Corktown Plaza Redevelopment | 91m | 27 & 14 fl | Cancelled

[TheHonestMaple]

Easy. Someone not from Hamilton made that advertisement and did zero research.

[Markus83]

It was my pharmacist who told me about the month of March. Also, not the right thread, however from speaking to two business' inside the old Etan's Centre( I believe that is the incorrect spelling), that their leases are done in September as the development there will begin demolition shortly after that. I suppose these could be classified as rumours.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Units are cozy enough and the walking distance is about right, but the driving proximity is somewhat exaggerated. To make it from John & Young to the 403 in 2 minutes you would need empty streets and a green wave keyed to 80km/h traffic. (It's a two-minute drive to the McMaster Downtown Centre, for example, but why even tout that as a different, drivable destination than the Hamilton GO Centre given that they're basically a block apart?)

That's what I thought too. Maybe they've just heavily rounded down.

I also found the reference to Mac a bit misleading in that the "downtown centre" is on a separate line so at a quick glance it looks like this is SO CLOSE to McMaster... well, yeah, a small part of it.

[SteelTown]

Developer set to break ground on Corktown condos highrises in 2023
Slate Asset Management says sales for some 700 units will begin this summer

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...aza-condo.html

A developer says plans are underway to replace a downtown strip plaza with a sleek 700-unit residential complex that includes retail offerings.

Slate Asset Management will begin sales for the two-building complex — one a 27-storey highrise, the other a 14-storey mid-rise — at the Corktown Plaza as late as this fall. Ground is expected to be broken in the summer of 2023.

It marks the Toronto developer’s first foray into the Hamilton market and comes four years after they first pitched the project to council in 2018.

“The project’s fully zoned and approved and ready to go,” said Brandon Donnelly, managing director of development at Slate. “We look for sites that are in urban, walkable neighbourhoods that have amenities and are (near) transit, and this site checks those boxes for us.”

The complex on John Street South will have a unique look, with the “boutique scale” mid-rise wrapping around the towering, “slender point” highrise, said Donnelly. A rooftop terrace will overlook Lake Ontario and the escarpment, while indoor units — ranging from studios to two-bedrooms — will mesh with a fitness centre, social lounges, coworking spaces and an outdoor pool. A courtyard will separate the two buildings with retailers on the ground floor facing John Street.


Donnelly said the development will pay respect to the area’s past, with lead architects planning to incorporate the same style of bricks found on nearby buildings.

“We want to make sure it’s rooted in the area and something that belongs, but also taking that and doing a modern interpretation of it.”

Local residents have expressed concern over the project, fearing it would leave them without accessible food options like the Hasty Market currently in the plaza.

Donnelly said the development is expected to have a wide array of retail offerings for locals, including a possible “micro-grocer,” he added.

Downtown Coun. Jason Farr said Slate went “above and beyond” to engage residents and “really listened” to concerns over food security for people in the area.

“We did a couple of charettes where the community sat down and talked about how they’d like the development to look and what they want from it, and it went fabulously well,” he said. “It would be great if we could that with every large development.”

[TheRitsman]

I really wish that instead of amenity gyms, they had commercial spaces large enough for a gym m with GoodLife and Crunch closing, there isn't an affordable gym downtown. This would be a perfect spot, but instead tenants will get a mediocre gym, and those who need a gym but don't live in a condo/rental building have no options.

Glad to see this getting started though. Will change Corktown a lot and likely for the better. A strip mall was never a good idea there. Really wish there was more commercial space though.

[TheHonestMaple]

Micro-grocer..... I really hope Rabba doesn't decide to set up shop. There used to be one in my old Toronto apartment. Such a rip off. I'm really hoping we get a Sobeys express or something like that. Expensive still, but at least not Rabba.

[craftbeerdad]

If our hurdle is Hasty Market for food security and decent, we already have an issue. There's smaller Loblaws owned micro grocers as well, but I'd really love to have seen a medium to large size grocery store (no smaller than the No Frills on Main seemed easy enough) as there's no decent sized grocery stores in the lower city (while Nations is unique, it does not fit this criteria). Heck even Fortinos on Dundurn is considerably smaller than the Burlington/Ikea plaza store.

[TheHonestMaple]

The city should have made it a requirement that a grocery store of X sq metres is required, as part of their zoning application...

[King&James]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

The city should have made it a requirement that a grocery store of X sq metres is required, as part of their zoning application...

Build it and they will come... I don't think any developer would go for that level of restriction. Also I have such little faith that any municipality could actually get under the hood on store economics that they would be willing to defend their requirements.

[davidcappi]

They can build a space intended for a grocer but nobody, the developer nor the city can force a grocery retailer to open here.

I think it's likely you'll see interest in the next 5-10 years once a few more projects are complete and occupied. Because the rent on downtown commercial spaces of that size is higher than in the suburbs, a grocer is going to want to know they'll have busy foot traffic from day 1.

I will say that a lack of grocery options was a huge reason I moved out of downtown. Nations just didn't have everything I needed and Dundurn wasn't walkable at all. The only other option was food basics on barton, which as a former durand resident wasn't exactly easy to access either unless you were driving.

[TheHonestMaple]

A grocery store in Corktown would absolutely be busy on day 1. 7500 people currently live in Corktown. Another 12,000 in Durand. There's no grocery store in either of those neighbourhoods, other than variety stores.

[davidcappi]

Yeah I'm aware of the populations in both neighbourhoods - regardless, that data is available to retailers and they've clearly looked at it and said it's not enough to justify the costs of a downtown store. I'm not sure what the threshold is but downtown just isn't there yet.

Fortinos Dundurn and Food Basics on Barton probably do pretty good numbers right now, so I'm not sure why Loblaws or Metro Inc would want to open up another store that would ultimately cut into the performance of those existing stores. That leaves Empire - their urban fresh stores are kind of a rarity with Fresh-co being the more common urban brand here in Toronto however we are seeing many urban format Farm Boy locations opening. There's always a chance an independent like Marche Leos, Rabba, or Vincenzo's opens up but they're not exactly budget friendly.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by davidcappi

Yeah I'm aware of the populations in both neighbourhoods - regardless, that data is available to retailers and they've clearly looked at it and said it's not enough to justify the costs of a downtown store. I'm not sure what the threshold is but downtown just isn't there yet.

Fortinos Dundurn and Food Basics on Barton probably do pretty good numbers right now, so I'm not sure why Loblaws or Metro Inc would want to open up another store that would ultimately cut into the performance of those existing stores. That leaves Empire - their urban fresh stores are kind of a rarity with Fresh-co being the more common urban brand here in Toronto however we are seeing many urban format Farm Boy locations opening. There's always a chance an independent like Marche Leos, Rabba, or Vincenzo's opens up but they're not exactly budget friendly.

I'm surprised a competitor (Sobey's, Longo's, or other) wouldn't want to come in and cut into the market. Like I said, nearly 20k residents are forced to go to the Fortinos at Dundurn or up the mountain. They could shop right in their own neighbourhood.

I'd be curious if these competitors have actually done the research and abandoned the idea, or it's an issue of no space.

[catcher_of_cats]

For grocers, opening a store anywhere in the lower city is not about population but about purchasing power. When that increases with all the new development, a new grocer will appear.

[Corktowner]

I think the viability of a downtown grocery store is about both population and purchasing power, and also car ownership. You need (a) a higher density of people who (b) have money and (c) don't all own cars that can get them to the Dundurn Street Fortinos and its massive free parking lot in five minutes. All these new buildings will bring people that fit that description, and I think a grocery store will probably be viable within a few years. (Although the other variable that's harder to predict is what happens with online ordering and delivery options.)

[Innsertnamehere]

I mean downtown does have a grocer with Nations.. but yea, a more "regular" store would be nice.

Giorgio's No Frills and Food Basics on Barton are both relatively close as well.

Someone will probably eventually open one but urban format grocery stores are far more expensive to construct and downtown is already served in closish proximity by several brands.

The only one I could see trying to enter the market is Empire / Sobeys with a Freshco, as they don't have a foot in the market yet.

I don't see a full service grocer like a Sobeys or Metro or Fortinos / Loblaws opening any time soon as the demographics really aren't there and the few that are there are already served well by Fortinos on Dundurn. The type of people who can afford full service grocers are far more likely to have cars anyway.

Longos is super expensive and needs a very high income clientele to survive, which just is not downtown Hamilton.

I could definitely see some like Rabba opening up in a space like this building, but it's really more of just a large convenience store than a full grocer.

[TheRitsman]

I suspect once LRT is underway we may start to see movement on redevelopment of the Dundurn plaza. We'll likely either see Fortinos be part of that development which happens in Toronto occasionally, or they'll move east into an existing development.

[TheHonestMaple]

I'd love to see that Fortinos get modernized, like the Fortinos in Westdale or the others in Burlington. I'm sure it will happen eventually.

I feel like I remember reading an article a while ago about how the owner of that Dundurn plaza already has plans in the works to build multiple condo towers on the site? Similar to the plaza conversions in Mississauga and Etobicoke. That is mostly keep the existing plaza commercial building, but just build condo towers right in front, with large underground parking to replace the existing surface parking.

[Crapht]

It makes so much sense to build on the parking lot at Dundurn. It’s possibly the most desirable for many people. LRT and Hwy 403 on your doorstep and two-way Main Street right there.
On another note “The complex on John Street South will have a unique look, with the “boutique scale” mid-rise wrapping around the towering, “slender point” highrise”. I wonder if slender point means there is something other than the mediocre block we see above.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I'd love to see that Fortinos get modernized, like the Fortinos in Westdale or the others in Burlington. I'm sure it will happen eventually.

I feel like I remember reading an article a while ago about how the owner of that Dundurn plaza already has plans in the works to build multiple condo towers on the site? Similar to the plaza conversions in Mississauga and Etobicoke. That is mostly keep the existing plaza commercial building, but just build condo towers right in front, with large underground parking to replace the existing surface parking.

I bet the reason they haven't modernized it is because they plan to demolish eventually. Many plaza buildings aren't built to last. A large box store building is meant to last 20-30 years maximum before significant renovations need to happen. That plaza was built what, 30 or 40 years ago? It's likely due for redevelopment.

That's why I was surprised to see the Food Basics beside that proposal on Centennial Parkway plan to stay for so long, the building likely isn't meant to even last that long.