CHICAGO | Lincoln Yards

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

I'm not arguing for auto centric development at all. I'm saying it's a bad location because transit is not convenient.

Do you believe Toyota Park is in a better location as far as transit convenience is concerned?

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

Again, who cares? Fuck them.

Should Wrigley Field be demolished because it's not easy to get to by car?

It's strange to me that someone is arguing in favor of auto-centric development here.

How do you propose 20,000 people realistically arrive to a stadium at Lincoln Yards?

[Via Chicago]

are we really expecting 20k crowds for minor league soccer? the sox dont even draw that on average

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

this could have all been solved with just letting the Fire continue to play at Soldier Field. its a public facility after all, but pretty sure the Bears were the ones who were crying about them tearing up "their" field

my memory is that it was the Fire who were clamoring for their own soccer-specific facility.

that's how they ended up at toyota park. they were willing to do anything (like sign a 30 year lease) and go ANYWHERE (like the middle of nowhere wilderness of bridgeview) to get their own soccer-specific stadium.

in hindsight, what a bone-headed mistake that was.

[Via Chicago]

i dunno, i do recall disputes around the fact that the field was torn up after Fire games and the bears definitely werent sorry to see them go. is there any reason they couldnt just come back to Soldier Field after their lease is up?

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

How do you propose 20,000 people realistically arrive to a stadium at Lincoln Yards?

How do 42,000 arrive at Wrigley Field?

Whatever your answer to that is, is my answer to your question.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

How do 42,000 arrive at Wrigley Field?

Whatever your answer to that is, is my answer to your question.

Cool...so you have no intelligent response.

I take it you've never been to Wrigley Field or the Lincoln Yards site or both...Stevie Wonder could see they are vastly different.

[Freefall]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

How do 42,000 arrive at Wrigley Field?

Whatever your answer to that is, is my answer to your question.

You want them to walk from the Addision red line? lol

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

How do you propose 20,000 people realistically arrive to a stadium at Lincoln Yards?

There is a lot of traffic in the area today, but the Kennedy runs right next to Lincoln Yards so that would likely bring a lot of people. The brown, blue and red lines are within walking distance (around 1 mile). Metra is next door.

The North Branch framework plan also calls for additional bridges, more lanes and improved transit access for the surrounding area.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Cool...so you have no intelligent response.

I take it you've never been to Wrigley Field or the Lincoln Yards site or both...Stevie Wonder could see they are vastly different.

Instead of throwing unwarranted personal insults, how about you explain why you see them as being vastly different.

This is what it looks like to me -

Lincoln Yards has:
Blue Line
Red Line
Brown Line
2 Metra Lines
Water Taxi
606
Next to Expressway
20,000 fewer seats than Wrigley
135,000 people living within a 20 minute walk

Wrigley Field has:
Red Line
Proper street grid
135,000 people living within a 20 minute walk

Toyota Park has:
A big parking lot
20,000 people living within a 20 minute walk



In addition to that, we don't even know all of the infrastructure and road improvements that Sterling Bay has in mind for the site.

How can people argue that Lincoln Yards is not well connected by transit but Wrigley Field or Toyota Park is?

[Freefall]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

How can people argue that Lincoln Yards is not well connected by transit but Wrigley Field or Toyota Park is?

Because there's a big difference between being right on top of an L stop and being a 15-20 minute walk from one. And nobody is arguing Toyota Park is convenient to transit.

[nomarandlee]

Meh, can't say I'm really too excited about a 2nd rank soccer facility to be a centerpiece of the LY development likely with a lot of exposed concrete. Would rather have open park space or smaller scale programming that will be used more than 40 days per year 3hours at a time.

I look at the development of the riverfront a bit as a mini-version of the lakefront. And if we could do it all over again I wouldn't have Soldier Field sit right on the lake.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by Freefall

Because there's a big difference between being right on top of an L stop and being a 15-20 minute walk from one. And nobody is arguing Toyota Park is convenient to transit.

That would hold true if it was a single L stop and single L line in both situations. But it's not, it's 3 L stops and 3 L lines close to Lincoln Yards. And two Metra lines that stop at the site itself.

[mark0]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Meh, can't say I'm really too excited about a 2nd rank soccer facility to be a centerpiece of the LY development likely with a lot of exposed concrete. Would rather have open park space or smaller scale programming that will be used more than 40 days per year 3hours at a time.

I look at the development of the riverfront a bit as a mini-version of the lakefront. And if we could do it all over again I wouldn't have Soldier Field sit right on the lake.

Exactly my sentiments too. We have so little natural resources here besides the lake and river, and the river really is more like a sluggish drainage channel, that we should restore and preserve as much as possible for recreational use. Hell, Id even be in favor of a land clearing low lying depopulated neighborhoods to restore the natural wetlands that existed here before settlement and move those residents into other depopulated neighborhoods in order to stem the blight. We could gain urbanity where needed while restoring wetlands, Oak savanahs and flood mitigation with one policy. It would also lessen the water diversion from the Lake Michigan watershed.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by mark0

Hell, Id even be in favor of a land clearing low lying depopulated neighborhoods to restore the natural wetlands that existed here before settlement and move those residents into other depopulated neighborhoods in order to stem the blight. We could gain urbanity where needed while restoring wetlands, Oak savanahs and flood mitigation with one policy. It would also lessen the water diversion from the Lake Michigan watershed.

I think this would be great, but it will never happen.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Cool...so you have no intelligent response.

I take it you've never been to Wrigley Field or the Lincoln Yards site or both...Stevie Wonder could see they are vastly different.

I feel like standing on my podium of transportation psychology but people always find a way. Kind of like the people that walk a mile to their cars who do decide to drive to see the cubs.

As part of the planning process for anything in this city, people get so hung up on the details of traffic, parking and transportation. Well traffic and lack of parking are inherent “problems” of dense urban areas. And the transportation bit can come later if it’s needed. The fact this facility will be embedded between two very populated areas means they’ll get quite a few people (including families) walking there. You also got bikeshare, buses and a not-so-far walk to the brown line. Perhaps some garages on-site for office workers can handle limited parking after hours for those that choose to drive.

I realize there’s no direct connections to the proposed stadium, but a 10-15 minute walk is something people can usually deal with. It’s at least a more pleasant walk than crossing acres of asphalt at most stadiums.

[MayorOfChicago]

Originally Posted by Freefall

Because there's a big difference between being right on top of an L stop and being a 15-20 minute walk from one. And nobody is arguing Toyota Park is convenient to transit.

Yes, unfortunately that's the biggest problem I have with Lincoln Yards, although overall i'm very excited about the development. The transit currently just sucks except for the Metra.

The only viable one for people on a routine basis without getting too upset is the Brown/Purple at Armitage is a half mile away. Still though you couldn't even really say that stop "serves" the development, it's just far enough that it's a pain in the ass to walk back and forth for it if you're doing it every day. Sure, for some it would be fine, it would be fine with me, but if you're looking at a massive multi-use development with thousands or tens of thousands of people coming in - Armitage is just a handy thing to have nearby - it isn't close enough to officially "serve" this development.

Blue and Red lines - yeah you can do it, but they're both 1+ miles away. It's possible and people can and will, but I wouldn't sell the development, stadium or to any Amazon workers as being served by the Blue or Red. Big stretch if you're trying to convince people this is totally handy to use every day. At this point you have people that will do it, and then a TON of people who will just say screw it and grab an uber because that mile to mile and a half at the end is just a bit too much after getting to the train and riding it as well.

I REALLY hope they do the downtown connector or transitway or some other form of official, FREQUENT, rail service directly to the heart of the development. The L lines can augment it for people that live in the city, but still those coming on the blue or red are going to roll their eyes at that mile walk through a random neighborhood just to get to the edges of the huge development. In a world class city it should have direct service - I hope they build that!

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

This is what it looks like to me -

Lincoln Yards has:
Blue Line
Red Line
Brown Line
2 Metra Lines
Water Taxi
606
Next to Expressway
20,000 fewer seats than Wrigley
135,000 people living within a 20 minute walk

Blue Line and the Brown are each more than a mile's walk. Metra is the closest at a half mile and Red line at 3/4.
The water taxi is a joke.
The 606 doesn't get there
The Expressway if precisely why it is an auto-centric project
and
There are currently about 40,000 people in a one mile radius of LY. If they max out the MLA for the LY acreage it might reach 75000.

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

Blue Line and the Brown are each more than a mile's walk.

Not quite, it's about the same distance as the Addison Red Line station to Southport and the Ashland stop on Green/Pink to the United Center.

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Yeah, this location really isn't all that bad for transit. The narrative here by most that it is has always been silly to me, but I've never seen anyone else raise the issue so I just decided to not die on that hill.