Canadian Library Thread

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

Meanwhile, in Regina.

'Serious' Injury Leads to Temporary Closure of Regina Library Central Location
David Prisciak, CTVNews - June 14, 2023

Now you can witness stabbings at the library. Bring the whole family, it's sure to be educational.

Whoa. Haven’t seen that in Calgary’s central library and it’s beside the drop in centre. Then again they have security at the door. That seems more like Winnipeg than Regina.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Whoa. Haven’t seen that in Calgary’s central library and it’s beside the drop in centre. Then again they have security at the door. That seems more like Winnipeg than Regina.

We have security at the doors at the downtown one.

I'm waiting for bag checks and metal detectors at the library and outdoor downtown pool. Council and the province need to figure out some way to combat poverty, drugs, homelessness, and youth gangs.

[esquire]

The truth of the matter is that libraries have been allowed by well meaning staff to turn into drop in centres for the downtown population. It's driven by good intentions, but it brings with it a lot of issues that libraries are simply not equipped nor staffed to handle. Winnipeg had its own stabbing death at the library back in December, and in spite of that there is still hand wringing over whether basic security measures are appropriate or exclusionary.

When I was a kid I used to go by myself to the downtown library and browse, read, etc. I would say that these days, it is not really a place for children. The character has really changed over the last 25 years.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

The truth of the matter is that libraries have been allowed by well meaning staff to turn into drop in centres for the downtown population. It's driven by good intentions, but it brings with it a lot of issues that libraries are simply not equipped nor staffed to handle. Winnipeg had its own stabbing death at the library back in December, and in spite of that there is still hand wringing over whether basic security measures are appropriate or exclusionary.

When I was a kid I used to go by myself to the downtown library and browse, read, etc. I would say that these days, it is not really a place for children. The character has really changed over the last 25 years.

Holy cow are you ever my alter ego!

I used to do that too, though when I was 14-16.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Holy cow are you ever my alter ego!

I used to do that too, though when I was 14-16.

Yeah, when I say "kid" I would have been a teenager, around that 13-16 range when I started going by myself. But when I was younger than that, my parents would take me there whenever I nagged them enough, and I'd explore the place. I find my kids aren't as interested in the library though, which blows my mind as it was one of my favourite places to go when I was younger.

I guess we have uncovered a few commonalities over the years!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, when I say "kid" I would have been a teenager, around that 13-16 range when I started going by myself. But when I was younger than that, my parents would take me there whenever I nagged them enough, and I'd explore the place. I find my kids aren't as interested in the library though, which blows my mind as it was one of my favourite places to go when I was younger.

I guess we have uncovered a few commonalities over the years!

Going to the library downtown on the bus was one of my favourite rainy-day activities back then.

My kids are older than yours - very young adults now.

They were very interested in the library until they were about 10.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by esquire

The truth of the matter is that libraries have been allowed by well meaning staff to turn into drop in centres for the downtown population. It's driven by good intentions, but it brings with it a lot of issues that libraries are simply not equipped nor staffed to handle. Winnipeg had its own stabbing death at the library back in December, and in spite of that there is still hand wringing over whether basic security measures are appropriate or exclusionary.

When I was a kid I used to go by myself to the downtown library and browse, read, etc. I would say that these days, it is not really a place for children. The character has really changed over the last 25 years.

I'm sure the library staff don't want that kind of activity on the premises but their hands might be tied. And it isn't so easy to simply say this is happening exclusively at libraries. I have a family member who manages Chapters stores and the tales he's told me over the years blew me away. Knife fights in the bathroom requiring hazmat teams to come clean up. Pedophiles wandering the store with cameras on sticks to look up skirts. Etc. Etc.

[esquire]

^ I take your point that misbehaviour is everywhere. But Chapters is pretty categorical when it comes to wanting customers only. They don't throw out a blanket invite to homeless people to come inside and stay warm/cool (depending on the season). And that's fine, it's a noble sentiment to want to bring in street people, but libraries aren't really set up and staffed to handle that.

Libraries, at least around here, threw their doors wide open not just to library users, i.e. people interested in reading, but to absolutely everyone regardless of what they wanted to be in there for. And now the entire community has to deal with the consequences.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I take your point that misbehaviour is everywhere. But Chapters is pretty categorical when it comes to wanting customers only. They don't throw out a blanket invite to homeless people to come inside and stay warm/cool (depending on the season). And that's fine, it's a noble sentiment to want to bring in street people, but libraries aren't really set up and staffed to handle that.

Libraries, at least around here, threw their doors wide open not just to library users, i.e. people interested in reading, but to absolutely everyone regardless of what they wanted to be in there for. And now the entire community has to deal with the consequences.

It's a slippery slope and difficult to enforce who is an 'intended library user' though. How does one qualify? It's a public space for all citizens. I know I don't often visit the library to get books but for my toddler to interact and play in the kid zones. I agree there is a homeless problem though. Calgary's central library has some sketchiness around the bathrooms and chairs that have been ruined by an uncleanable stench. My wife doesn't feel comfortable going to that one cause of the homeless people there.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

It's a slippery slope and difficult to enforce who is an 'intended library user' though. How does one qualify? It's a public space for all citizens. I know I don't often visit the library to get books but for my toddler to interact and play in the kid zones. I agree there is a homeless problem though. Calgary's central library has some sketchiness around the bathrooms and chairs that have been ruined by an uncleanable stench. My wife doesn't feel comfortable going to that one cause of the homeless people there.

A public space for all citizens to do what, exactly, though? I would say that a library has a purpose. It is a place to read, find information, etc. It shouldn't be an all purpose hangout akin to a drop in centre or homeless shelter.

Alternatively, if a city wants their library to be that, then staff it up accordingly with appropriate security measures, security guards, cleaning budgets, social work resources, etc.

[Nouvellecosse]

The central library here also encourages people to come in and use it as a more general public space. I'm not sure if there have been any similar issues since I don't go that often. I don't recall seeing anything too sketchy the times I have gone though. It really is a challenge when most cities in NA have so few indoor "public" spaces including washrooms with most being privately owned and often restricted to paying customers. I agree that it's a great goal for spaces to be inclusive for all, but if some people are preventing others from enjoying the space that needs to be addressed. It's not inclusive if people don't feel safe.

In principle though, there's nothing wrong with a building that has one formally stated purpose being used for other functions. Historically, the church was the centre of Black communities in NS. It was always open and used not just for religious services but as a general public space. In other communities it was places like the schoolhouse or fire hall.

[J.OT13]

Ottawa has recently been looking to hire more security at certain libraries for these sorts of issues.

I do wonder if that was part of the reason for chosen site of the new library; still central, but outside the traditional Downtown.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by esquire

A public space for all citizens to do what, exactly, though? I would say that a library has a purpose. It is a place to read, find information, etc. It shouldn't be an all purpose hangout akin to a drop in centre or homeless shelter.

Alternatively, if a city wants their library to be that, then staff it up accordingly with appropriate security measures, security guards, cleaning budgets, social work resources, etc.

Calgary's new central library has recording studios, meeting rooms and other work areas in addition to a playground and 2 coffee shops. Also a theatre. Not all for reading. In fact it was pitched as a community hub. Again, doing crack in the bathroom wasn't part of that vision obviously, but it is difficult to enforce any reason for being there. Also lots of people come to gawk at the architecture.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

The central library here also encourages people to come in and use it as a more general public space. I'm not sure if there have been any similar issues since I don't go that often. I don't recall seeing anything too sketchy the times I have gone though. It really is a challenge when most cities in NA have so few indoor "public" spaces including washrooms with most being privately owned and often restricted to paying customers. I agree that it's a great goal for spaces to be inclusive for all, but if some people are preventing others from enjoying the space that needs to be addressed. It's not inclusive if people don't feel safe.

In principle though, there's nothing wrong with a building that has one formally stated purpose being used for other functions. Historically, the church was the centre of Black communities in NS. It was always open and used not just for religious services but as a general public space. In other communities it was places like the schoolhouse or fire hall.

In Toronto there's a tiny, old swimming pool in this city-run community centre that everybody knows is just used as a showering facility for the local homeless population. I don't exactly know the history of the place. It looks a bit too 'modern' (it looks like it was built in the 1950s) to come from an era when even the poorest didn't have hot water showers in their homes.

It's been a while since I've swam at a downtown community centre (I've never swam there), but I have a feeling this place helps keep the homeless out of the showers at the other downtown pools.

It's probably a controversial thought that reminds people of segregation, but it wouldn't be bad for both the homeless and the rest of us if there were separate, parallel facilities like these. So, instead of libraries, have some kind of "resource centre" that has computers and a social worker and some kind of bathing/free laundry facility, but isn't necessarily a shelter.

[WhipperSnapper]

You'd often see the transient population making use of the Woodbine Bathing Station Toronto in the 1980s. I can't imagine what the place looks like now if it's still open.

Must be open. It was closed during the lockdown and people just went wherever they stood. Reminded my of Amsterdam. Urinal buckets on the beach. Just whip it out and go.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

In Toronto there's a tiny, old swimming pool in this city-run community centre that everybody knows is just used as a showering facility for the local homeless population. I don't exactly know the history of the place. It looks a bit too 'modern' (it looks like it was built in the 1950s) to come from an era when even the poorest didn't have hot water showers in their homes.

It's been a while since I've swam at a downtown community centre (I've never swam there), but I have a feeling this place helps keep the homeless out of the showers at the other downtown pools.

It's probably a controversial thought that reminds people of segregation, but it wouldn't be bad for both the homeless and the rest of us if there were separate, parallel facilities like these. So, instead of libraries, have some kind of "resource centre" that has computers and a social worker and some kind of bathing/free laundry facility, but isn't necessarily a shelter.

Funny, I've gone by there countless times and never noticed that it was a pool! Must be a tiny one.

What you're describing sounds like drop-in centres, which yeah, are probably something we could use more of. The challenge there though is that those inevitably tend to attract some problematic behaviours due to the demographics they serve, and for that reason can be a tough sell in many communities - a challenge that common amenities like libraries & pools don't have, even if they end up serving the same purpose.

[O-tacular]

Calgary's Drop in Centre is where the homeless come from to our Central library. It's basically across the street.

[J.OT13]

Progress in Ottawa. I'll try to wait until the jack posts are out before posting the next update.

Originally Posted by SL123

Not a spectacular picture, but I thought it was neat that the new central library was visible from the Gatineau side of Zibi.

I didnt think it would

Originally Posted by Harley613

Originally Posted by zzptichka

I like this view at it from The Pumphouse:

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

she's peeking through downtown from the start of the slater


https://i.imgur.com/Yyca7vD.jpg

[J.OT13]

Update on Ottawa' new Central Library, Adisoke. Jack posts are coming off.

Originally Posted by Harley613

It's great to see some of the jacks come off and see the actual shape taking form!

[J.OT13]

Progress on Ottawa's library.


https://adisoke.ca/news-post/adisoke...cember-6-2023/

And this one I took this morning: