Philadelphia Transportation Thread

[202_Cyclist]

Proposed Glassboro-Camden light rail line enters preliminary design phase
The South Jersey transit project would add 14 new train stations to an 18-mile stretch of an existing Conrail line

By Michael Tanenbaum
Philly Voice
Oct. 31, 2022


Image courtesy of the Philly Voice.

"Plans to bring a new light rail route along an 18-mile stretch of South Jersey, from Glassboro to Camden, took another step forward last week with the selection of two firms that will handle project management and preliminary design work.

The Glassboro-Camden light rail project was first envisioned in 2005 as a transportation initiative to extend the Philadelphia-Camden metro area. Its proponents have long argued that a lack of fixed-rail transit in South Jersey has held the region back, particularly as Gloucester County is poised for population and job growth in the next few decades.

Backed by the Delaware River Port Authority, PATCO and NJ Transit, the GCL calls for 14 new stations along an existing Conrail line using diesel, light-rail trains. The new line, similar to the River Line between Camden and Trenton, would enable riders to transfer to the PATCO Speedline for access to Philadelphia and other parts of Camden County..."

https://www.phillyvoice.com/glassboro-camden-light-rail-design-train-new-jersey-aecom/

[Busy Bee]

Why isnt this a PATCO line again?

[Mr13thstreetwiz]

Should the Roosevelt Blvd line be light rail or light metro instead of heavy rail if the concentration of people in NE Philly is lower than the areas that the 2 subway lines go through? Instead of being underground they can run it in the median of Roosevelt Blvd.

[Busy Bee]

Not rocket science. Do not over think. Do not reinvent wheel. Heavy rail subway or trench is the proper mode and method for Roosevelt Blvd. End of story. But hey lets do another study shall we?

[TonyTone]

Plan and simple the Patco lines should be absorbed into septa, and the Roosevelt Subway should either be Elevated or Subway, they need to make their mind up and just do it, like others have echoed we love to study ourself to death with these decisions, study for new light bulbs, study for a traffic cone, study for which breed of dog to get, just do that shit city of PHILADELPHIA.

[Busy Bee]

If Roosevelt Blvd isn't an ideal candidate for either a traditionally constructed cut-and-cover subway or a trenched alignment I don't know what is. Please no unsightly elevated structure ruining the aesthetics of the Blvd and serving as a psychological barrier. If we can't build a subway here, we can't build a subway anywhere.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

If Roosevelt Blvd isn't an ideal candidate for either a traditionally constructed cut-and-cover subway or a trenched alignment I don't know what is. Please no unsightly elevated structure ruining the aesthetics of the Blvd and serving as a psychological barrier. If we can't build a subway here, we can't build a subway anywhere.

I don't think an elevated line in the middle of Roosevelt will cause the same issues as we see in Kensington, doesn't New York have multiple Elevated lines and there's no issues like we experience in Philadelphia.

Also the original plan for Roosevelt Blvd was An elevated line and Trolleys on the outer lanes, so this would still match up with that.

[Busy Bee]

^ A subway will always be a better choice when the option is available. Its a somewhat difficult thing to convey, but having all that infrastructure underground will not just look better but longer term will also likely be a better investment as an elevated structure will have structural degradation and maintenance costs that a properly constructed subway would not.

[Delthayre]

The 2003 proposal, alternative C-Prime, was to be mostly in an open trench to Blue Grass Road, then elevated to Southampton Road. I think that the current proposal is agnostic as far as the kind of grade separation. The proposals made by the Department of City Transit from 1912 to 1923 were for an entirely elevated line, which I believe met with some protest. I believe that later proposals were for mixed subway and elevated lines.

I prefer a heavy rail line of some kind to provide long-term potential capacity and to use the considerable surplus capacity available on the mainline, particularly the express tracks. The half-measures of a bus rapid transit or light rail transit line would require a transfer and presumably longer trip times as well as some susceptibility to traffic at intersections, which would impair its utility, thus suppress ridership.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

^ A subway will always be a better choice when the option is available. Its a somewhat difficult thing to convey, but having all that infrastructure underground will not just look better but longer term will also likely be a better investment as an elevated structure will have structural degradation and maintenance costs that a properly constructed subway would not.

I 1000% agree with you. I would say tunnel the MFL all the way through as well, and open the Art Museum line but we don't have that type of budget in the city, and have to look at this stuff in a more realistic way.

If the Roosevelt line can be built but only elevated well, we have to take what we can get and accept it as a W, It's still gonna move the same amount of people, and push the future forward in terms of transportation and NE Philly.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I don't think an elevated line in the middle of Roosevelt will cause the same issues as we see in Kensington, doesn't New York have multiple Elevated lines and there's no issues like we experience in Philadelphia.

What issues with the el in Kensington do you mean?
Also, one thing that they should try to do if they can, is to get funding for the Roosevelt Boulevard subway combined with the Broad Street subway extension into the Navy Yard into one package. That extension is a rounding error compared with the RBL, so why not tack it on.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I 1000% agree with you. I would say tunnel the MFL all the way through as well, and open the Art Museum line but we don't have that type of budget in the city, and have to look at this stuff in a more realistic way.

If the Roosevelt line can be built but only elevated well, we have to take what we can get and accept it as a W, It's still gonna move the same amount of people, and push the future forward in terms of transportation and NE Philly.

The Art Museum/BF Parkway line was never a line unto itself, it was part of a line that would go to Roxborough. I would say focus on the RBL first.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

What issues with the el in Kensington do you mean?
Also, one thing that they should try to do if they can, is to get funding for the Roosevelt Boulevard subway combined with the Broad Street subway extension into the Navy Yard into one package. That extension is a rounding error compared with the RBL, so why not tack it on.

People seem to think that elevated lines will have the same ills as we are seeing with Kensington and the homeless population camping under it, which in our case of the City of Philadelphia is an anomaly, in fact from our 2023 Budget report Philadelphia have one of the smaller Homeless populations in the US.

So that's what I brought that up.

And yes I know the BF Line was an old freight line, its just the fact that we have good infrastructure just wasting away, and the reason for that is lack of funding.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

People seem to think that elevated lines will have the same ills as we are seeing with Kensington and the homeless population camping under it, which in our case of the City of Philadelphia is an anomaly, in fact from our 2023 Budget report Philadelphia have one of the smaller Homeless populations in the US.

So that's what I brought that up.

And yes I know the BF Line was an old freight line, its just the fact that we have good infrastructure just wasting away, and the reason for that is lack of funding.

I wasn't even talking about the existing tunnel that's near the parkway that they used to use to transport giant rolls of paper for the Inquirer. There actually was a proposed subway line under the parkway itself that would have continued up 25th street then up Henry Ave. There would have been a station at the museum of course. they discovered some of the plans for that station when they did the expansion that Gehry designed.

[TonyTone]

Can MBTA learn lessons from Philadelphia's transit system? 5 Investigates

https://www.wcvb.com/article/mbta-transi...ta-philadelphia-5-investigates/41859487#

PHILADELPHIA —
It's a sports-crazed city in the Northeast, home to universities and rich with history. And they have really old transit systems.

The similarities between Boston's and Philadelphia's public transit ends, though with their age.

The MBTA's delays and safety failures have drawn the attention of federal regulators, who have demanded reforms. SEPTA, which operates in the greater Philadelphia area, is by no measure perfect, but operates largely free from the systemic safety and reliability issues plaguing the T.

Just ask the people who ride it.

"It's reliable."

"Just able to get everywhere in the city is really great."

"How would you grade it in terms of reliability?" we asked.

[EastSideHBG]

Opinion: SEPTA’s bus redesign leaves residents of Manayunk and Roxborough behind

https://whyy.org/articles/philadelphia-septa-bus-redesign-hurts-residents-in-manayunk-roxborough/

[EastSideHBG]

SEPTA considers on-demand microtransit system in Bucks County that could replace some bus routes

https://www.buckscountycouriertimes.com/...montgomery-on-demand-routes/69660182007/

[TonyTone]

SEPTA turns to artificial intelligence to scan passengers for potential shooters



https://whyy.org/articles/septa-artificial-intelligence-scan-guns-zero-eyes/

New high tech artificial intelligence software is being added to SEPTA’s camera system as part of an effort to make the city’s mass transit more secure.
The system is called Zero Eyes. Acting SEPTA police chief Charles Lawson believes it could help give officers critical seconds to help when a shooter draws a weapon.
“So a human being will receive the alert and verify whether or not it is an actual gun,” Lawson said. “That all takes place before we’re even notified. So it happens seamlessly within a matter of seconds. So once they verify it, we get notified. We’re dispatching police to wherever that gun was brandished.”
The alert will only go out if a gun is taken out in public; the system cannot see a concealed weapon.

“It would not alert on a weapon that’s holstered,” he said. “We don’t want it alerting law enforcement all day long. This is a gun on display in someone’s hand, lying alone on the floor, or being dropped. That’s that’s what it’s designed to do.”
The pilot program is expected to begin in January using about 300 of SEPTA’s 30,000 cameras. If it’s deemed successful, the software will be expanded to the entire network of security cameras.

[Busy Bee]

^ So there's a headline you'd never read in any other rich developed country.

[Randomguy34]

^^ I can imagine this going wrong real quickly