Thanks officedweller and nick...

I think I vaguely recall seeing the spandrel lit up, perhaps in the early 80's but I think it was dark for the last 15 years or so of the original EATON'S.

Like the idea of the punched out windows as well! I wish this building re-do had been taken a bit more seriously, it does represent the centre of our city in so many ways, an architectural competition of some sort would have produced amazing results.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

thanks for posting those photos of the original building. i haven't seen that many and that is really cool with the back lighting. man, the original building did look nice! you know, when it wasn't neglected and butchered.

a design competition would have been a great idea! that building is in such a great location when you think of whats all around there; Law Courts, Robson Square, hotel Georgia, Hotel Vancouver, Shangri-La, Granville street, and Hudson's Bay.

does anyone know if they are adding decorative lighting? or will it just be blank glass walls looking into an empty store?

why does Vancouver almost always end up with crap buildings? is it the developers or the city? i swear every decade literally gets worse and worse when it comes to buildings in the city. there arent all that many getting built that are good-to-decent. there are a few, of course, but not many.

i wonder when the next recladding of this building gets done, will it last a while or get redone in a decade or so. should be interesting to see.

[osirisboy]

The original building did not look nice and am glad its gone. Granted the new one looks busy it's better than big blank walls.

[hankthetank]

Originally Posted by EdinVan

Why do so many people suddenly dislike the project? When I said months ago that it looked like a Frankenbuilding, you all jumped to defend it. Did anyone think it would actually get better as the construction progressed?

Groupthink 101.

Speaking of high horse...

Yes, we should have all listened to world-renown architectural critic EdinVan. Piece of advice: Try to avoid statements like "You all..."

I really like the building. Major improvement over what was there and it feels comfortable and to scale from street level.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by EdinVan

Get off your high horse already.

For the record, the TD towers in Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, and Halifax are not black, and neither is the TD building at Brookfield Place in Toronto. In fact, the TD Tower in Edmonton was reclad... to blue. Clearly, the bank is no longer wedded to black. There was also tremendous controversy when the TD Tower in Vancouver was built because residents thought it was too dark (and many still do). It is a reasonable assumption to make that this tower could be reclad in the future, particularly for those who don't have insider information to the contrary. By the way, if my comments bother you so much, you can ignore them and not respond; I'm sure no love will be lost.

I'm not going to bother with the high horse comment from someone who seems to know better than every architect and developer in town and accuses the rest of the forum of group think. I may get a little exasperated with people's constant criticism of architecture/development in Vancouver, but I in no way consider myself an architectural guru, and have certainly implied so.

Secondly, regarding the black/brown glazing. Weren't you the guy who was just lamenting the use of blue glass at 980 Howe? Shouldn't you be happy the TD Building will not be re-glazed?

And for the record, if you went and asked any TD exec what colour they want their building to be they would say black. They don't always get their way, as you have pointed out, but CF and TD have a very strong relationship, so im sure Cf would like to keep their largest tenant happy. Also, many of the "TD" buildings you have pointed out used to be Canada Trust buildings and their tenancy in such is a legacy of the merger. Look for this to change as leases expire (see Bentall IV).

[trofirhen]

It's a mind-blower, ... after 40 years of bad image and PR, the original Eaton's bulding in white, criticised for it's lack of street-level permeability
and its stark white ceramic look earning it the epithet "the biggest urinal in town" even BEFORE becoming Sears, and the slowly-descending green slime on the roof .... That people are now giving the eclectic (being polite) but reflective replacement The Bronx Rasberry.

Oh, and if you can find that "way we WEREN'T" thread, you'll see the building that was supposed to have gone where the TD Tower is.
It was taller, at 40 storeys, was clad in stone on one side, glass on the other, and had a tall round-doored passageway going through it with tall, rounded, stone passageway doors
that made the whole thing super elegant.
If you don't trust me, ask Klazu. He referred to it as his "favourite unbuilt building" or such. It would beat what is there now hands down, IMO. Again, ifit's all right, may I suggest asking Klazu ? He will find it if you as him, I'm sure. I could not.

@Klazu: Ursäkta mig för att ror hänvisar till dig utan tillstånd från din sida, men jag vet att du kunde hitta det kontoret torndesign som du (och jag) älskar, medan jag inte kunde hitta styrelserna stolpen. Tack så mycket.
(Google-översättning)

[spm2013]

...

[trofirhen]

I think this building would have been waaaaay classier than that black glass, be they Cesar Pelli-designed or not.
The adjoining Eaton"s seems to be made of stone, too, and the buildings across Georgia street are not the stubby black IBM, but would probably have turned out much like what is there now, maybe even with the Four Seasons.
This building is tall and classy, and would have become one of the city's true signature towers, in the perfect location ...... IMO.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by spm2013

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=210691

Credit: Klazu

we lost out on that?!?! how?!?! who made that decision?!?!?!?! that unbuilt building is gorgeous! it reminds me of something you would see built in LA. the light stone, shrubbery on the roof, arch way and all.

whats that building next to it? i don't recognize it, but it is pretty nice looking to.

[MIPS]

Wasn't the British Columbia Center (the tower that was to be built on Robson Square and the law courts) canned because people objected to the shadow it would cast?

[spm2013]

...

[officedweller]

Apparently the Four Seasons was also originally slated to be a dark tower too but changed due to the outcry, and the Stock Exchange Tower was to be occupied by BC Tel, but they decided to build the Boot instead (and the Stock Exchange Tower was shortened in height).