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View Poll Results: Which city will reach 1 million first?
Winnipeg 89 76.72%
Québec 27 23.28%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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  #161  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2023, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Masoliantekw View Post
That is not true at all. You forget about large neighbourhoods such as Saint-Roch, Saint-Jean-Baptiste, Montcalm, Limoilou, Saint-Sacrement, and even Saint-Sauveur. More largely, in the metro area, Levis/Lauzon also have some interesting architecture and quite large heritage districts. And Quebec (the city alone) also has many smaller centres hidden within its suburban fabric such as Beauport, Charlesbourg (Trait-Carré), Cap-Rouge, Sillery, Montmorency, Courville... The metropolitan area sure has a fair amount of crappy typical north-american developments, but it's not as you describe it. Will anything I just wrote make Quebec reach 1M before Winnipeg? Not at all. Winnipeg will probably win this. I just wanted to clarify the point you were trying to make...
You’re right. I didn’t mean that as a criticism of Quebec. It’s not just inside the walls but neighbourhoods around it.

My point is that Winnipeg has unique historic urban neighbourhoods too but we don’t take advantage of them. We have more century old houses than any city in the country as an example. But the city’s image doesn’t reflect that.

Last edited by trueviking; Jul 5, 2023 at 6:20 AM.
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  #162  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2023, 11:41 PM
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Speaking of comparisons, this got be wondering about some of the largest suburbs; when or if Surrey will surpass Mississauga in population. Mississauga actually lost population between 2014 and 2016.

Quote:
The 2021 census listed Mississauga as the slowest-growing urban centre in Canada with the city's population actually declining compared to the 2016 census. The city's population declined by 0.5 per cent over the past five years from 721,599 in the 2016 census to 717,961 in the most recent conducted last year. Feb 18, 2022
But some of the figures being reported are inconsistent.

Quote:
Mississauga's 2016 year end population was 766,000. The city's population is expected to grow to 930,800 by 2051.
Surrey is expected to have a population of 884,380 by 2051, and eventually it should pass Mississauga. Both these suburban cities might outperform Winnipeg and Quebec City, given enough time.
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  #163  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Pellimo View Post
www.populationstat.com



Winnipeg

Population in Urban Area, now
833,084
World: 727th North America: 94th Canada: 8th
Population in City Area, 2022-08-11
749,607
World: 495th North America: 18th Canada: 6th
Winnipeg Urban Area Population Graph

YEAR TOTAL POPULATION
1950 345,000
1951 355,000
1952 366,000
1953 377,000
1954 388,000
1955 400,000
1956 412,000
1957 424,000
1958 437,000
1959 450,000
1960 463,000
1961 477,000
1962 483,000
1963 489,000
1964 496,000
1965 503,000
1966 509,000
1967 515,000
1968 522,000
1969 528,000
1970 534,000
1971 541,000
1972 548,000
1973 556,000
1974 563,000
1975 571,000
1976 578,000
1977 579,000
1978 580,000
1979 580,000
1980 581,000
1981 583,000
1982 591,000
1983 600,000
1984 608,000
1985 617,000
1986 626,000
1987 633,000
1988 640,000
1989 647,000
1990 654,000
1991 661,000
1992 662,000
1993 663,000
1994 665,000
1995 666,000
1996 667,000
1997 669,000
1998 671,000
1999 673,000
2000 675,000
2001 677,000
2002 681,000
2003 684,000
2004 688,000
2005 691,000
2006 696,000
2007 703,000
2008 710,000
2009 717,000
2010 724,000
2011 731,000
2012 741,000
2013 750,000
2014 760,000
2015 770,000
2016 780,000
2017 790,000
2018 800,000
2019 808,000
2020 817,000
2021 825,000
2022 833,000
2023 841,000
2024 849,000
2025 857,000
2026 865,000
2027 874,000
2028 882,000
2029 890,000
2030 898,000
2031 905,000
2032 913,000
2033 921,000
2034 929,000
2035 937,000

Winnipeg Population Review
Winnipeg is a city located in the province of Manitoba in Canada. It is the largest city in the province and is also the capital of the province. It is home to 819 thousand people in the urban area and 632 thousand people in the city area. The city is named after Lake Winnipeg, whose name comes from a Western Cree word meaning ‘muddy water’.

The area was a known trading center for indigenous people long before the arrival of the Europeans. Established in 1738, Winnipeg is the eighth-most populated municipality in Canada and is known as the “Gateway to the West”.

A large population of First Nations’ people
The demographics of Winnipeg show it to be a multicultural and multilingual city: typical of most large, Canadian cities. A large part of the city’s population descended from First Nations people, with almost 11% of Winnipeg’s population self-identifying. This is far beyond the national average of 4.3%. The strong presence of First Nations’ descendants plays heavily into the city’s makeup. The city has the largest population of urban and off-reserve First Nations people, with about 72,000 Indigenous people calling the city home.

Winnipeg also has a large Filipino population, with Tagalog being the second-most common mother tongue spoken in the city. About 5% of the city’s population speak Tagalog as a first language and 8.7% of the city’s total population are Filipino. The city’s Filipino population live mostly in the West End and North End of the city.

A booming downtown core
Downtown Winnipeg is the city’s financial and economic core. Centred on the intersection of Portage Avenue and Main Street, it covers 2.6 square kilometres and is the fastest growing, high-income neighbourhood out of all of Winnipeg’s 236 neighbourhoods. There are more than 72,000 people who work in the downtown core and over 40,000 students attend classes at the universities and colleges located there.

The downtown core of Winnipeg has also been undergoing major changes, with the past few decades seeing huge revitalization efforts. Since 1999, over $1.2 billion dollars CAD has been invested in revamping downtown Winnipeg.

An economic powerhouse
Winnipeg has one of Canada’s most diversified economies and it is considered an economic base for the province. Major employment sectors are in the trades (15.2%), manufacturing (9.8%), education (7.7%), and health care and social assistance (15.2%). The city of Winnipeg had 21,000 employers listed as of 2012 and, as of 2014 there were approximately 416,700 people working in Winnipeg and the surrounding areas.

Winnipeg’s economy is rated as the fourth largest in Canada, just behind three of other major cities (Toronto, Calgary, and Regina). Winnipeg’s economy continues to flourish, with a real GDP growth of 2 percent in 2014 and a decrease in unemployment n 2013—something that was not happening in most of Canada. The median income in Winnipeg is around $72,000.

Culture Capital
In 2010, Canadian Heritage named the city of Winnipeg the Culture Capital of Canada. The city is rife with national historic sites (26, to be exact) and The Forks alone attracts 4 million visitors per year. It has many attractions, including the ‘City’ television studio, the Manitoba Theatre for Young People, the Winnipeg International Children’s Festival, and the Canadian Museum for Human Rights.

The city’s multicultural roots have also led to a variation of dishes and cooking styles that have now become unique to Winnipeg. Combinations of First Nations, European and Asian cooking styles have led to the city being known for its unique confectionaries and hot-smoked fish. Some of the city’s most famous dishes include schmoo torte, which is a torte with layers of whipped cream, caramel and nuts and sponge or angel food cake, and wafer pie, a Graham cracker pie which dates back to the 19th or early 20th century.


Quebec City

Population in Urban Area, now
838,063
World: 723rd North America: 93rd Canada: 7th
Population in City Area, 2022-08-11
531,902
World: 707th North America: 29th Canada: 8th
Quebec City Urban Area Population Graph

YEAR TOTAL POPULATION
1950 268,000
1951 275,000
1952 283,000
1953 290,000
1954 298,000
1955 306,000
1956 314,000
1957 323,000
1958 331,000
1959 340,000
1960 349,000
1961 358,000
1962 369,000
1963 380,000
1964 391,000
1965 403,000
1966 414,000
1967 427,000
1968 440,000
1969 454,000
1970 467,000
1971 481,000
1972 493,000
1973 505,000
1974 518,000
1975 530,000
1976 543,000
1977 549,000
1978 555,000
1979 562,000
1980 568,000
1981 574,000
1982 580,000
1983 586,000
1984 592,000
1985 598,000
1986 604,000
1987 612,000
1988 620,000
1989 629,000
1990 638,000
1991 646,000
1992 651,000
1993 656,000
1994 662,000
1995 667,000
1996 672,000
1997 675,000
1998 678,000
1999 681,000
2000 684,000
2001 687,000
2002 694,000
2003 700,000
2004 707,000
2005 713,000
2006 720,000
2007 729,000
2008 739,000
2009 748,000
2010 757,000
2011 767,000
2012 773,000
2013 780,000
2014 787,000
2015 794,000
2016 801,000
2017 808,000
2018 816,000
2019 821,000
2020 826,000
2021 832,000
2022 838,000
2023 844,000
2024 851,000
2025 858,000
2026 866,000
2027 873,000
2028 881,000
2029 889,000
2030 897,000
2031 905,000
2032 912,000
2033 920,000
2034 928,000
2035 936,000

Quebec City Population Review
Quebec City is the capital of the province of Quebec, located in Canada. It is home to 827,000 people in the urban area and 528,000 people in the city area. It is the eleventh largest city in Canada and the seventh largest metro area in Canada. It sits bordered by two rivers: the St. Charles River and the St. Lawrence River, which is why the Algonquian people originally named the area Kébec, an Algonquian word that means “where the river narrows”, since this is where the St. Laurence and the St. Charles narrow to a final meeting point.

Quebec City is spread over 485 square kilometers with a population density of about 228 people per square kilometers, which puts it much higher than the province’s population density of about 5 people per square kilometer.

Municipal mergers and an expanding city
In 2002, Quebec City annexed 12 former towns. These include: Sainte-Foy, Beauport, Charlesbourg, Sillery, Loretteville, Val-Bélair, Cap-Rouge, Saint-Émile, Vanier, L'Ancienne-Lorette, Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures and Lac-Saint-Charles. This was one of several municipal mergers that took place across the province of Quebec around that time. Four years later, L'Ancienne-Lorette and Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures were reconstituted as separate municipalities after a demerger referendum, however the other ten towns remain part of Quebec City. In 2009, Quebec City also restructured its boroughs down from 8 to 6.

Since 1950, the city has more than tripled in population—going from 268,000 inhabitants to its current number of 826,000 people. The city is predicted to continue growing steadily, with an estimated increase of another 100,000 people by 2035.

Demographics of the city
The cities demographics are almost equally split between male and female, with 48.2% of the population being male and 51.8% being female. Almost 21% of the population of the city are of retirement age (65 years and older) and 4.7% of the population are children under five. The median age of the city is around 43 years of age, which is a bit older than the country’s average of 41 years.

The number of visible minorities in the city is relatively low compared to other large cities, with only 6.3% of the population identifying as a visible minority. This is in comparison to the national average of 22.3%. The largest visible minority are Black Canadians, who make up 2.4% of the population.

A more equal income distribution
Compared to many other cities in North America, there is less income inequality in Quebec City across neighborhoods than in many other cities across the continent. There are some minor disparities between neighborhoods, such as the wealthier residents living in the former towns of Sillery, Cap-Rouge, and Sainte-Foy and the working-class residents living in the lower towns before Old Quebec, like Saint-Sauveur and Saint-Roch. However, Saint-Roch and Saint-Sauveur have also been seeing a lot of gentrification over the past 20 years, with many young professionals moving into the area and the construction of new condos and offices.

From a village, to a city
Quebec City was originally the capital of the French empire in North America. While this may seem like it was always a large and bustling city, it was actually nothing more than a generous village for many years. In 1608, it only had 28 residents. By the time of the Conquest in 1759, the village had become a town with 8,000 residents. Rapid growth continued in the 1800s, with the city adding over 50,000 residents by 1861. The economic expansion that the timber trade and administrative and political activities were providing the city meant that it was attracting many new people to the city.

The city’s growth is still above that of the rest of the province, with Quebec City growing by 6.5% a year, compared to the rest of the province at 4.9%
Wow - great summary of Winnipeg and Quebec City. That’s a ton of info - I’m exhausted just going through it all.
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  #164  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 12:38 AM
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After visiting and exploring Quebec City/Levis last Thursday, I'm changing my vote to Quebec. It's got tons of new developments, and while I hate the ugly Levis towers going up, like Hamilton, Kelowna and Kitchener Waterloo, it's a symbol of growth. Winnipeg is mostly stagnant or in decline, aside from its sprawling suburbs of grey stucco shit boxes.
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  #165  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 4:44 AM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
places like Gastown in Vancouver get so much oxygen, but its built form pales in comparison to the Exchange District in Winnipeg.

Not sure if you're overselling the Exchange or underselling Gastown here, but the size & scale of their historic built form is actually pretty similar. More importantly though: Gastown has better streetscaping, modern infill, is more seamlessly integrated with its surroundings, and is generally more vibrant, populated, and successful. Gastown is a model of what the Exchange could be with better care & planning, but until that happens its built form doesn't pale to anything in Winnipeg.
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  #166  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 5:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Not sure if you're overselling the Exchange or underselling Gastown here, but the size & scale of their historic built form is actually pretty similar. More importantly though: Gastown has better streetscaping, modern infill, is more seamlessly integrated with its surroundings, and is generally more vibrant, populated, and successful. Gastown is a model of what the Exchange could be with better care & planning, but until that happens its built form doesn't pale to anything in Winnipeg.
Having been to GasTown I can safely say there are quite a few less turn-of-the century buildings than in Winnipeg. You are right about the rest though.
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  #167  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 6:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Not sure if you're overselling the Exchange or underselling Gastown here, but the size & scale of their historic built form is actually pretty similar. More importantly though: Gastown has better streetscaping, modern infill, is more seamlessly integrated with its surroundings, and is generally more vibrant, populated, and successful. Gastown is a model of what the Exchange could be with better care & planning, but until that happens its built form doesn't pale to anything in Winnipeg.
That’s my point. The Exchange District is a superior heritage resource but Gastown gets far more attention because it has been developed to its potential. The Exchange doesn’t come close to realizing its potential.

Last edited by trueviking; Jul 5, 2023 at 6:30 AM.
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  #168  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 6:22 AM
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Originally Posted by urbandreamer View Post
After visiting and exploring Quebec City/Levis last Thursday, I'm changing my vote to Quebec. It's got tons of new developments, and while I hate the ugly Levis towers going up, like Hamilton, Kelowna and Kitchener Waterloo, it's a symbol of growth. Winnipeg is mostly stagnant or in decline, aside from its sprawling suburbs of grey stucco shit boxes.
Umm. I’m not sure if you know what stagnant means, but It’s growing faster than Quebec.
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  #169  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 7:40 AM
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Having been to GasTown I can safely say there are quite a few less turn-of-the century buildings than in Winnipeg. You are right about the rest though.
Most of Vancouver's buildings equivalent to the Exchange (early 20th century high rises) were not built in Gastown, they were around Hastings, Pender, & Granville Streets. Many are still there but perhaps not as concentrated.
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  #170  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 1:27 PM
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Last summer, Gastown's brick streets were treacherous, pot holed hell. Abandoned storefronts, sketchy AF people around. It felt very rundown vs 2016. Winnipeg needs to lower speed limits, redesign Portage & Main to how it was 100 years ago, possibly with a slow speed roundabout. Bike lanes, more trees, attractive street furniture, impose an 8 storey height limit, encourage infill development and discourage/ban sprawl.

Without knocking down a single prewar building, Winnipeg at 8 storeys has enough space for 1 million more people; Gastown and Chinatown could quadruple or more.
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  #171  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
That’s my point. The Exchange District is a superior heritage resource but Gastown gets far more attention because it has been developed to its potential. The Exchange doesn’t come close to realizing its potential.

Fair point, and I agree that the Exchange could be an equivalent to Gastown if it had more residents, more commercial activity, a better public realm, and if it were adjacent to a generally healthier downtown core.

That said, to say that the Exchange's historic built form blows Gastown's "out of the water" is a tad dramatic, and certainly debatable.
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  #172  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Fair point, and I agree that the Exchange could be an equivalent to Gastown if it had more residents, more commercial activity, a better public realm, and if it were adjacent to a generally healthier downtown core.

That said, to say that the Exchange's historic built form blows Gastown's "out of the water" is a tad dramatic, and certainly debatable.
Maybe the correct way to put it would be to say it is more architecturally significant. That said, the exchange is a far-cry from what it could be. It is really quite sad that it isn't the most eminent area of Winnipeg. I think that one of the issues which will be distinguishing QC for the better from us is that they are in the process of a major transit upgrade and implementing a rail system. This leaves Winnipeg as the only major city in Canada without any rail-transit.
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  #173  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Fair point, and I agree that the Exchange could be an equivalent to Gastown if it had more residents, more commercial activity, a better public realm, and if it were adjacent to a generally healthier downtown core.
Gastown and environs (the old medium density building part is really around Granville to Gore Ave or so as suggested by Architype) also has a lot of good adaptive reuse and complementary modern construction like Woodward's. For all its problems that Main Street axis running down to Mount Pleasant has arguably the most interesting urban development in the city.

In most cases the best heritage districts are actively cultivated and maintained/developed, and they are not just about bringing forward the largest volume of untouched older buildings. Even in the old parts of Quebec City there has been a lot of enhancement of what was there by adding floors, ornamentation, and detail. The lesson from that is that a lot of cities could create nice heritage-style districts.
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  #174  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2023, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by optimusREIM View Post
Maybe the correct way to put it would be to say it is more architecturally significant.
I don't know what people consider to be Gastown. Some parts of it have relatively plain medium-sized brick buildings from the boomtown era. Then again, there are gems like the Sun Tower. It is hard to think of a lot of Winnipeg buildings that are on another level from that or the Marine Building or Hotel Vancouver, etc. If you compare Vancouver and, say, New York or Paris, you could spend all day listing off more impressive historic landmarks.
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  #175  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 1:25 AM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
Umm. I’m not sure if you know what stagnant means, but It’s growing faster than Quebec.
Also the ~$165M Artis Reit Residential tower (300 Main) was recently completed downtown. It's only Winnipeg's new tallest building at 42 storeys, 141.7m or 465ft
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artis_...idential_Tower

Stagnant cities normally build their tallest structures during the time of stagnation lol
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  #176  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 4:51 AM
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I don't know what people consider to be Gastown. Some parts of it have relatively plain medium-sized brick buildings from the boomtown era. Then again, there are gems like the Sun Tower. It is hard to think of a lot of Winnipeg buildings that are on another level from that or the Marine Building or Hotel Vancouver, etc. If you compare Vancouver and, say, New York or Paris, you could spend all day listing off more impressive historic landmarks.
I've never considered Hastings or Pender to be Gastown, although it might be included in some broader and more specialized definition. Gastown seems older than the Exchange District, and IMO the buildings predate most of the historic high rises in both cities, which are mostly from around 1900 to 1920. Buildings like the Sun Tower, Dominion Building, and Seymour Building are outside this area.

I think this is the traditional area of Gastown.


(Source: The Gastown Business Improvement Society.)
https://gastown.org/about/gastown-bia/
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  #177  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 6:31 AM
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Originally Posted by optimusREIM View Post
Maybe the correct way to put it would be to say it is more architecturally significant.

Again, that's certainly debatable. There are several pre-war high-rises and substantial midrises throughout Gastown & environs. Remember that these two cities were around the same size pre-WWII, and their heritage stock reflects that. Eg:

https://goo.gl/maps/ukCTA9U3wXzP57tZA
https://goo.gl/maps/VxNdNTYJBJc3psxz7
https://goo.gl/maps/WgawYQnbuWMhYy9M7
https://goo.gl/maps/1pSyypSC3FptBaa59
https://goo.gl/maps/pNUN2yN7HaLZQx6MA
https://goo.gl/maps/gd9WqCdV2kAnt9yr8
https://goo.gl/maps/rPvyXx15crDF7jCt8
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  #178  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 1:34 PM
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I chose Winnipeg only because it has a head start atm. It also has the edge in it's current growth rate. Things can change though. I could see Ville Du Quebec see a surge in retired people moving there from Montreal as housing prices continue to rise in that city. Also with more jobs now being remote I could see younger people from Montreal and from other urban Centres moving to the region in search of more affordable housing. The one thing holding back migration form other parts of the country though might be the strict language laws.

A city that I see beating both Winnipeg and QC to the million mark is Halifax. Geographically, politically, and it's overall weather beats both of those cities. Not to mention it has a current growth rate of 4.4% where I think Winnipeg is around 0.95% and QC is at .66%.
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  #179  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 1:37 PM
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Moncton has a growth rate of 5.4%

Just kidding. I read recently that Halifax planners are contemplating a CMA population of over a million in the 2070s.
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  #180  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 1:48 PM
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I chose Winnipeg only because it has a head start atm. It also has the edge in it's current growth rate. Things can change though. I could see Ville Du Quebec see a surge in retired people moving there from Montreal as housing prices continue to rise in that city. Also with more jobs now being remote I could see younger people from Montreal and from other urban Centres moving to the region in search of more affordable housing. The one thing holding back migration form other parts of the country though might be the strict language laws.

A city that I see beating both Winnipeg and QC to the million mark is Halifax. Geographically, politically, and it's overall weather beats both of those cities. Not to mention it has a current growth rate of 4.4% where I think Winnipeg is around 0.95% and QC is at .66%.
Unless Halifax gets to a million by 2030 it’s not beating Winnipeg. I’m pretty sure Winnipeg (and maybe even QC) annual growth rate are closer to 3% with the massive increase in growth that every single province has had this year.
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