Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Utah_Dave]

I don't know if we should read into this too much but the article shows a tech Campus on the block north of little America.

That would be cool

[delts145]

I like that they're advocating for K-8 opportunities downtown. Getting that accomplished will help to attract a more substantive family population. Also, as many have requested this past couple years, downtown needs a major public fitness/rec center. Glad to see they're actively advocating for that.

[airhero]

Looks like someone is taking out a building permit to put a "dessert studio" called Last Course at 115 S Regent Street. Those new spaces on the east side of Regent have been empty for an uncomfortably long time so it's good to see some movement.

[asies1981]

More on the Hardware District. The 4 story building will go west of the 4th West Apartments.

[bob rulz]

I can't wait to see that all built out. I need to take a walk up there so I can get a real sense of the size of the place, because it's huge!

[Ironweed]

KSL.com had an article out today:

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=44918702&nid...corridor-route

I'm not a big fan of KSL, but I had to reply to the article: This is what I said:

"I sincerely question the credibility of anyone who says they demand a reduction of pollution and toxic smog in the state. More roads, sprawl, and cars will are not the solution. The state of Utah is projected to add another 3,000,000 million people by 2050. Most of those new residents will live along the Wasatch Front. Doubling the amount of vehicular traffic is moronic. Everyone who currently lives here has a stake in this. Use your heads! Much denser urban development, particularly in the city centers is critical. Salt Lake City for example currently has a sea of parking lots downtown. This is not efficiency at all, and shows a serious lack of planning. Mass transportation, particularly rail is essential. Building more roads and freeways is a terrible sign. I'm genuinely concerned that the livability of this area is permanently compromised."

While not trying to pat myself on the back. I am a strong proponent of TOD.

Please read some of the other comments, and you can begin to understand why we are in the predicament we are in. Density and smart development will be an uphill battle here. The predominant thinking is: "I want my own backyard, single family, with a garage, two cars and two jacked up super trucks." Can the current development trends continue. Partially, I suppose. But not with out serious, and negative consequences.

This post could have been placed elsewhere, I'm sure. I felt I needed to share. The automobile culture, unabated will destroy, and is destroying quality of life in Utah. We live in a geographic anomaly that won't support more sprawl. Do we mandate that all cars be electric? That solves one half of the problem. What about more sprawl and intolerable traffic?

How do we educate and convince people that current trends are ruinous?

[bob rulz]

Ugh, there was someone in the comments (I saw 2 comments, I'm going to assume they were the same person) who actually proposed an E-W freeway in Salt Lake County.

It's nice to see there are at least a few reasonable people in those comments though.

I haven't been to this area of Davis County since my aunt moved away from Syracuse, but I seriously doubt the need for this freeway. At least the Legacy Highway provides another route through a very congested area that sees a lot of commuters, and was built with relatively minimal disruption. Here? It isn't a THROUGH route to anywhere, and won't serve nearly as big of a population as Legacy. I'm of the belief that if new freeways are to be built, they should serve more than just the people who live there, and should be built with as minimal disruption as possible (no tearing up of businesses or houses or snaking their way through built-up communities).

And maybe if people stopped buying houses in Syracuse and West Point when they work in Salt Lake, there wouldn't be such a traffic problem...but I digress.

I don't expect everywhere to be walkable, and realistically, far-flung suburban areas were designed so terribly, there's probably little hope of them ever becoming truly urban communities anyway (and not all of them have to be). But just imagine if we put the hundreds of millions of dollars that are going to be wasted on this freeway disaster to nowhere into public transit, and keeping our current roads maintained. But I know I'm preaching to the choir here.

EDIT: Nevermind, I saw 2 more people advocating for another east-west freeway in SL County, and they were all 4 different people. Christ, people really are dumb.

[airhero]

I wonder if UDOT even takes into account induced demand when building a new freeway. And I wonder how much this new freeway will cause Davis County's west side to explode even further.

Next up, I'm afraid, is Utah County's west side freeway and bridge over the lake.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by asies1981

More on the Hardware District. The 4 story building will go west of the 4th West Apartments.

I've been wondering what would be built on that lot west of 4th west apartments. I hope something else gets built north of the 4 story building to hide the parking garage.

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

But just imagine if we put the hundreds of millions of dollars that are going to be wasted on this freeway disaster to nowhere into public transit, and keeping our current roads maintained. But I know I'm preaching to the choir here.

I'll be the choir! I love to sing about transit.
If we were to invest the WDC money into FrontRunner, and were to achieve double-tracking over most (not all) of the line so that 15-minute frequencies were achieved, UTA projected ridership would jump from 19K daily boardings to 34K daily boardings. (Source, PDF, p 32) For reference, Los Angeles' commuter rail system of 7 lines only has 39K boardings per day. I hope you can all appreciate how totally awesome that would be - our 1 commuter line would be roughly as busy as all of Los Angeles' entire commuter rail system. Add in electrification and faster speeds, and we'd at least match them, if not beat them, in ridership. Imagine what could be built at Salt Lake Central, and how it would totally transform the downtown area. And all it takes is putting existing transportation money toward the right projects.
Instead we get another new freeway that will only reduce traffic by 30% - until 2 years from now when induced demand has caused traffic to increase 40%.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Hatman

I'll be the choir! I love to sing about transit.
If we were to invest the WDC money into FrontRunner, and were to achieve double-tracking over most (not all) of the line so that 15-minute frequencies were achieved, UTA projected ridership would jump from 19K daily boardings to 34K daily boardings. (Source, PDF, p 32) For reference, Los Angeles' commuter rail system of 7 lines only has 39K boardings per day. I hope you can all appreciate how totally awesome that would be - our 1 commuter line would be roughly as busy as all of Los Angeles' entire commuter rail system. Add in electrification and faster speeds, and we'd at least match them, if not beat them, in ridership. Imagine what could be built at Salt Lake Central, and how it would totally transform the downtown area. And all it takes is putting existing transportation money toward the right projects.
Instead we get another new freeway that will only reduce traffic by 30% - until 2 years from now when induced demand has caused traffic to increase 40%.

I think the last estimate put a complete double tracking of FrontRunner at around $700 Million.

I would love to see UDoT put money aside to help expand and enhance FrontRunner as it does reduce traffic on the highways which saves money from expansion and maintenance. I just don't see them doing this until the State forces them to think outside of Roads.

I do think once FrontRunner is at 15 minute frequencies we will see an explosion of TOD development along the line. Electrification with enhanced speeds would further increase this and density.

For the SLC Hub, I think that FrontRunner frequency is only a small part that is holding back the area from an explosion of development. The 2 things that will help and are more likely to happen sooner are the 4th South Trax Loop and the 7th South Trax Loop / Granary Streetcar lines.

With Trax having a deadend at the hub, it is only able to influence a small subset of the depot district. With the 4th South extension in place, this will allow a North/South development to occur. The 7th South Trax / Granary Streetcar line is still planned to go down 4th West. This adds the East/West component to the Depot District to complete the connectivity and service frequencies needed to accelerate growth.

I do think that the zoning in the area does need to be increased for Residential and Mixed use projects in the Depot district though. With the current planned transit services and frequencies that will be in the area in the next 10 to 15 years (not counting Frontrunner expansion), the zoning isn't close to what is needed for the area.

If the zoning for the Depot District is limited to just Residential and Mixed Use (50% or greater residential) allowing them to go up to 250' naturally and 300' with conditional use permit, I think that this wouldn't take as much development from Downtown.

It may take some Residential development but it wouldn't take all of it. It also wouldn't take much Commercial development. I also think it would help bridge the 2 areas with development along the Trax/Streetcar lines (South Temple, 2nd South, 4th South due to the increase in usage and possible pedestrian activity.

[asies1981]

The Mayor has announced her new selection for RDA operations officer.

[Orlando]

Speaking of Mayors, while in town this week I went hiking today and I ran into former Mayor Ralph Becker. We spoke for about 5-10 minutes on everything from his current endeavors, the new Mayor, and projects that he wanted to happen, such as the Fleet Block. I was impressed by how nice and easy to talk to he was.

[bob rulz]

That's awesome....I really liked Becker. I would love to get the chance to meet him, especially in an informal environment like that.

[TonyAnderson]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Speaking of Mayors, while in town this week I went hiking today and I ran into former Mayor Ralph Becker. We spoke for about 5-10 minutes on everything from his current endeavors, the new Mayor, and projects that he wanted to happen, such as the Fleet Block. I was impressed by how nice and easy to talk to he was.

What does he think of the new mayor?

[StevenF]

Originally Posted by TonyAnderson

What does he think of the new mayor?

probably not the best thing to discuss on a public forum. I would say take it to a private chat for that answer even though I would love to know that as well.

[Comrade]

I think Becker was looking like a decent mayor but his second term ended in near-disaster. A bulk of the homeless problem we face right now is partly because he didn't address it in a timely, and effective manner, in his second term (outside his touting that huge accomplishment of eradicating chronic homeless - but hey, it made for great headlines!). The increase in homeless around Rio Grande really exploded during his time in office and left whoever was going to replace him with a nice heap of shit to deal with. Plus, trust in the police, which also had an impact on that area, as well, eroded greatly in the final years of his time. I'm glad he's not mayor anymore. If he had only served one term, I'd maybe think differently but his second term was not really good for the city.

He's a good guy, though. Just got a bit in over his head.

I still don't know what to think of Jackie but I feel she's done a better job the last few months than when she came in - which she appeared to be forming a terrible stint as mayor.

[StevenF]

Lamb's Grill is closing its doors.

http://kutv.com/news/local/salt-lake...doors-for-good

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by StevenF

Lamb's Grill is closing its doors.

http://kutv.com/news/local/salt-lake...doors-for-good

All because of a fucking liquor license... seriously how hard would it have been to resolve this issue... It’s almost like they create all the red tape and bureaucracy just so they can use it as an excuse to sit on their asses and never accomplish anything.

I actually thought that the place had already closed. There was a sign on the door for a while. I can’t remember exactly what it said but it was somthing like “we are not a bar and we are not a restaurant so we are closed”.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I think Becker was looking like a decent mayor but his second term ended in near-disaster. A bulk of the homeless problem we face right now is partly because he didn't address it in a timely, and effective manner, in his second term (outside his touting that huge accomplishment of eradicating chronic homeless - but hey, it made for great headlines!). The increase in homeless around Rio Grande really exploded during his time in office and left whoever was going to replace him with a nice heap of shit to deal with. Plus, trust in the police, which also had an impact on that area, as well, eroded greatly in the final years of his time. I'm glad he's not mayor anymore. If he had only served one term, I'd maybe think differently but his second term was not really good for the city.

He's a good guy, though. Just got a bit in over his head.

I still don't know what to think of Jackie but I feel she's done a better job the last few months than when she came in - which she appeared to be forming a terrible stint as mayor.

I think a big part of the homeless problem is substance abuse. I can go stand by my window anytime I like and am pretty much guaranteed to see somebody thats either stoned or drunk walk by within 10 minutes. This is a really hard problem to address because a person has to want to get off the drugs in order to be successful.

I don’t really believe that we should put people in jail for using drugs... in fact I don’t even think they should be against the law. If somone wants to have that life then let them... but I also don’t think that we should have to take care of thoes people who make thoes bad choices for themselves... we should however be much more strict on other crimes that are commonly associated with drugs.

I do think that we should offer help and rehabilitation for thoes who want to get off the drugs and do somthing more productive... but you can’t force somone. I also think we need to beter educate our children on their own choices... don’t just say this is taboo. You shouldn’t do it... that will just intrigue them and feed into their naturally rebellious nature... We should just say “if you want to do drugs that’s your choice, but this is how you’re going to end up”

A lot of people who stay addicted to drugs are that way because of genetic weaknesses and flaws that cause them to be over compulsive, susceptible to addiction, manically depressed, and so on. It like we try to save these people and give them more opertunity to reproduce and pass on their flaws. I’m not saying we should kill people off or anything... but just let them have their way. Nature will take care of it self... I know it sounds horrible but why do you think you can’t go out in the wild and find lazy tigers who just lay around all day and let other tigers bring them food? I’m sure they have been born, but their own flaws kill them before they can can reproduce and pass it on... If we just let the druggies be, their weakness would eventually kill them off, and then we are left with people who don’t have thoes tendencies... and I mean it’s their own choice.


K that my weird rant (more like thinking out loud) that no one will agree with for the month