Tsawwassen First Nation Updates

[officedweller]

January 19, 2016:


http://www.tsawwassenmills.ca/node/64

Winter 2016 Update:

CONSTRUCTION OF TSAWWASSEN MILLS

WITH LESS THAN A YEAR UNTIL THE GRAND OPENING OF TSAWWASSEN MILLS, CONSTRUCTION IS PROGRESSING QUICKLY.

Roof and skylight installations are now complete, along with paving of the 6,000-stall parking lot. Crews have also installed parking lot lighting.

The custom exterior for anchor tenant Bass Pro Shops is nearly complete and interior tenant improvements will soon begin throughout the mall. Power and water are also now functional within the entire shopping centre.

http://www.tsawwassenmills.ca/node/64

[csbvan]

What a blight! Good thing I go past this thing once or MAYBE twice a year.

[Klazu]

That must be the most American mall in all of BC! Perhaps in Alberta one can find something of similar scale... Yikes.

So what's the backstory here? Was Delta viewing this project pleasantly or did the First Nations just build it without any regards of Delta authorities' opinion? It seems like such a backwards project to even think about here in Lower Mainland where no huge car-dependent malls have (thankfully) existed, until now.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Klazu

That must be the most American mall in all of BC! Perhaps in Alberta one can find something of similar scale... Yikes.

So what's the backstory here? Was Delta viewing this project pleasantly or did the First Nations just build it without any regards of Delta authorities' opinion? It seems like such a backwards project to even think about here in Lower Mainland where no huge car-dependent malls have (thankfully) existed, until now.

That's what seems so confusing about this thing. It seems like an extremely dated mall concept. I wonder how much of the space is leased so far?

[officedweller]

It only seems outdated because its in a new area of development - i.e. an early developmental stage for that [aboriginal] community.

i.e. Brentwood, Oakridge, Guildford, etc. all started out with "low density".
Even downtowns on street grids start out with low density.
Over time the use (and density) will intensify (This isn't Dubai).

The alternative might be to try to market a "whole" community that people won't want to live at (i.e. Dominion Triangle comes to mind) or with office space that'll sit empty for years.

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by officedweller

January 19, 2016:


http://www.tsawwassenmills.ca/node/64

Winter 2016 Update:


http://www.tsawwassenmills.ca/node/64

When I was 6, I would have been so excited by this thing. Along with skyscrapers, it's what I thought big cities were all about.

It will be interesting to see how it does, and what it does to the neighbouring retail in the region. The only reason I can think of for not wanting it to fail is that I don't want a mega-ghost mall sitting around. A big difference between this and Brentwood, Oakridge, Guildford, etc., is that there is no place here for significant growth. The residential component is pretty small, and Tsawwassen / Ladner aren't ever going to explode in population. If one looks at the whole region, who would ever build a giant retail centre in a far flung corner which is lightly populated and is a dead-end for the vast majority? The only route to success has to be based on getting large numbers of people to drive at least a medium distance. What a contribution to the environmental agenda!

[Infrequent Poster]

Originally Posted by Marshal

When I was 6, I would have been so excited by this thing. Along with skyscrapers, it's what I thought big cities were all about.

It will be interesting to see how it does, and what it does to the neighbouring retail in the region. The only reason I can think of for not wanting it to fail is that I don't want a mega-ghost mall sitting around. A big difference between this and Brentwood, Oakridge, Guildford, etc., is that there is no place here for significant growth. The residential component is pretty small, and Tsawwassen / Ladner aren't ever going to explode in population. If one looks at the whole region, who would ever build a giant retail centre in a far flung corner which is lightly populated and is a dead-end for the vast majority? The only route to success has to be based on getting large numbers of people to drive at least a medium distance. What a contribution to the environmental agenda!

I wonder how much business they will get from people coming off the ferry from Nanaimo, Victoria etc. While I'm sure many of the stores at this mall will be present on Vancouver island as well. I'm sure there will be some that arent. There is nothing on Vancouver Island that approaches the scale of this mall (woodgrove is probably the closest).

It does seem like a strange location though. I absolutely agree.

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by Infrequent Poster

I wonder how much business they will get from people coming off the ferry from Nanaimo, Victoria etc. While I'm sure many of the stores at this mall will be present on Vancouver island as well. I'm sure there will be some that arent. There is nothing on Vancouver Island that approaches the scale of this mall (woodgrove is probably the closest).

It does seem like a strange location though. I absolutely agree.

I think you are right, but if half of Victoria/Nanaimo areas shop fulltime at this place, it will barely make a dent in what they will need. Donald Trump's supporters are proving that i don't know much about some segments of, let’s say Western, population and culture. So, I will be interested to see if the research done by Ivanhoe Cambridge and the Property Development Group 's makes sense.

[urbancanadian]

Originally Posted by Klazu

That must be the most American mall in all of BC! Perhaps in Alberta one can find something of similar scale... Yikes.

So what's the backstory here? Was Delta viewing this project pleasantly or did the First Nations just build it without any regards of Delta authorities' opinion? It seems like such a backwards project to even think about here in Lower Mainland where no huge car-dependent malls have (thankfully) existed, until now.

It's a mills-style mall - very common in North America; every city has at least one, and they all seem to be around this size. Vancouver is one of the last cities to get one, and with our progressive regional planning we may have never seen one get built. But this is on First Nations' land and the treaty the Tsawwassen Nation signed basically gives them their land to treat as its own municipality (if that makes any sense). The only city in Metro Van that I could see maybe allowing this to be built would be Langley. Otherwise maybe Abbotsford or Chilliwack...

And Delta is very worried about the impact this will have on the communities of Tsawwassen and Ladner.

Anyways, this is basically a replica of Vaughn Mills in Toronto and CrossIron Mills in Calgary. I've been to a bunch in the US and they are just as gross - Arizona Mills, Katy Mills, Colorado Mills, Ontario Mills. Always in the suburbs (usually waay out there), and always at a major freeway interchange.


PS - I think it was confirmed that Sak's Off 5th was opening here.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Marshal

A big difference between this and Brentwood, Oakridge, Guildford, etc., is that there is no place here for significant growth. The residential component is pretty small, and Tsawwassen / Ladner aren't ever going to explode in population. If one looks at the whole region, who would ever build a giant retail centre in a far flung corner which is lightly populated and is a dead-end for the vast majority? The only route to success has to be based on getting large numbers of people to drive at least a medium distance. What a contribution to the environmental agenda!

Apart from the physical location being a far flung location...

Here's a pic of Oakridge Centre when it was built in 1958:


http://vintageairphotos.com/58-19/

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Apart from the physical location being a far flung location...

Here's a pic of Oakridge Centre when it was built in 1958:


http://vintageairphotos.com/58-19/

Yes, and there are pictures of Lansdowne surrounded (almost completely) by farm fields. If there was no ALR, or farmland for that matter, this area would be no worse than Langley to see developed on a large scale. "The last ocean front community."

As far as all the other "Mills" go, even CrossIron Mills in Calgary was built beyond the edge of the actual urban fabric. Not for long, but, for Calgary, as far out as one could risk going. Though I guess it could have been plunked down on Airdrie . . . squash, good-bye Airdrie.

[officedweller]

Pic from their Twitter (Dec 2015) facing the other way.
The preloading in the foreground is for the Tsawwassen Commons strip mall
(Wal-Mart, Rona (now Lowe's), Canadian Tire, Homesense, Petsmart, Mark's, Dollarama)
http://tsawwassencommons.ca/availability
Interesting that Homesense is in the Commons and not at the Mills (could be easier access to cars with large items?).
I wonder where Winners will be?


https://twitter.com/TsawwassenMills

[Klazu]

I was in the area today and took few snaps. Unfortunately there is not much to take photos of, but damn how huge the area is! Even the aerials don't do it justice how extensive the parking areas really are and how much else there is going on next to the mall!

It will be interesting to see if they manage to fill up all the parking spaces when this finally opens. The area is going to be busy and I am not sure if the six-laned Highway 17 next to the mall will be enough to move it all.

[Metro-One]

Should have been upgraded to interchanges in connection to this development, The only possible benefit of this project was missed.

[Klazu]

At least there is plenty of free capacity on the SFPR between Highway 99 and Tsawwassen. Just few cars on the road, doing 30km/h over the speed limit. Just like two years ago when I last time drove this stretch.

[cornholio]

This mall will do really well. The region really has a shortage of easily accessible destination malls. Once the new bridge is in it will only help further. People will travel to this mall from the entire region. Remembered that 86% of the population drives and that will not change and most current malls are now hemmed in congested developed parts of the city while this mall is on the outside and out of the heaviest congestion. I am glad this mall is being built, even living in south Vancouver currently I would probably rather drive to this mall then to Metro-town. (keep in mind I don't shop often, usually designate 2 or 3 days a year to just get everything I need in one go, the rest I get online minus food which I just go to the Superstore in south Vancouver once in a while which is also easily accessible by car).

[CurtisVerbatim]

Drove through there recently and I couldn't believe the length of the left turn lanes for 56th st south. there really should have been an interchange built. my cousin is an engineer on the highway project and even he agrees. same for the last segment before the ferry causeway being only one lane southbound. highway 17 has been a huge waste of money as they're just gonna have to upgrade the whole thing in the coming years costing millions more than it would have if it were done right the first time.

[Infrequent Poster]

Originally Posted by idunno

http://formretail.catylist.com/jsp/l...?ID=55_2108984
-There's also a rendering there

Phase I is 619,000 sq ft., enclosed mall by 2012

Phase II is a 1,200,000 sq ft enclosed mall - 2014

So at a proposed 1,819,000 sq ft, this will be the largest mall in BC (Metrotown is 1,783,000 sq ft), if you include all components of the development.

I'm imagining something like the Supermall of the Great Northwest south of Seattle.

This thing is really going to be bigger then metrotown?

List of largest enclosed shopping malls in Canada
Mall name, location Pce Retail space (sq. ft.)
West Edmonton Mall Edmonton, Alberta Alberta 3,800,000
Square One Mississauga, Ontario Ontario 1,800,000+
Metropolis at Metrotown Burnaby, British Columbia British Columbia 1,795,591
Yorkdale Toronto, Ontario Ontario 1,700,00

Based on square footage that would make it the second biggest mall in Canada. Clearly, visually this is a big development. I didnt however realize it was that big.

[SpongeG]

if its going to be outlet type stores how many can vancouver area have? the outlet mall at the airport is really quiet and loads of empty spots with more space getting built. Most markets our size have one or two outlets per big brand, ie seattle has two coach outlet stores, and one ralph lauren. The big box components might help draw some people perhaps.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Infrequent Poster

This thing is really going to be bigger then metrotown?

List of largest enclosed shopping malls in Canada
Mall name, location Pce Retail space (sq. ft.)
West Edmonton Mall Edmonton, Alberta Alberta 3,800,000
Square One Mississauga, Ontario Ontario 1,800,000+
Metropolis at Metrotown Burnaby, British Columbia British Columbia 1,795,591
Yorkdale Toronto, Ontario Ontario 1,700,00

Based on square footage that would make it the second biggest mall in Canada. Clearly, visually this is a big development. I didnt however realize it was that big.

I don't see the logic of counting this as 1 mall ... as it is 2 projects. separated by huge parking lots.

and if you do consider this 1 project .... then I would think STATION SQUARE and THE CRYSTAL MALL in Burnaby should be added to the METROTOWN total. then pushing it well towards 2.5 million if not more....