Should we be renaming places and things in Ottawa-Gatineau? - Page 9

GoTrans · #**161** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 3:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

As we remove commemorations relating to important historic figures, the publicity surrounding these removals encourages a predominant one dimensional view of history. So, Sir John A. MacDonald's main achievement becomes the creation of Residential Schools. That has already been achieved with Sir Hector Langevin, and we are well on our way to having a similar view of Egerton Ryerson. Has this really encouraged a deeper view of these people's lives? I don't think so.

We can argue to the contrary, but highly publicized removal of commemorations discourages people from examining history themselves. These people have been discredited. There is nothing more worth knowing.

I don't think that people will forget that Sir John A MacDonald was also responsible to a large extent for achieving Confederation and building the CPR. Everybody is tarnished in one way or another.

harls · #**162** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 7:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Of course. We crazy little man in Russia and the overly "woke" assume everyone, anyone and anything with ties to Russia (or a Russian name) is bad.

Even the whole idea of renaming Charlotte to Zelensky. First off, not a fan of renaming century+ old street. Furthermore, Zelensky is a hero now, but let's wait until the war is over and we have a full picture of his legacy before considering honouring him as such (he may very well have a corruption or sex scandal we don't know about yet).

We compulsively go with current "trends" that sometimes proves to be the wrong move in the long run.

Agree 100%

Name the street and live with it. Same goes with statues, monuments, urinals, etc.

The same shit goes with trying to get rid of Anglo names from street signs (Amherst, Montcalm) under the guise of making things more French. History is written already, this is just a useless suppression.

Acajack · #**163** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 11:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by harls

Agree 100%

Name the street and live with it. Same goes with statues, monuments, urinals, etc.

The same shit goes with trying to get rid of Anglo names from street signs (Amherst, Montcalm) under the guise of making things more French. History is written already, this is just a useless suppression.

Montcalm is not an anglo name.

Amherst is, though most of the time his name is replaced by an Indigenous name, not a French one.

Acajack · #**164** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 11:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This is how things get started, when facts are not quite correct. The MS St. Louis attempted to land on June 7, 1939 and was refused by the Canadian government. This was prior to the beginning of World War II and a couple of years before the Holocaust really got going in Europe and long before it was generally known in Canada.

We can argue that Mackenzie King should have allowed the Jews on the ship to land, but to call it an infamous decision is over the top. The Canadian government could not predict the subsequent outcome.

The issue of Japanese-Canadian internments was another matter.

Concentration camps had existed for several years and government intel on that would definitely have been accessible to King.

In any event, as I said I don't even necessarily think the estate's name should be changed.

Acajack · #**165** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 11:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayBuoy

I struggle to understand how cancel culture or political correctness are relevant ideas here.

On the first point, not sure how we can be ostracizing someone dead - what with streets usually named after the formerly living. Also, people have been critical of many of the figures in question since long before the term 'cancel culture' was coined. Is all criticism 'cancel culture' now? Can you please elaborate on how critical examination of historical persons is cancel culture?

Street names aren't history, it's just an honour. Having a street named after you won't stop people from forgetting who you are, and neither will NOT having a street named after you prevent you from being remembered in history. Its the same with statues, buildings etc.

I would appreciate examples of how this NCC selection process or city efforts to rename streets is biased.

Street names are most definitely an "honour".

Acajack · #**166** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 11:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoTrans

I don't think that people will forget that Sir John A MacDonald was also responsible to a large extent for achieving Confederation and building the CPR. Everybody is tarnished in one way or another.

Strongly disagree with this. Regardless of what impact renaming the parkway will have, SJA's legacy is already completely dominated by the image of a racist, genocidal figure.

You can't name anything for him or honour him anymore.

As a francophone I am actually not a big fan of SJA personally but these facts cannot be denied.

phil235 · #**167** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 12:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Strongly disagree with this. Regardless of what impact renaming the parkway will have, SJA's legacy is already completely dominated by the image of a racist, genocidal figure.

Not a fan either, and think that he was quite likely a bad and corrupt person. But isn't this kind of indicative of the problem? Regardless of anything else he did, doesn't founding the country have to rank as far and away the biggest and most important part of his legacy? Most public figures have complex legacies, and I see it as distorting history to focus only on terrible policies. Whatever he was as a person (and let's be honest, we'll never know for sure), he did accomplish some incredibly important things that should be recognized.

Acajack · #**168** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 12:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil235

Not a fan either, and think that he was quite likely a bad and corrupt person. But isn't this kind of indicative of the problem? Regardless of anything else he did, doesn't founding the country have to rank as far and away the biggest and most important part of his legacy? Most public figures have complex legacies, and I see it as distorting history to focus only on terrible policies. Whatever he was as a person (and let's be honest, we'll never know for sure), he did accomplish some incredibly important things that should be recognized.

We are on the same page, but his name is still mud.

There is still for the moment stuff named for him like a court(?) building but we'll see how that goes.

The idea of a capital with nothing named for the founder of the country seems weird to me.

Unless you go through a radical transformation like South Africa did.

Tesladom · #**169** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 12:35 PM**

While I don't necessarily agree that we should rename everything, many places, sites, mountains rivers etc were named after people who didn't really play much of a role in shaping our country or that place (good or bad). References to Champlain are merited IMO, but naming Mount Logan to honour a geologist is dumb (or even worse calling it Mount Trudeau). The US renamed McKinley to Denali, that was a good move
Likewise Queen Charlotte Islands changed name to their ancestral name of Haida Gwaii, Frobisher Bay (city) renamed Iqaluit etc...
Places are named after British Royalty that do not belong, I support getting rid of that.

On the flip side, history doesn't see Colonel By in a positive light, but he was still very instrumental in the creation and shaping of our city

phil235 · #**170** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 12:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

We are on the same page, but his name is still mud.

There is still for the moment stuff named for him like a court(?) building but we'll see how that goes.

The idea of a capital with nothing named for the founder of the country seems weird to me.

Unless you go through a radical transformation like South Africa did.

Got it.

Acajack · #**171** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 12:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesladom

While I don't necessarily agree that we should rename everything, many places, sites, mountains rivers etc were named after people who didn't really play much of a role in shaping our country or that place (good or bad). References to Champlain are merited IMO, but naming Mount Logan to honour a geologist is dumb (or even worse calling it Mount Trudeau). The US renamed McKinley to Denali, that was a good move
Likewise Queen Charlotte Islands changed name to their ancestral name of Haida Gwaii, Frobisher Bay (city) renamed Iqaluit etc...
Places are named after British Royalty that do not belong, I support getting rid of that.

On the flip side, history doesn't see Colonel By in a positive light, but he was still very instrumental in the creation and shaping of our city

This also seems sensible to me.

harls · #**172** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 9:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Montcalm is not an anglo name.

Amherst is, though most of the time his name is replaced by an Indigenous name, not a French one.

Yeah sorry, brain fart on the Montcalm name.

Acajack · #**173** Posted **Apr 12, 2022, 9:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by harls

Yeah sorry, brain fart on the Montcalm name.

As a kid I always wondered, if it was a French name, why there wasn't an E at the end of Montcalm...

Truenorth00 · #**174** Posted **Apr 13, 2022, 1:06 AM**

Can we get the Ottawa River and Rockcliffe Parkways back?

I always thought SJAM was dumb especially when most other parkways after named for geographic location or landmarks in this city.

waterloowarrior · #**175** Posted **Apr 13, 2022, 1:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Can we get the Ottawa River and Rockcliffe Parkways back?

I always thought SJAM was dumb especially when most other parkways after named for geographic location or landmarks in this city.

I agree, I thought it was dumb idea to rename them in the first place. Although I wouldn't mind renaming Aviation Parkway since there is already an Airport Parkway.

Acajack · #**176** Posted **Apr 13, 2022, 3:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Can we get the Ottawa River and Rockcliffe Parkways back?

I always thought SJAM was dumb especially when most other parkways after named for geographic location or landmarks in this city.

No, not Ottawa River. Rockcliffe would be fine though.

Not sure about your claim though. Think of Queen Elizabeth and Colonel By.

DEWLine · #**177** Posted **Apr 14, 2022, 8:50 PM**

And now we have the impending Haiku Street.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...!4d-75.7492088

kwoldtimer · #**178** Posted **Apr 14, 2022, 10:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEWLine

And now we have the impending Haiku Street.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...!4d-75.7492088

?

rocketphish · #**179** Posted **Apr 14, 2022, 10:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEWLine

And now we have the impending Haiku Street.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...!4d-75.7492088

Haiku Street spreads a
suburb littered with townhomes.
Welcome to the hood.

lrt's friend · #**180** Posted **Apr 15, 2022, 1:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

I agree, I thought it was dumb idea to rename them in the first place. Although I wouldn't mind renaming Aviation Parkway since there is already an Airport Parkway.

Definitely, the Aviation Parkway should be returned to its original name, the Eastern Parkway.

Streets should not be renamed except when we want them renamed.