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  #161  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2021, 1:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SL123 View Post
Leiper is one of the biggest hypocrite. He's big talk for public transit, densification, Affordable housing, but when its in his ward, he switches real quick. This project couldnt be closer to the LRT station and 12 floor is still too much for him
While I agree that its proximity to Kichi Sibi station makes it a perfect location for density, Winston and Wilmont Ave. aren't designed to handle the traffic that this building would create. Yes many will use the O-Train for many trips, the type of person who can afford a new condo like this will very likely own a car and will use it sometimes. You can't mandate that owners not own a car (reducing the amount of parking will only result in people parking their cars on the surrounding side streets).

I would like to see this project proceed, but I do understand the concerns. I find many on here take a utopian view that there are masses of people who don't want to own a car and instead rely on transit. Yes we do need to work towards that goal, but it won't happen overnight.
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  #162  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2021, 2:01 PM
ottawasoccer ottawasoccer is offline
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I think generally Leiper is pretty reasonable

Last edited by ottawasoccer; Nov 29, 2021 at 4:38 PM.
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  #163  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2021, 3:17 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
While I agree that its proximity to Kichi Sibi station makes it a perfect location for density, Winston and Wilmont Ave. aren't designed to handle the traffic that this building would create. Yes many will use the O-Train for many trips, the type of person who can afford a new condo like this will very likely own a car and will use it sometimes. You can't mandate that owners not own a car (reducing the amount of parking will only result in people parking their cars on the surrounding side streets).

I would like to see this project proceed, but I do understand the concerns. I find many on here take a utopian view that there are masses of people who don't want to own a car and instead rely on transit. Yes we do need to work towards that goal, but it won't happen overnight.
Not really sure what you mean by saying Winston and Wilmont aren't designed to handle the traffic that this building would create. Does a building like this really lead to a massive influx of traffic? Admittedly I haven't read the transportation study, but it looks to me like a project that would create a relatively small number of trips per hour, and even at peak times I don't see what is unique about Wilmont that would prevent it from handling a car every few minutes.
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  #164  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2021, 5:11 PM
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Not really sure what you mean by saying Winston and Wilmont aren't designed to handle the traffic that this building would create. Does a building like this really lead to a massive influx of traffic? Admittedly I haven't read the transportation study, but it looks to me like a project that would create a relatively small number of trips per hour, and even at peak times I don't see what is unique about Wilmont that would prevent it from handling a car every few minutes.
I guess it really depends on what you mean by "designed to handle the traffic." I agree that it wouldn't result in traffic congestion with cars backed up up along the entire street, but that is a pretty low bar to set. My point is that it is never desirable to direct traffic onto residential streets. It is always better to redirect it to roads.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, which street to you think is better to direct traffic onto?

Wilmont Ave.


Churchill Ave. N.

Last edited by roger1818; Nov 29, 2021 at 6:06 PM. Reason: Changed to use Wilmont Ave. instead of Winston Ave.
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  #165  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2021, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I guess it really depends on what you mean by "designed to handle the traffic." I agree that it wouldn't result in traffic congestion with cars backed up up along the entire street, but that is a pretty low bar to set. My point is that it is never desirable to direct traffic onto residential streets. It is always better to redirect it to roads.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, which street to you think is better to direct traffic onto?
No doubt that Winston is a narrow street, but what about Wilmont, which is much wider and leads directly to Churchill. For the volumes we are talking about, do you really think that it is going to be that big of an issue?
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  #166  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2021, 5:55 PM
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Yeah its weird that your using winston as an example as it does not even lead to Richmond. Also, narrow streets usually result in slow moving vehicles.

Second, the ramps for the garage connect to Wilmont & Roosevelt, and are likely all one garage. Either way on street parking can be banned if "traffic" is such a concern to those living there (public roads are well public)

Winston road width: ~6m ROW: ~12m

Wilmont road width: ~9m ROW: ~17.5m

Roosevelt Road width: ~8m ROW: ~20m

Plus there is also this dev as well - https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho....php?p=8067547
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  #167  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2021, 6:00 PM
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Yeah its weird that your using winston as an example as it does not even lead to Richmond.
My bad, I changed it for Wilmont.

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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
No doubt that Winston is a narrow street, but what about Wilmont, which is much wider and leads directly to Churchill. For the volumes we are talking about, do you really think that it is going to be that big of an issue?
I agree that it is a bit wider, but it is not Churchill.
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  #168  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 9:10 PM
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This is a strange one to oppose. They've done a lot of work based on feedback to try and improve. It's not that far from current zoning in terms of height, and just about (?) the zoned density.

Opposition really seems focused on height.
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  #169  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2021, 4:38 AM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
This is a strange one to oppose. They've done a lot of work based on feedback to try and improve. It's not that far from current zoning in terms of height, and just about (?) the zoned density.

Opposition really seems focused on height.
Just to be clear, I am not opposed to this development. Aesthetically it works well with the neighbourhood and having density close to a transit station makes a lot of sense. It that I am sympathetic to those who are opposed to it, since it will result in significantly higher traffic on residential streets (not everyone living there will always use the O-Train).

Either way, I won’t lose any sleep over this project.
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  #170  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2022, 1:57 AM
SidetrackedSue SidetrackedSue is offline
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https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...al-in-westboro

Not much to say about this. I'm conflicted. I walk past there often (it is part of my 'construction' walk past 9 different construction sites in the neighbourhood) and I think that when you think about what is coming, even along Roosevelt, at 12 stories it is a good compromise. But I feel sorry for the fancy newer builds along there that will be sandwiched between higher buildings. And I haven't seen what will be coming to 350 Roosevelt yet. Just the proposals for the Tubmans and at 406 Roosevelt.
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  #171  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2022, 2:21 AM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
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This thread is over a decade old. Nothing has been built yet- on a property located almost right next to a transit station.

This is "Exhibit A" for planning approval hurdles leading to housing supply shortages.
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  #172  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2022, 2:35 AM
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  #173  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2022, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue View Post
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...al-in-westboro

Not much to say about this. I'm conflicted. I walk past there often (it is part of my 'construction' walk past 9 different construction sites in the neighbourhood) and I think that when you think about what is coming, even along Roosevelt, at 12 stories it is a good compromise. But I feel sorry for the fancy newer builds along there that will be sandwiched between higher buildings. And I haven't seen what will be coming to 350 Roosevelt yet. Just the proposals for the Tubmans and at 406 Roosevelt.
Size still matters when it comes to 12-storey apartment proposal in Westboro
A previous city council decision to allow 16-storey and 14-storey towers at the property was torpedoed by an Ontario Municipal Board adjudicator in 2014.

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Apr 18, 2022 • 11 hours ago • 3 minute read




A proposed 12-storey apartment complex eyed for Westboro near a future LRT station shows that even an Ontario planning appeal tribunal decision might not set the land rules forever — or even for eight years.

Uniform Urban Developments has a plan to spread 263 units over two 12-storey apartment towers and three three-storey apartment buildings on a property at the north edge of Westboro along the Transitway at Roosevelt, Winston and Wilmont avenues.

The development proposal, which is scheduled for political consideration this month, is the group’s latest attempt to transform a manufacturing site into a high-density residential complex near a future LRT line.

A previous city council decision to allow 16-storey and 14-storey towers at the property was torpedoed by an Ontario Municipal Board adjudicator in 2014, giving community opponents a big win on appeal.

The adjudicator, who pointed out unclear city planning policies and “unusual” procedures when it came to the city’s community consultation, ruled that the property’s maximum building height is eight storeys.

The controversy has been less about density and more about the shape of the buildings.

In recent years, the developer pitched two towers of 21 and 18 storeys with 361 units, but changed course after hearing concerns from the community about the height of the buildings, leading to the current 12-storey proposal.

The reduced height hasn’t quieted the outcries in the community, including from neighbours who took a stand during the tribunal hearing in 2014, like Gay Stinson and Christoph Zürcher.

Zürcher, a resident of Wilmont Avenue, said the project’s density goals could be reached with the new height and that there’s nothing in the new official plan that would legally support taller buildings. It’s no surprise the planning department is recommending approval “and I have no doubt that council will approve it,” Zürcher said Monday.

“This just shows once more that urban planning processes in this city have been captured by the developers, to use a very polite wording,” Zürcher said.

Stinson, who lives on nearby Whitby Avenue, remembered all the work and community fundraising that went into the 2014 tribunal win, but now she feels “disheartened and dismayed” by the new development proposal.

“People are appalled and angry about it,” Stinson said.

“All of our arguments are the same arguments, that it doesn’t suit the residential characteristic of the community in which we live.”

Planning staff support changing the current official plan, the new council-approved official plan awaiting provincial approval and the zoning bylaw to allow the development.

In the recommended official plan amendment, staff explain that the 12-storey concept would allow more open space on the property. The current rules for the property would allow 60 per cent of the land to be covered, whereas the proposed lot coverage under the development scheme would be just over 48 per cent.

The 77,070-square-metre property is attractive for high-density development. It’s less than 200 metres from Dominion Station (being renamed Kìchì Sìbì Station), which will be repositioned 50 metres closer to the property as part of the Stage 2 LRT project. Another future LRT stop at Westboro Station is east of the development site.

For the city, there could be some enticing language in the developer’s planning rationale when it comes to the proposed ground-orientated low-rise units.

“These units are modelled after the 6-1-3 flats concept developed as part of consultations for the new official plan, demonstrating the effectiveness of ground-oriented housing for integrating new development within and at the edge of existing, mature neighbourhoods,” according to the planning rationale filed with the development application.

The 613 Flats idea to diversify housing, especially for families in residential intensification projects, has the city urging developers to create six-room homes that have one bathroom and three bedrooms.

Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper is sticking up for constituents who are fighting the proposed height of the project.

In his written remarks attached to the report scheduled to be considered by the planning committee on April 28, Leiper said there are positive things about the proposal, like additional green space and significant building stepbacks.

“Size, however, matters,” Leiper wrote.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...al-in-westboro
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  #174  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2022, 12:24 PM
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It's funny to me that a block away, at this very moment, there is a 25 story building under construction. 2 blocks in the other direction there are 14 and 21 story towers. That's fine, but here they want a lot line to lot line mid-rise because even 12 stories 'wouldn't fit the neighbourhood'.
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  #175  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2022, 12:36 PM
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Oof...Reddit r/Ottawa is NOT having this NIMBYism..

https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comm...oro_a_concern/
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  #176  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2022, 1:13 PM
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Leiper's hypocrisy strikes again
"Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper is sticking up for constituents who are fighting the proposed height of the project."
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  #177  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2022, 2:34 PM
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Leiper's hypocrisy strikes again
"Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper is sticking up for constituents who are fighting the proposed height of the project."
Ehhh, he gave a fairly well thought out comment on reddit
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  #178  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2022, 4:03 PM
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Ehhh, he gave a fairly well thought out comment on reddit
Agreed. People on here complain about developments having too much parking, but when people raise concerns about the increase in traffic on local streets as a result of all the cars parked in that parking, they get labeled as NIMBYs.
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  #179  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2022, 5:20 PM
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I'm usually a staunch defender of Leiper, but I'm having trouble with this one. This following comment is baffling:

Quote:
Leiper said there are positive things about the proposal, like additional green space and significant building stepbacks.
The reason for the additional greenspace and set-backs is precisely because of the additional height.

I get that they fought at the OMB and won. Sucks to have to fight all over again. To me, 12 floors is a good compromise.
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  #180  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2022, 5:34 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
It's funny to me that a block away, at this very moment, there is a 25 story building under construction. 2 blocks in the other direction there are 14 and 21 story towers. That's fine, but here they want a lot line to lot line mid-rise because even 12 stories 'wouldn't fit the neighbourhood'.
Pretty well the entire length of Roosevelt north of Richmond Road is now occupied by recent (past decade) teardown-and-rebuild houses that have been the subject of countless past bunfights about the cHArActEr oF tHe NeiGhbOurHoOd.

The circle of NIMBY life.
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