Vancouver General Discussion Thread

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Also hate to say it but you have to take into account age and race when it comes to the gangs in Metro Vancouver. Certain communities including the Indo Canadian and Asian communities seem to turn a blind eye more than others to youth getting into criminal activities and organization. Now obviously there are all gamuts of age and race in gangs, but if you look at where it starts and where much of the recorded violence is, age and race play statistically relevant and contributing factors.

Any culture that puts "saving face" above doing the right thing is in danger of the level of gang encouragement we see here in the west. I grew up in Surrey and a lot of the gangs in my high-school were 80-90% made up of Indo-Canadians and most if not all were born here but the cultural norms were still being adhered to in home and in community. Most indo-Canadians I grew up with were fine and not in gangs don't get me wrong, but a large portion OF the gangs were. Just the fact RCMP E-Division had (and has still?) a specific Indo-Canadian gang task force, should tell everyone something. Yes there are Bacon brothers and other but again I'm talking higher predisposition which again emphasis more education and targeting specific youth groups rather than brushing things aside and hiding from the truth only to save face or "honor."

That's another reason why I feel you see a higher rate out in Surrey than in many other parts. Partly because we have a large population but also because we have a younger demographic overall and some of the established communities I mentioned above that unfortunately often don't discourage criminal activity. Are things improving? Hopefully, but I fear when the murders and shooting numbers drop down to established "norm" it will be out of sight, out of mind, and we'll go back to status quo then in 10-15 years we'll be back to today.

Unfortunately humans are inherently not nice creatures. I always take exception when people tell me "deep down, people are nice" when they see acts of kindness because it misses the entire context of the world. When you look across the entire world from wealthy 1% in the western world, to many parts of Africa, the middle east, Asia, and South America, the underlining truth is that most people lie, steal, bribe, and cheat. Some people are nice, humanity as a whole is not.

So some of it there just isn't much we will ever be able to do about it.

Your perspective is insightful/profound and one that I tend to agree with. Your arguments however raises a relevant point: that of the impact of institutional racism along with cultural or ethnic bias in deepening/reinforcing the isolation, exclusion and frustration of Indo/Asian-Canadian youths who hail from families under cultural/economic stress!

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

There is a tendency to throw the term "middle class' around loosely as if it is a predeterminator or insulator for poverty and certain cultural disposition to societal acts of violent desperation. Truth be told, many folks who think that they are solidly "middle class" are not and are living on a financial ledge in debt! Even so, many youngsters from so called middle class homes cannot find (or sometmes do not want legal) well paying/"good jobs" to sustain their desired AFFLUENT "middle class" lifestyle.....hence the allure of drug gangs. I wonder if Toronto has the same demographics of "middle class" youngsters engaging in street level drug gangs or are they more so the traditional poor immigrant youth from dysfunctional single parent/mother households?

A false sense of entitlement prevails in this generation. Many people do not believe in hard work to make it to middle class or attain wealth. They believe in "inheritence" or other short cut measures. Sad really.

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

A lot, if not most, of Vancouver gang members come from middle class families. Inequality is a problem here, but it's not like it is in other places where the working class often have no other choice. Lack of options is not the main reason for gang violence here.

The gang war going on in Surrey is between Indo-Canadian groups (middle+working class) and Somalians (Working-Class Refugees)

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Vin

A false sense of entitlement prevails in this generation. Many people do not believe in hard work to make it to middle class or attain wealth. They believe in "inheritence" or other short cut measures. Sad really.

I wonder though if past immigration during the 19th and 20th centuries from mainly European countries/cultures had a critically different hue/impact on the Canadian fabric in contrast with present day immigration from essentially non-Eurocentric countries/cultures???

[Klazu]

What is the huge excavation taking place at the north end of the Lions Gate Bridge, on the First Nations land opposite to the Capilano RV park? I noticed it yesterday when crossing the bridge.

[Klazu]

Pretty clever concrete/paving, letting water pass right through. From Reddit.

It's called permeable concrete. It helps to send rain water through, rather than sheet off. It's not so great in freeze-thaw environments. There is also a product called Rhinox that allows the same goal. It's a concrete paver that is 50% open so soil /grass / growies can show through. It's expensive though.

[Klazu]

On Global BC they mentioned that there is a new operator planning to begin a new Vancouver - Victoria ferry connection later this year. It sounded like a challenging business plan, but competition would be good.

Apparently same has been tried several times in the past, ending always in a bankruptcy. Maybe larger population on both ends could help them this time?

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Klazu

On Global BC they mentioned that there is a new operator planning to begin a new Vancouver - Victoria ferry connection later this year. It sounded like a challenging business plan, but competition would be good.

Apparently same has been tried several times in the past, ending always in a bankruptcy. Maybe larger population on both ends could help them this time?

Wasn't there supposed to be a similar service to Nanaimo proposed about a year ago too? It was supposed to cater to commuters but I don't think it's going anywhere.

[st7860]

BC ferries sold a few ships recently that had recently undergone millions in renovations. the selling price wasn't disclosed.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2221276/co...-ferries-sale/

[urbancanadian]

^^I've always wondered why no one has been able to make a passenger ferry viable. Are there that few people who can't make the trek without their cars? Or does it has more to do with the lack of options once you get off the ferries... Maybe it would be worthwhile for a ferry operator to partner with car share companies on either side and have select fares that include a pass or a voucher to use the cars. Could that work?

Also, regarding Gregor Robertson's foray into the refugee issue, I will just mention that he is also chair of the Big City Mayors' Caucus for the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, which is having an increasingly important political role nationally. No opinion from me, just something I thought I'd add to the conversation.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by urbancanadian

^^I've always wondered why no one has been able to make a passenger ferry viable. Are there that few people who can't make the trek without their cars? Or does it has more to do with the lack of options once you get off the ferries... Maybe it would be worthwhile for a ferry operator to partner with car share companies on either side and have select fares that include a pass or a voucher to use the cars. Could that work?

Also, regarding Gregor Robertson's foray into the refugee issue, I will just mention that he is also chair of the Big City Mayors' Caucus for the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, which is having an increasingly important political role nationally. No opinion from me, just something I thought I'd add to the conversation.

I'd guess it's reliability...if I live in Nanaimo, would I really take a job in Vancouver if there's a good chance the ferry will fail within the year?

[Caliplanner1]

[QUOTE=urbancanadian;7166774]^^I've always wondered why no one has been able to make a passenger ferry viable. Are there that few people who can't make the trek without their cars? Or does it has more to do with the lack of options once you get off the ferries... Maybe it would be worthwhile for a ferry operator to partner with car share companies on either side and have select fares that include a pass or a voucher to use the cars. Could that work?
QUOTE]

I know this is hard to swallow for many on the right of the political spectrum but in life there are some critical industries that are debt prone and thus best undertaken by government (and not the private sector)!

[WarrenC12]

As somebody who lives downtown and has family in Victoria, I was really excited about this, but then I read the proposal.

It will be ~$80 each way, per person, and take over 3 hours. They are branding it as some sort of luxury trip. Completely failing to read the market, IMO. People with money will take a flying option.

[Bdawe]

The one disadvantage with the flying option is that there is a 25 pound luggage limit and that seaplanes are crampt. Great for a cabinet minister with a briefcase, but not good for all purposes.


There might be a market segment here - it's faster and more expensive than the pacific coach's direct via the ferry service, but doesn't involve leaving your seat. It's cheaper than typical flight tickets, however.

It's apparently a model that works Seattle-Victoria (though without much competition), so why not Vancouver Victoria?

[red-paladin]

An update on the Nanaimo - Vancouver plans:
http://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/du...erry-1.2557358

There is a also a proposal for a Vancouver - Victoria service now:
http://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/pr...uver-1.2567090

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

The one disadvantage with the flying option is that there is a 25 pound luggage limit and that seaplanes are crampt. Great for a cabinet minister with a briefcase, but not good for all purposes.


There might be a market segment here - it's faster and more expensive than the pacific coach's direct via the ferry service, but doesn't involve leaving your seat. It's cheaper than typical flight tickets, however.

It's apparently a model that works Seattle-Victoria (though without much competition), so why not Vancouver Victoria?

For my wife and I to take a ferry, it's $88 for us and our car. Travel time on the boat itself is 90mins, plus 30-45mins driving on each side, that's roughly the same time.

Now that comparison doesn't include potential waits at the Terminal, so maybe that's another hour of time. However, it's $88 vs $160, and we still have our car on the other side.

Alternatively, we can fly, 30 mins or so, $150 each ($300 total).

Honestly, I don't think there's much of a market in between these options, and I'd like to think I'm an ideal target market: travel 2-3 times/year to the island, and live downtown.

I'd happily pay around $50 for something that takes less than 3+ hours. I don't see why it has to take so long.

Keep in mind this is a company from Australia. My suspicion here is that they don't understand the local nuances well enough in their business case. Also don't forget this has been proposed and failed multiple times in the past, to/from various Vancouver locations to the island. It's like the bridge in the sense that it's the "obvious" solution that never seems to make financial sense.

[Klazu]

Another interesting story around ferry connections...

B.C. looks at fixed link to Sunshine Coast

The B.C. government says it will study the costs and benefits of a highway or bridge link to the provinces Sunshine Coast.

Transportation Minister Todd Stone announced Friday that they’ve heard from the public from Powell River and along the Sunshine Coast that highway access is important for attracting tourism and investment.

Stone says in a news release that over the coming months the government will weigh the current 45 kilometre ferry trip against a highway or a bridge connection along the coast.

West Vancouver member of the legislature Jordan Strudy will be gauging community interested with local leaders and the public.

Study says while there are many who would embrace a more non-stop connection to Metro Vancouver, there are others who wouldn’t want to see such a change.

The government says a request for proposals will go out looking for a firm that has expertise to study the issue with the survey expected to get underway later this year.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2229435/b-...unshine-coast/

[Prometheus]

Will never happen.

[Klazu]

On television they said that the current Langdale ferry is making an annual profit of 10M (the ferry onwards to Powell River is making a 7M loss).

Even Christy was commenting on this, but stressing how this is only very preliminary.

[Infrequent Poster]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Another interesting story around ferry connections...

Yeah this is not gonna happen. Where is this 45km number coming from? pretty sure langdale-horshoe bay is less then half of that. Unless they are combining the two ferry routes (earls cove-saltery bay). If they actually spending tax payer money on this....It kind of makes me mad (I think). As this is some pie in the sky shit. The outcome of any study is obviosly gonna be, this is to exspensive and there are not enough people to justify.