Red Hill Creek Expressway

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

'people' is a pretty broad generaliation.

Sorry, by "people" I meant "people that think this way" and there are lots. I don't mean "all humanind" or anything that broad.

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Secondly, the two trains of thought do not need to be, nor do I think they should be mutually exclusive.

I didn't mean to imply that they were... however there is a general attitude that favours large highway expenditures at the same time as low transit expenditures. You (and I) are among the minority that see that both types of expenditure are beneficial to all. If you believe the letters in the spec and many spec editorials (not the most unbiased source but one of th eonly ones we have), it's clear that transit spending is seen as a burden and road spending seen as a necessity for the common good. Those two ideas tend to go hand in hand.

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Coalmine makes a presumption that the highway only benfits part of the city's population.

I did not presume this, and I'm not sure how you read that from my post... I stated that both transit and highways have the possibility of creating benefits for the city as a whole. I gave both of these expenditures an equal opportunity to be assumed to be generally positive. The only presumption I made was that those who tend to support highway spending also tend not to support transit spending, or at least support it less vigorously.

However, regarding your list of positives of the highway, I have to say that every single positive attribute that you quote, except for the displacement of transport trucks, can also be attributed to transit improvements, however transit improvements have even more positives to add to the list. In a separate argument on another day we can discuss the merits of each of these, but that is beside my original point.

In the end, the point I am making is that we need to spend on all forms of transportation infrastructure EQUALLY which we absolutely do not do right now, and I don't understand how anyone can close themselves off to reality to such a point that they believe this imbalance is normal or correct.

I am not attacking highways. I am attacking the concept of "sky's the limit" for highway spending while scrooging out on transit.

[raisethehammer]

so far no good ideas on balancing funding here.....sad, we've accepted the status-quo "highways rule" mindset.

[fastcarsfreedom]

I actually made a reasonable effort to soften the tenor of my posts, to try to move toward consensus and idea sharing. I don't know what I was thinking--since I no longer live in Hamilton my opinions/thoughts/ideas are "moot" anyway. The fact of the matter is that the Hamilton's transit/highway funding priorities and issues relating to municipal budgets are common throughout Ontario--so I may in fact, surprisingly, have something of value to share here despite my ex-pat status...go figure.

Understand markbarbera--that when I was a Hamilton exurbanite, there was no amalgamation--there were still two-tiers of government--and full HSR funding was limited to Hamilton as well as the City of Stoney Creek and the Town of Dundas. Since amalgamation--for better or worse--it might be easier to justify, as the past political boundaries no longer exist. However, I would argue that if I lived in a jurisdiction that didn't have access to schools (theoretically) I could make a pretty valid argument that I shouldn't be funding a system that I am not able to access.

Perhaps there is a "real" Hamiltonian on this Forum who could pose my question again so that it might be given appropriate debate.

[raisethehammer]

I'm lost...I thought we were all looking for answers to Coalmine's question?? What question are you referring to fastcars??

[markbarbera]

fastcars, I think your opinions are given more consideration than they deserve in this forum, be they made from locals or from 'outsiders'.

I cannot help but notice that a good chunk of the highly argumentative posts in the Hamilton threads are written by folks who have no real interest in this city, save for a passing fancy while surfing the internet. I have reviewed all the posts you have made on SSP, and they all focus on Hamilton-related issues whereas you completely ignore any discussion threads about your actual hometown. This puzzles me. I can understand a posting or two in a neighbouring city's thread, but practically all of your 200+ SSP posts are about a city that you do not reside in. Surely it's not just to partake in Ontario-wide municipal issues as you suggest. If that was the case you would be posting in other Ontario cities' threads as well, most notably your own home town's thread. What exactly is your game here anyway?

[flar]

^^his heart is in Hamilton. I, for one, like to see a wide range of opinions on here. The best way to gain insight into your own views is to hash them out with other viewpoints. It's no fun and unrealistic if everyone agrees with each other.

[fastcarsfreedom]

What's my "game"? Are you serious? I'm a "play-a" now, am I? I get more credit than I deserve? Why are you buttering my bread like this--are you trying to stroke my ego?

In all fairness, I have made contributions outside the Hamilton thread--in Windsor namely--though the thread was/is generally not nearly as active as Hamilton's--I've also posted in the Niagara Falls thread--but then again, your investigative skills have already confirmed that for you.

If it's of interest to you--I am a regular contributor at www.detroityes.com which is a bi-national forum dealing with issues in Southeastern Michigan and Southwestern Ontario--I use the same screename there as I do here, so I'm easy to find. I also contribute at internationalmetropolis.com which as a Forum relating mostly to architecture, and specific to Windsor. I post at some sports and political sites also--do you need full disclosure on that too?

I assure you--born at St. Joe's, raised in Flamborough, schooled in Dundas--that my interest in Hamilton is not a passing one. I'm sure in reviewing my 200+ posts you now realize that many of my posts are in fact, not argumentative at all.

And now I ask myself, why am I put in a position of trying to defend myself here?

[fastcarsfreedom]

Sorry RTH--I asked for feedback on transit funding models but was gently told to stick my thumb in my ass by another participant because I don't live in Hamilton. My original post was in response to the issues raised by coalmine. Hope that clarifies.

[SteelTown]

The Skyway Bridge is closed today. All Niagara bound traffic is going along 403/Linc/Red Hill/QEW.

We'll probably see a lot of that happening in the future.

[DC83]

^^ a transport flipped ON the bridge. Looks like it almost went over the edge :s Scary!
check www.thespec.com , it's on the front-page of the site.

[go_leafs_go02]

playing with the traffic cameras. Looks like the QEW has been shut off at the RHVP...

click the centennial parkway/QEW interchange camera.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tra...on/camhome.htm

I drove over the LINC less than an hour ago..it didn't seem any busier than before.

I live right by the linc..so i'm going to go hop up on the fence and take a look right now...

it's moving fine...seems even a bit quieter than usual.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

playing with the traffic cameras. Looks like the QEW has been shut off at the RHVP...

click the centennial parkway/QEW interchange camera.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tra...on/camhome.htm

I drove over the LINC less than an hour ago..it didn't seem any busier than before.

I live right by the linc..so i'm going to go hop up on the fence and take a look right now...

it's moving fine...seems even a bit quieter than usual.

hahaha Thanks for the update!

Here's my experiences in the East-End re: RHVP so far:

Centennial Pkwy - 100% turn-around. Almost no traffic! I can actually walk across the road without needing a cross-walk!

Barton/Queenston - complete chaos. I don't know if it's b/c Niagara-bound QEWers have to get off at Woodward and get back onto the RHVP at either Barton or Queenston, but these two streets are crazy-congested!
It has added an extra 3-5 mins onto my bus ride home every day (along Queenston).

[go_leafs_go02]

update..looking at cameras..accident has been cleaned up, but highway is still closed. Surprised all of QEW Toronto bound has to exit at Centennial/Red Hill, instead of the usual detour using the Eastport Bridge.

QEW Niagara bound traffic is using the typical detour, being Eastport.

[SteelTown]

On CH today they said 50,000 vehicles are off Centennial Parkway now. About 40,000 vehicles use the Red Hill. Nearly 70,000 vehicles for the Linc. Along the Red Hill there's a strip that actually counts the number of cars passing by daily.

[HAMRetrofit]

How many vehicles are off of King and Main? Did they mention that at all?

[matt602]

Why would vehicles be off of streets that don't travel in the same direction?

[HAMRetrofit]

The highway was supposed to create a ring road around the city and alleviate truck hauls through the downtown.

Perhaps vehicle counts will be higher for the eastern portions of King Street.

[raisethehammer]

we'll have to wait until it's done though for proper counts. the ramp from TO isn't open yet.

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

How many vehicles are off of King and Main? Did they mention that at all?

Like maybe 10?

[SteelTown]

My parents are looking at buying a house at Summit Park, yea I know, and I saw one of their papers and it shows the proposed extention of the Red Hill Creek espressway.

For some reason it showed the expressway extending from Linc to Rymal.