Hamilton's B-Line LRT construction

[Corktowner]

I just have a sinking feeling that this is never going to get built. I can see it languishing in RFP purgatory for a while, then Poilievre gets elected and he and Ford cancel it to spite NDP Hamilton. I hope I'm wrong.

[Innsertnamehere]

there is no federal funding involved here from what I recall, so it's solely in Ford's court.

[PaperSun]

Wasn't the MOU signed legally binding ?

[mikevbar1]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

there is no federal funding involved here from what I recall, so it's solely in Ford's court.

What? What happened to the ~$1 Billion the Feds contributed? I know that Isn't enough for the whole thing, but surely it hasn't disappeared.

Also, speaking of the Engineering design, I have wondered how they plan on navigating underneath the pedestrian link from Jackson Square's rooftop injection site 'public space' to the AGH. Is there enough clearance for pantographs/overhead wires?

There is no doubt in my mind this project has been deliberately dragged through the mud for politics. It certainly does not look good when it is shown on IO Updates in the same section as Sheppard East. The Ontario Line was announced, procured and began construction in the same time it took for our LRT to be 'revived'. With Horwath as mayor... our LRT has gotten to sleep in, not just take a nap

[Corktowner]

The project is jointly funded by the province and the feds, $1.7B each. The MOU doesn’t guarantee anything. The city of Hamilton isn’t contributing any money and thus has no leverage, and in any case cities are purely creatures of the province. If the provincial and federal governments jointly decide to withdraw their funding, the project is dead. Right now that’s unlikely to happen, but a change of government could change everything. And I think there’s a very high likelihood of a federal election before a contract is signed.

[Innsertnamehere]

Apologies - yes, I misrecalled.

The Feds don’t have a history of pulling out of local infrastructure projects like this so I would be surprised personally. The province is really in the drivers seat here and I don’t see them changing course.

This is happening. Just takes a bit of time, that’s all.

I definitely understand the cynicism at this point though.

[Corktowner]

It’s true that the feds don’t have a history of pulling out of local infrastructure projects, but the feds also don’t have a history of being Pierre Poilievre! That’s the wild card.

I agree it’s more likely than not it’ll get built, but I don’t think it’s the done deal that some people assume it is. I wouldn’t bet more than five dollars either way.

[mikevbar1]

I’m not particularly worried about a future conservative federal government necessarily. The money has been committed, I can’t see any party backtracking on something like this, being infrastructure and all- it’s not really a costly “frill” at the federal level compared to say, HFR. I’ve been more worried about the province dragging its feet, letting cost estimates rise and then say that the available funds are no longer enough. We have seen this on other projects, but if things are moving as people are suggesting, then I can rest assured. I suppose a lot of this game was already played 3 years ago when it was cancelled, so no point for Doug to try it again.

[Corktowner]

Yep. Rising costs are another way this could get derailed (sorry for the pun). It’s been nearly two years since the province and feds reached a funding agreement and since then construction costs have gone up dramatically across the board.

[TheHonestMaple]

RMTransit on Youtube posted a new video today about the Finch West LRT. Included a tour of the maintenance yard. I think it's a fair guess that the Hamilton LRT will be a clone of the Finch West line.

[mikevbar1]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

RMTransit on Youtube posted a new video today about the Finch West LRT. Included a tour of the maintenance yard. I think it's a fair guess that the Hamilton LRT will be a clone of the Finch West line.

Fine by me. The Finch LRT has been built fast and with little disruptions compared to Eglinton. Alongside Hurontario, Finch proves that we can build LRT fast, and there is mounting internal expertise brewing across the region to do it.

Also, our LRT appeared in the provincial budget this year. In what feels like a long time, it is no longer relegated to a background project like Sheppard East, and is shown as something more firm and "happening" as Metrolinx might put it. I could foresee serious construction work beginning when Finch (and/or Eglinton) is done with those freed up contractors.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by mikevbar1

Fine by me. The Finch LRT has been built fast and with little disruptions compared to Eglinton. Alongside Hurontario, Finch proves that we can build LRT fast, and there is mounting internal expertise brewing across the region to do it.

Also, our LRT appeared in the provincial budget this year. In what feels like a long time, it is no longer relegated to a background project like Sheppard East, and is shown as something more firm and "happening" as Metrolinx might put it. I could foresee serious construction work beginning when Finch (and/or Eglinton) is done with those freed up contractors.

That timeline would make sense, because the Finch LRT is going to be complete sometime this year.

I still wish we could get some more info on the Hamilton LRT, just crickets the past year. I thought they were supposed to open a public office at the Royal Connaught. Haven't heard or seen anything related to that lately.

Anyone know when the next LRT Sub committee meeting will be? They haven't had one since July 2022.

[Innsertnamehere]

The updated design is apparently being presented to council on May 26.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The updated design is apparently being presented to council on May 26.

I didn't even know the design contract had gone out for tender?

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I didn't even know the design contract had gone out for tender?

The LRT Sub-Committee is actually meeting on March 31:

https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings...a&lang=English

The Agenda has a report on an update on the LRT, which says this:

May 26, 2023 – Design Update

The Environmental Project Report (EPR) addendum, including the corridor concept design, was approved by the Minister of Environment and Climate Change in 2017. Subsequent updates on design refinements were provided to Council through various staff reports: Hamilton Light Rail Transit (LRT) Project Update (PED18116) received by Council on May 31, 2018, Hamilton Light Rail Transit (LRT) Project Update (PED19100) received by Council on May 15, 2019, and Hamilton Light Rail Transit (LRT) Project Update and Other Metrolinx Initiatives (PED19100(a)) received by Council on December 4, 2019.

Further design updates were provided for the entire corridor to the LRT Sub-Committee through Hamilton Light Rail Transit (LRT) Design Update (PED22118) received by the LRT Sub-Committee on May 16, 2022, and Hamilton Light Rail Transit (LRT) Design Update (PED22118(a)) received by LRT Sub-Committee on July 18, 2022. The May 16, 2022 report to the LRT Sub-Committee included key themes City staff would be exploring with Metrolinx to update the design. The themes included Pedestrian Environment, Cycling Facility and Connectivity, Transit Connectivity, Infrastructure Opportunities, Streetscape Elements and Traffic Network. Refinements to the designare being explored to ensure it continues to reflect the goals and needs of the City contemplated in various City-wide guiding documents such as the Vision Zero Plan, Complete Street Guidelines, City’s Transportation Master Plan, and Truck Route Master Plan. Since the report, City staff have met with Metrolinx and their consultant in a series of technical design workshops to evaluate opportunities to refine the design.

Staff expect to provide a further design update, including some of the design refinements arising from a review of the key themes described above, at the May 26, 2023 LRT Sub-Committee meeting.

[TheHonestMaple]

Good to know. Sounds like we're going to be getting quite a bit of info pretty soon.

[King&James]

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6787225

Interesting article on Mississauga and height limits around transit hubs. Wondering aloud if Hamilton is a lower tier city as well, and whether that means that height cannot be controlled by City.

[spaghettisam]

Mississauga is a lower tier muni in a two-tier municipality… it’s part of the region of Peel…

Hamilton isn’t a two tier municipality

[King&James]

Originally Posted by spaghettisam

Mississauga is a lower tier muni in a two-tier municipality… it’s part of the region of Peel…

Hamilton isn’t a two tier municipality

Thanks, wasn't getting the reference. So then Peel can control height, as would Hamilton? Just curious if Toronto and now Ottawa have higher level decision making capabilities as part of recent super mayor legislation.

[Innsertnamehere]

Hamilton has full discretion for height limits, generally speaking. We all know about the 30-storey limit downtown.

Hamilton did try to implement a 30-storey limit city-wide recently, which the Ministry struck down.

Regardless, Regional Official Plans are disappearing in the next few months with the changes the province has made.