Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[s211]

Only four people shooting up along the sidewalk during my walk to work this morning through the CBD. Four too many, still.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by a very long weekend

^ I mean, if doing all of that stuff costs less than prison, then it's probably a good idea.

The problem as you alluded to it isn't cheaper than prison and nobody's going to push money towards changing that because it implies a tax hike.
Likewise prison is to them just status quo on its own with news headlines all over the province pertaining to captured criminals who are "known to police" basically getting busted again and again and well, there's really nothing to do but lock them away again at the expense of taxpayers, court availability and resources.

"Oh no, you caught me stealing cars again. Guess I'll plead guilty and spend another six months in a place with a warm bed, three meals a day, clean clothes and a supply of crack should I have an addictions problem".
There exists a universal system to incarcerate but noting within that system that drives the point home that they need to stop doing this. There is no further level of punishment.

[a very long weekend]

Create giant inpatient care facilities somewhere in the far north, like California has Coalinga. Basically, incarcerate these folks indefinitely until they're ready to be released. Change the law to sideline the courts, and use the notwithstanding clause if necessary.

Could be a great boon to some town up there - transfer the hospital/police/jail guard/psychiatric/homeless industry man hours to where those jobs would be greatly appreciated.

[SpongeG]

I wonder how the closure of the Army & Navy store will affect the area. It's a tough space to fill as retail. That said the building itself would make a nice flagship Uniqlo but the location is a no.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I wonder how the closure of the Army & Navy store will affect the area. It's a tough space to fill as retail. That said the building itself would make a nice flagship Uniqlo but the location is a no.

Logically, that store is a redevelopment candidate. There's only a heritage façade on Cordova - it's a more modern frame behind it. There's a badly mistreated building 50 feet wide on Hastings that could (and should) be a facade retention, but the other 75 feet of frontage that was once the Rex Theatre has nothing old or interesting remaining.

[SeymourDrake]

Does anyone know how long the Hotel leases are for the Homeless Covid-19 program?

[teriyaki]

Maybe its the COVID so people are avoiding the streets, but I took a walk downtown for the first time in a long time but the ratio of vagrants is shockingly high. Add in garbage, blankets, and various PPE just strung about all over the sidewalks. I don't remember Vancouver being this bad...

[s211]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

Maybe its the COVID so people are avoiding the streets, but I took a walk downtown for the first time in a long time but the ratio of vagrants is shockingly high. Add in garbage, blankets, and various PPE just strung about all over the sidewalks. I don't remember Vancouver being this bad...

I walked around the International Village area yesterday, and wow that area has gone from ok-ish at best to a total poopshow. I felt so bad for women in the area. There were a number getting hassled walking down the street and they looked absolutely berated and terrified. People shooting up and passed out all over the place, whacked out guys gyrating and being aggressive with pedestrians. I had the chance to buy a condo in that area around ten years ago and wow am I glad I didn't.

[s211]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I wonder how the closure of the Army & Navy store will affect the area.

It won't be good. The closure of Woodwards back in the day was like a stab in the heart in that area and the surrounding streets turned into the unhappiest place on earth. It never recovered, no matter how many Westbank fanboys will try to convince otherwise.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by SeymourDrake

DTES Drug and Homeless Issues

I think most of you forget that sure with some extremely hard work and professional guidance you can get a junkie clean. But what are they going to do with their permanent damage and the entire reason they do drugs to begin with?

Getting a clean source of drugs will save lives and every life matters. It's not like they are giving them a lethal dose and they aren't monitored. People are in poor health, mentally, physical & slowly waiting to die. So by helping them manage their source of drugs it's a step in the right direction.

I've said it before... Make it illegal to be homeless, Illegal to not have an address, Illegal to sleep on the streets. Make it a Multi-Step Program.

1. Identify
2. Diagnose Mental and Physical Health.
3. Get sent to treatment, then after Care.
4. Assign Doctors for After care which will cover mental & physical health.
5. Find permanent supervised housing.
6. Send each patient to the proper Housing Facility to focus on their specific needs. Follow ups by assigned medical team.

Those who have gone through the process and end up back on the street should be sent to a Mental Facility. Make the stay unlimited but make sure it isn't being abused by healthcare professionals.

I know we all have different ideas for what needs to be done. But no matter what tax bracket you're in, we all deserve to be treated like human beings and to help each other any way we can.

This is an approach people should be able to get behind. If were going to be raising property taxes at 7% a year, this is how I want my money to be spent.

Get rid of 17 social media staffers, trim some fat at City Hall, eliminate a few non critical programs, and divert 5 years worth of resources to get this up and running.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by a very long weekend

^ I mean, if doing all of that stuff costs less than prison, then it's probably a good idea. Give them drugs, let them sit in some room in Kamloops or the Yukon, stoned out of their mind for the rest of their lives, if that's what the homeless industry has decided is the PC way to deal with this stuff.

But you're just one junkie chasing a tourist down the street and murdering her with a syringe away from permanently losing the public on this mollycoddling approach. The status quo won't last much longer. Every single additional new resident is a vote against it. Have to do something.

Its a valuable perspective to speak to someone who has just moved here - people are in shock at the state of things, and genuinely confused as to why we don't fix things.

I too worry of the "Trump effect." Leadership continues to ignore the more nuanced of residents asking for meaningful positive changes over the years in favor of maintaining status quo and poverty as a business.

As you say, all it will take is one well publicized event like that and people will go for the pitchfork option skipping past the myriad of options leadership is unwilling to try. At that stage you'll have the usual outrage and comments of "who could have seen it coming," while completely ignoring the reality over the past decade.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by a very long weekend

Create giant inpatient care facilities somewhere in the far north, like California has Coalinga. Basically, incarcerate these folks indefinitely until they're ready to be released. Change the law to sideline the courts, and use the notwithstanding clause if necessary.

Could be a great boon to some town up there - transfer the hospital/police/jail guard/psychiatric/homeless industry man hours to where those jobs would be greatly appreciated.

And more of this.

The usual meme in Vancouver is that " youre not entitled to a SFH on the West Side," when people complain about housing costs.

That's a knife that cuts both ways.

How the hell are we spending money on housing people in Olympic Village, Downtown, Kits, and all the premium areas of town? Its an indefensible strategy.

I have worked my ass off, and so have thousands of others, for the privilege to remain close to the core. To assume that these shelters or housing are just going to be built on the most expensive land literally in Canada is the most preposterous idea ever.

Build a town up north with a massive, cost effective treatment and care facility. Each dollar will go 4 times the distance or more, and the billion+ spent on the facility and operation of it would be a huge boom to some smaller northern towns.

If someone genuinely recovers and has a semblance of common sense about them, then please, come on back and live your life as you please.

I don't understand how we can simultaneously say these people are sick and need help, but then when its suggested that some decisions be made for them, because there not in the correct state of mind all hell breaks loose.

The two cant be true at the same time. Either you're accountable for your actions as any of us are, or you're not because of mental illness, addiction, etc. And if you're not accountable for your actions because of X amount of factors than you forfeit your freedoms until such a time as you can be held responsible for yourself.

How did we lose perspective of this? Its so frustrating living here, and seeing with my own eyes the ever increasing pain, suffering and urban decay, only to have people continually defend status quo.

[MIPS]

Crab Park is still stupid.

The homeless camp, which has grown to about 60 tents over the past few weeks, is in a parking lot owned by the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority.

It sprang up in May after the B.C. government began to transfer campers at Oppenheimer Park in the Downtown Eastside into temporary housing to slow the spread of the coronavirus.

The port filed a notice of civil claim in B.C. Supreme Court last month, naming camp organizer and homeless rights’ activist Chrissy Brett.

Lawyer Amandeep Singh, who is set to represent the campers, said he plans to argue that it’s safer for the group to seek shelter in the parking lot than to move around during the pandemic.

“Encampments have been shown to be safe,” Singh said.

- https://globalnews.ca/news/7023150/c...ss-camp-fight/

“Encampments have been shown to be safe”

How much money are they paying this guy??

These are people who dodged being put into proper housing, even temporary, just because they have some personal grudges against the system. Likewise the system is too touchy-feely, so if someone is clearly not in the right state of mind we can't force them into treatment or housing. We just end up with mobile slums and frustrated property owners who can only dream of shipping them off and compacting everything in a dumpster because heavens if you told them to take a hike. This isn't NIMBY for the sake of we don't want it here. These are people who get a free pass on almost all the rules because they can.

Example given: The rundown RV's under the terminal avenue viaduct with belongings spreading out on the curb and tents/fences along the grass, like the one that was there for months until it went up in flames last week. Go look yourself. One guy straight-up has a truck camper sitting on the road. City bylaws and police can't have phantom exceptions to things which would put any of us in hot water.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Crab Park is still stupid.



How much money are they paying this guy??

These are people who dodged being put into proper housing, even temporary, just because they have some personal grudges against the system. Likewise the system is too touchy-feely, so if someone is clearly not in the right state of mind we can't force them into treatment or housing. We just end up with mobile slums and frustrated property owners who can only dream of shipping them off and compacting everything in a dumpster because heavens if you told them to take a hike. This isn't NIMBY for the sake of we don't want it here. These are people who get a free pass on almost all the rules because they can.

Example given: The rundown RV's under the terminal avenue viaduct with belongings spreading out on the curb and tents/fences along the grass, like the one that was there for months until it went up in flames last week. Go look yourself. One guy straight-up has a truck camper sitting on the road. City bylaws and police can't have phantom exceptions to things which would put any of us in hot water.

Exactly.

If someone wants to argue that these people need exemptions because of mental health, addiction, or else, then you are admitting by default they are incapable of following basic rules and therefore are essentially volunteering to have decisions made for them.

You cant claim right state of mind, while flaunting laws and rules. That just means you should be punished like everyone else.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by s211

I walked around the International Village area yesterday, and wow that area has gone from ok-ish at best to a total poopshow. I felt so bad for women in the area. There were a number getting hassled walking down the street and they looked absolutely berated and terrified. People shooting up and passed out all over the place, whacked out guys gyrating and being aggressive with pedestrians. I had the chance to buy a condo in that area around ten years ago and wow am I glad I didn't.

And you are just describing the best part of the day.

Our lousy City decision makers caused all these, and much, much more.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by a very long weekend

Create giant inpatient care facilities somewhere in the far north, like California has Coalinga. Basically, incarcerate these folks indefinitely until they're ready to be released. Change the law to sideline the courts, and use the notwithstanding clause if necessary.

Could be a great boon to some town up there - transfer the hospital/police/jail guard/psychiatric/homeless industry man hours to where those jobs would be greatly appreciated.

Won't make a dent if we can't make an injunction to forcibly send people away for treatment. Just see how we can't even isolate people in the downtown hotels and community centres during the pandemic despite the offer of daily meals and free drugs, so how can we send people far up north for treatment?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I wonder how the closure of the Army & Navy store will affect the area. It's a tough space to fill as retail. That said the building itself would make a nice flagship Uniqlo but the location is a no.

It's already highly ghetto even when A&N was around. So the building is just going to be boarded up and rot like all the neighbouring buildings.

Uniglo there? My God, I don't think this retail giant is suicidal.

[SeymourDrake]

Lots of opinions but no solutions.

i'm ashamed of some of the comments posted by some of you. We're dealing with human beings who would rather sleep on the street than have a roof over their heads.

None of us know their stories, what their lives have been like. So, judging them based on the fact they have made a choice to live on the street is short sighted.

They need to be evaluated and legally placed into custody for the best possible treatment. Not shipped off to Northern BC so they can be out of sight out of mind.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by SeymourDrake

Lots of opinions but no solutions.

i'm ashamed of some of the comments posted by some of you. We're dealing with human beings who would rather sleep on the street than have a roof over their heads.

None of us know their stories, what their lives have been like. So, judging them based on the fact they have made a choice to live on the street is short sighted.

They need to be evaluated and legally placed into custody for the best possible treatment. Not shipped off to Northern BC so they can be out of sight out of mind.

Building more social housing doesn't work. As soon as housing is found for the latest round of squatters in the park, a new round of squatters takes their place. It's a never ending cycle, as Vancouver and Victoria are seen as destination cities for homeless people from across the country. The fair thing to do, if you want to live a homeless lifestyle, is to send them back to the city they came from, or go to a facility.

[Vancouver_Highrise]

@vin the term “ghetto” is highly offensive and a really outdated term.