Baseline Rd. Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) Project | Proposed

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

"it would actually cut the travel time in half for those who need to cross the street to catch a bus."
-- It would also force those who do not need to cross the street to cross the street to catch a bus.

Well, technically it only cuts travel time in half if your only walk-travel time involves crossing the street and not walking along it for any length.

Otherwise, as another has already chimed in, given that most people-trips tend to be return, there is no difference between crossing all of Baseline once in a day, or crossing it halfway twice.

For some particular customers, if it doesn't particularly matter whether you go east or west, it will be a boon - if the stations are at the intersections, at low-frequency times, you can either wait for the bus in one direction, or hop across the street to go the other direction, if it turns up first.

[zzptichka]

I was at the Baseline BRT open house and most people present there had no idea what they were complaining about. Like "increased noise and vibration" (yeah, buses will be actually further from your home than they are now), "wider and faster road" (nope, same 3 lanes in each direction but actually narrower and slower than they are now), "smelly buses" (they'll probably be electric by the time it's all built), "decreased property values" (the opposite is true), etc.
To be fair, city staff didn't do a good job explaining all that to them either.

Originally Posted by rocketphish

[B][SIZE="4"]

The proposed 13.8-kilometre Baseline Road Rapid Transit Corridor also requires the partial expropriation of more than 200 residential and commercial properties, as well as the complete acquisition of up to 15 properties, to maintain two lanes of traffic on each side of the road, and include segregated bike lanes for cyclists and sidewalks for pedestrians.

Met some guy at the open house and he was very happy with the offer he was getting. Something like $50K for a corner of his property that they plan to lay utilities under and plant trees or lay sod or make a sidewalk on top. Basically free money.

[lrt's friend]

This is Ottawa's most critical missing rapid transit link. Full speed ahead.

Nonsense about walking to the middle of the street being a problem. It all averages out to about the same if you are making a round trip.

With this plan should come more frequent service. A minimum of 10 minute frequency in most hours, 15 minute during late evening. With improved travel times and more reliable service, frequency will definitely improve ridership. Let's hope we don't have to wait until 2031 for construction to begin.

[zzptichka]

There are some valid concerns like questionable/missing stops and reduced number of left turns but they can be dealt with for sure.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

I was at the Baseline BRT open house and most people present there had no idea what they were complaining about. Like "increased noise and vibration" (yeah, buses will be actually further from your home than they are now), "wider and faster road" (nope, same 3 lanes in each direction but actually narrower and slower than they are now), "smelly buses" (they'll probably be electric by the time it's all built)

Even if they are eventually all electric... how is a bus any "smellier" than the number of cars that it would require to transport the same number of people the same distance?

Do private automobiles fart out clouds of lilac and unicorn breath?

"decreased property values" (the opposite is true), etc.

As far as I'm concerned, the Big Four NIMBY Objections (property values, traffic/parking, the children, and character of the neighbourhood) should automatically be dismissed in any consultation on any project.

Met some guy at the open house and he was very happy with the offer he was getting. Something like $50K for a corner of his property that they plan to lay utilities under and plant trees or lay sod or make a sidewalk on top. Basically free money.

Wow.

[MountainView]

Clearly the people who are complaining are not the ones taking the bus transit. I really hope that the voices of 500 people to not outweigh the 6000+ rider's voices who will go unheard. Saving 11 minutes is a lot! And a fantastic way to increase ridership. The 118 is really the only crosstown route that does not go through the downtown core. I am a huge fan of the median bus lanes as it keeps the buses and other traffic separate.

[downtown_eddie_brown]

It's an exciting and needed plan. Hopefully they pair it with better access to Hurdman from Vanier/Overbrook/New Edinburgh; The 9 provides pathetic connectivity.

[Richard Eade]

I certainly agree that the Baseline corridor needs to be upgraded. (I am doubtful that the ridership along that corridor is only 6,000 per day; I expected it to be much higher.)

My concern about the plan is that it will be turning the buses away from the established route and going to Bayshore instead of maintaining a parallel bus route to/from Kanata. Having the Baseline buses go to Bayshore means that west-bound passengers will need to transfer onto buses that are being loaded by trains-full of people coming from downtown. My experience on the # 118 is that very few people transfer to buses that go between Baseline and Bayshore.

[Beedok]

Yeah, the connection to Kanata (and Bell's Corners) is a pretty vital asset of the 118.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

There are some valid concerns like questionable/missing stops and reduced number of left turns but they can be dealt with for sure.

And that is called constructive criticism.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I certainly agree that the Baseline corridor needs to be upgraded. (I am doubtful that the ridership along that corridor is only 6,000 per day; I expected it to be much higher.)

My concern about the plan is that it will be turning the buses away from the established route and going to Bayshore instead of maintaining a parallel bus route to/from Kanata. Having the Baseline buses go to Bayshore means that west-bound passengers will need to transfer onto buses that are being loaded by trains-full of people coming from downtown. My experience on the # 118 is that very few people transfer to buses that go between Baseline and Bayshore.

With a busway, surely they can have more than one route running on it. Every second bus to Bell's Corners and Kanata. This concern should be brought forward. There should not be a need to transfer. I think the need to go to Bayshore as well will increase with the closure of the Transitways, which will require an additional transfer at Lincoln Fields via LRT.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Yeah, the connection to Kanata (and Bell's Corners) is a pretty vital asset of the 118.

As you and lrt's friend point out this is something I completely missed as I was only focusing my attention to the first phase (Heron to Baseline). Removing the 118 from Bells Corners would be ridiculous. Even more ridiculous would be having the 118 go to Bayshore first and then loop back towards Bells Corners and Kanata. I always figured a lot of the 118 ridership past Baseline (if not before) was destined for Bells Corners or Kanata. What would they want people to do if the 118 ended at Bayshore now? Transfer to a 97? Craziness in my opinion. Contrary... in no way has OC Transpo or any article explicated said that the 118 would go towards Bayshore... just that is where the BRT will be extended to.

[1overcosc]

A likely outcome is the 118 being split. The Bells Corners/Kanata section of the route and the Baseline/Heron section of the route being cut up into two separate routes both ending at Bayshore. Would insulate the busway section of the route from delays associated with the long mixed traffic section through to Kanata and provide a more efficient connection to the LRT from Bells Corners & Kanata by offering a connection at Bayshore instead of one at Baseline.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

A likely outcome is the 118 being split. The Bells Corners/Kanata section of the route and the Baseline/Heron section of the route being cut up into two separate routes both ending at Bayshore. Would insulate the busway section of the route from delays associated with the long mixed traffic section through to Kanata and provide a more efficient connection to the LRT from Bells Corners & Kanata by offering a connection at Bayshore instead of one at Baseline.

But losing the benefits of BRT by imposing an awkward transfer. Route 118 is the most important cross-town route bypassing downtown. Why would we then direct passengers to LRT going downtown? Obviously, not many Route 118 passengers are going downtown.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

But losing the benefits of BRT by imposing an awkward transfer. Route 118 is the most important cross-town route bypassing downtown. Why would we then direct passengers to LRT going downtown? Obviously, not many Route 118 passengers are going downtown.

On Baseline yes. In Kanata most are probably just headed into the city in general.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

On Baseline yes. In Kanata most are probably just headed into the city in general.

I disagree. Those heading into town from Kanata would more likely use the 92 or 96 and from Bells Corners the 97. All of those buses already go to Bayshore, so there is no need for a 118 split to also go to Bayshore. A much more likely destination for riders of the 118 from Kanata/Bells Corners is Algonquin Collage.

In my mind there would likely be two routes. One that goes from Kanata to Algonquin Collage and another that goes from Bayshore to Hurdman . This will still isolate the main busway route from delays occurred on the extension to Kanata without forcing a needless detour and transfer for most riders.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

My experience on the # 118 is that very few people transfer to buses that go between Baseline and Bayshore.

Part of that is the transfer from/to Bayshore to/from the 118 is pretty miserable. You have to try and cross a major 4 lane highway and then wait in a tiny bus shelter at the side of said highway. A much preferable route is via Lincoln Fields, even if it is a bit longer.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

With a busway, surely they can have more than one route running on it. Every second bus to Bell's Corners and Kanata. This concern should be brought forward. There should not be a need to transfer. I think the need to go to Bayshore as well will increase with the closure of the Transitways, which will require an additional transfer at Lincoln Fields via LRT.

Yeah, I don't think the BRT idea and continuing a 118-style route along the current routing, are in any way exclusive ideas. If anything, BRTifying Baseline would add value to the continued Baseline-Kanata transit desire-line.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by roger1818

In my mind there would likely be two routes. One that goes from Kanata to Algonquin Collage and another that goes from Bayshore to Hurdman . This will still isolate the main busway route from delays occurred on the extension to Kanata without forcing a needless detour and transfer for most riders.

I like that. That's probably the best solution.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Part of that is the transfer from/to Bayshore to/from the 118 is pretty miserable. You have to try and cross a major 4 lane highway and then wait in a tiny bus shelter at the side of said highway. A much preferable route is via Lincoln Fields, even if it is a bit longer.

Lincoln Fields will not be a good transfer point for the 118 route, because it's out of the way.

The 118 route will be better off having 2 Western termini:
1) Kanata & Bells Corners;
2) Bayshore.

Kanata & Bells Corners are established users of the route & will likely grow with the increased usage of the former Nortel buildings for DND.

Bayshore Mall is the planned Western terminus of the LRT Phase 2, and a bigger destination than Lincoln Fields Plaza.

In the east, it should stop by Confederation LRT Station before continuing East along Heron, consistent with the Transit Priority Measures status of that road. Billings Bridge can be an optional detour as it is a stop on the SW Transitway.