Retail News

[fastcarsfreedom]

Thanks JT--it's appreciated. I grew up in, and love Hamilton--and when I moved here (Windsor) for school, I felt immediately at home. Despite our reputation, we are a city of tree-lined streets, beautiful waterfront parks, an array of restaurants worthy of a city much larger, cultural institutions, a growing University, etc. Sound familiar? Downtown, while wilted (in the retail sense), is far from dead--having recently welcomed a new St. Clair College campus and Chrysler Canada's HQ. I am saddened when I come to this Forum and see people who claim to love Hamilton acting like the very a-holes who judge Hamilton from the QEW...it's a shame and a disappointment.

[fastcarsfreedom]

On another retail-related note, the estate of late private equity investor Jerry Zucker has sold HBC to the parent company of U.S. department store chain Lord & Taylor and jewelry and home fashion retailer Fortunoff.

Initial plans call for the Lord & Taylor brand to be introduced to Canada via a launch of 10-15 stores--in a market position slightly upscale of The Bay/Sears and slightly downscale of Holt Renfrew. While operating a flagship in Manhattan--L&T is primarily a suburban operator and the Canadian locations while likely be primarily suburban (although The Bay operates in two locations in Downtown Toronto, where a potential coversion opportunity exists). The new management says it intends to complete a refresh of both The Bay and Zellers, as well as bringing it's Fortunoff stores to Canada. Interestingly they made no mention of Home Outfitters--which they seem destined to divest--likely to Bed Bath & Beyond, which is just entering the Canadian market itself.

[hammergirl]

Could they be turning Home Outfitters into Fortunoff stores?

[raisethehammer]

fastcars, nobody is starting arguments. Just looking at the stats to show how the Hamilton market compares to others.

[fastcarsfreedom]

With all due respect, we must be reading a different thread...there were swipes taken and I took offense to it.

As for Fortunoff, seems unlikely...Fortunoff is significantly upscale--for one thing they operating the fine jewelry department in all U.S. L&T stores, this would presumably extend to Canadian L&T locations also. Fortunoff branded home fashions are also sold via L&T.

[omro]

Sorry, if the conversation offended anyone. I was the one who asked for statistics and comparisons and people's opinions.

The idea being to find out if it was possible to to see if anywhere with a lower average income had a nicer/better retail core than Hamilton. If so, then other factors were at play and could be learnt from. If anywhere with a similar average income had a much better retail core, then lessons could be learnt by the direct comparison. Etc.

I actually don't know any of the other areas that have been mentioned, I've not visited any of them, so I had no intention of criticising anywhere.

By the sounds of things, Hamilton and other area's retail cores do seem to be somewhat linked with their average income.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Fair enough omro. In fact, the problems that face downtown Hamilton are not unique--despite the fact that you will often read "onlyl in Hamilton" on this Forum--the struggles the core has faced (particularly in retail) are a common thread amongst most major North American cities.

Interesting to read the negative comments about Windsor for one glaring reason--it's often suggested that the construction of Jackson Square "ruined" downtown--and that this can by qualified to an extent by the construction of similar malls in cities such as London, Kitchener, etc. However, no such urban mall was built in Windsor...or St. Catherines for that matter--yet the same problems exist.

[raisethehammer]

I think part of the difference is the fact that Hamilton is bigger than all of those cities...much bigger than St Kitts and Windsor.
We had the second largest downtown retail district full of hustle and bustle outside of downtown TO.
the very fact that downtown Hamilton's retail problems today are similar to cities half our size or less makes the case for the destruction of great old shops, department stores and the downtown streetscape when JS was constructed.
Downtown Hamilton should be a shopping destination for people in St Kitts, Brantford etc.... not struggling at the same pace as those smaller cities to attract new retail.

[omro]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

the very fact that downtown Hamilton's retail problems today are similar to cities half our size or less makes the case for the destruction of great old shops, department stores and the downtown streetscape when JS was constructed.

Sorry, this sentence doesn't quite make sense to me.

Are you saying the construction of JS was a good or bad thing? Or are you being sarcastic? :-P

[raisethehammer]

I'm saying it was a bad thing. I think it helped kill downtown retail.
Hamilton used to function as a 'big city' with department stores, street retail etc.... JS and York Blvd killed it. Our downtown would be like a mini-TO today if we had of kept it intact instead of razing it for malls and our bloody one-way highways to whisk everyone out to the burbs.

[omro]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I'm saying it was a bad thing. I think it helped kill downtown retail.
Hamilton used to function as a 'big city' with department stores, street retail etc.... JS and York Blvd killed it. Our downtown would be like a mini-TO today if we had of kept it intact instead of razing it for malls and our bloody one-way highways to whisk everyone out to the burbs.

I thought that's what you meant, the "makes the case for" confused me a little

The shopping centre part of JS is ugly and rather pointless, it should go. I'll bet what was there was similar to what is further up the street.

It's a shame that it was ever built. The building opposite is an eye sore also. That whole area felt oppressive at night, which won't encourage people to be near it I'm sure. Which was odd, because the area to the East on King seemed quite pleasant at night with people out and about.

I would imagine what was there originally was far more attractive. Is there any hope for the past (if not the buildings, but at least the spirit) to be reclaimed in anyway, through future plans and vision?

[JT Jacobs]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I'm saying it was a bad thing. I think it helped kill downtown retail.
Hamilton used to function as a 'big city' with department stores, street retail etc.... JS and York Blvd killed it. Our downtown would be like a mini-TO today if we had of kept it intact instead of razing it for malls and our bloody one-way highways to whisk everyone out to the burbs.

Jake the Squire is outrageously bad simply because the city razed Old City Hall, as I understand it, to clear room for this mall.

Not all urban malls are bad things, though. TO's Eaton Centre is a pretty vibrant place. Calgary has several downtown shopping malls that are all respectable. Vancouver, too. The Downtown Thingy (this is going to stick, I swear) could be salvaged if they blew out the James ST wall and added shops and restaurants and patios--something that doesn't alienate the streetscape. Let's face it, James North is rocking; the DT is holding it back.

[omro]

Originally Posted by JT Jacobs

Jake the Squire is outrageously bad simply because the city razed Old City Hall, as I understand it, to clear room for this mall.

Not all urban malls are bad things, though. TO's Eaton Centre is a pretty vibrant place. Calgary has several downtown shopping malls that are all respectable. Vancouver, too. The Downtown Thingy (this is going to stick, I swear) could be salvaged if they blew out the James ST wall and added shops and restaurants and patios--something that doesn't alienate the streetscape. Let's face it, James North is rocking; the DT is holding it back.

I agree totally that downtown malls aren't a bad thing, some are very vibrant.

However, the design of this thingy is very bad.

It's dark brick, oppressive, and really dark inside. From the outside, when I first walked past, I didn't even know it was a mall, it just didn't look like one. I had to backtrack. It looks like an official building, rather than a public mall.

Couldn't it just all be knocked down?

[Jon Dalton]

I agree that Hamilton's problems are typical of industrial cities in the decline of industry. You could find many examples in the US if you don't think Windsor is a good comparison.

Downtown malls are a mistake of the 70's - one which other cities have taken steps to correct. Now that I'm on such a Quebec City kick, even they had a downtown mall of sorts. They put a roof over a whole section of street essentially turning it into an indoor shopping mall. When they removed it in the 90's and restored the streetscape, it became a very trendy street.

I often wonder walking around Jackson Square, as one cannot avoid it living downtown, if there would be any way to restore the grid of streets that originally ran through it. If they could demolish sections of hallway and lower the rooftop paths to street level we would end up with solid walls of 2-3 storey buildings. Probably wishful thinking.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by omro

Couldn't it just all be knocked down?

It's tough to knock down buildings owned by private companies. They really don't like it when you do that to their buildings.

[highwater]

Originally Posted by JT Jacobs

Jake the Squire is outrageously bad simply because the city razed Old City Hall, as I understand it, to clear room for this mall.

No, they razed the old city hall because it was too small, in poor repair, etc. All the same reasons they cited when trying to knock down our current city hall. We never learn.

http://www.myhamilton.ca/myhamilton/...ity+Hall+8.htm

[raisethehammer]

blow out the James St walls, the King St walls, the Bay St walls (Druxy's annoys me to no end - they whine and cry like babies if a new cafe opens, but they don't take advantage of their patio space on the rebuilt Bay St) and reconfigure York walls (market, library) to face the street.

[raisethehammer]

pretty tough to knock it all down....office towers and hotels are built right out the top of the thing(y).

[omro]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

pretty tough to knock it all down....office towers and hotels are built right out the top of the thing(y).

Shame

Could they not be convinced that by knocking it down and building one much better complex, that they would be better off, one and all?

Is there a way to knock down and/or remodel the shopping area without knocking the rest down? How about digging down to give it more internal space so it feels less oppressive like a mall inside a cave?

[SteelTown]

If I owned Yale Properties I would knock down the Bay Street facade and relocate all the food court over their, 2 stories food court, and have patio space from the first and second floor. All the white-collar jobs are closer to Bay St.

The facade for King St would be really tricky because of all the towers lined up on that street (Stelco, Sheraton and Standard Life).

I completely gut the front entrance and put up a glass wall.

If I also owned City Centre I would knock down the castle like facade for James St and either have a glass wall with store front retail or have a replica of old street front retail, to at least match the Lister Block that's across the street.