Chief William Commanda Bridge (former Prince of Wales Bridge)

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Hmm... it seems that we have two very similar threads on the subject of the Prince of Wales Bridge. Mods, I'd like to propose merging these... what do you think?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=214731

merged

[rocketphish]

$250K a pretty penny to seal bridge to nowhere

Kelly Egan, Ottawa Citizen
August 16, 2016 5:47 pm



The City of Ottawa wants to install pearly gates on the Prince of Wales train bridge over the Ottawa River.

Sorry, that was childish and wrong. They will not be made of pearl. They will be made of gold. How else can you spend $250,000 on a set of metal barriers?

We had a quick look at the bridge on Tuesday morning and a lovely walk it was, though probably highly illegal. Two immediate reactions to the city’s proposal: a) This is a bad idea, and b) It won’t work.

To situate things in time and place: the Prince of Wales bridge opened in 1881 and was the first railway link between Ottawa and Hull. It runs in two spans, touching land on Lemieux Island mid-river. On the Ottawa side, it begins just west of LeBreton Flats near Bayview station and the NCC bike path runs right beneath the graffitied girders. On the Hull side, it intersects with another bike path, then the rail disappears into overgrown brush.

The views from the bridge, a 1,000-metre skeleton of rusting bone, are, frankly, fantastic. I saw islands I didn’t know existed, the parliamentary precinct in new profile, the bulk of downtown Hull in favourable light, the funnel of the Chaudière Falls but, mostly, this untapped potential. It could be so much more.

So, though there are no real guardrails and walking is on wooden, gapped planks, lots of people use the closed bridge on a regular basis.

(It is ironic, if not a little hoot, that 15 years after the last train passed by, there is sudden urgency to deal with pedestrian and public safety.)

Access, of course, is gained, rare warning signs be damned. A big chunk of a black chain-link fence has been cut on the Ottawa side, just below the overpass for the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway. On the Quebec side, there is no fence at all and, from Lemieux Island, a whole section has been ripped out.

I ran into a regular dog walker Tuesday morning. She tells me dozens of kids gather nightly on the Quebec span to make the high-scale jump into the moving water. Indeed, there appeared to be both a jump rope and a makeshift diving board on the Quebec side. And someone’s towel, drying on a line.

Dog walkers are common. There was a man fishing, another guy on a bike — these damn humans, everywhere!

It is the old story. If you don’t create a purpose for a piece of public property, people will make their own.

All of which to say, it is difficult to imagine any set of metal gates that would keep determined individuals off the bridge— there are just too many ways in. Isn’t the answer, then, to create a vibrant public realm that encourages traffic, in a safe way?

It would, obviously, make a wonderful cycling and walking path. There may even be room for little viewing areas. Look at the High Line in Manhattan, which is little more than walkways, strategic vegetation and great views of an urban jungle — but immensely popular.

In fairness to the city, which acquired the whole bridge in 2005, it is still reviewing its options. Good. Maybe it can ditch this bad one.

“It is the City’s responsibility to manage public safety in that corridor, including access and trespassing on the bridge,” reads a response from the city.

“Actions have been taken to prevent trespassing, including signage, chains and fencing in the past. A gate option is being considered amongst other options to improve public security.”

(It is an unassailable argument: public security is improved when there is no public present. As to reports of swarmings on or near the bridge, do these not occur in multiple places across the city?)

It is little wonder that Coun. Jeff Leiper — who, too weird not to mention, tweeted a selfie from New York’s High Line this week — is not amused and is encouraging public opposition.

“I believe very strongly that it is money better spent on the things Kitchissippi residents have been asking for,” he wrote in a newsletter to ward residents.

“We’ll persist with staff in trying to reverse this decision, bolstered by your notes to our offices.”

A gate is not going to work. If we have $250,000 to burn, let’s spend it on building bridges and not shutting doors, especially to exquisite opportunities.

To contact Kelly Egan, please call 613-726-5896 or email kegan@postmedia.com

http://ottawacitizen.com/storyline/e...dge-to-nowhere

[rocketphish]

What's lost if the bridge closes?

Tyler Dawson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: August 16, 2016 | Last Updated: August 16, 2016 6:50 PM EDT



We take a break from your regularly scheduled programming to discuss how Ottawa continues to be the city fun forgot. Or, now that I think about it, is that the regular programming and everything else is just a sideshow? At any rate, the city is going to spend a mighty pile of cash to block access to the Prince of Wales Bridge, a favoured spot for hanging out and watching the sunset and catching nice views of the river.

It’s not so much a dumb idea as it is a sad idea.

The bridge, long decommissioned, has been slated for renovation, but the money was diverted elsewhere. Councillors Jeff Leiper and and Catherine McKenney say they objected strongly, preferring that the money be used to make the bridge safe. And yet, up the gates will go – God forbid anyone get out and enjoy themselves. If there had been trouble over the years with the bridge, the case could be made to shut it down for safety. Since that isn’t the case … well, there isn’t a case.

Absent a couple swarmings – and where in a city isn’t there the occasional crime? – the Prince of Wales Bridge seems like a perfectly fine and tranquil spot. Policy shouldn’t be crafted on the premise that something may happen; given the track record here, cutting off access seems like overkill.

When it comes to natural amenities, cities like to point to their walking paths and waterways and green spots to sit and have a picnic or throw around a baseball. There are plenty of other urban elements that make a city pleasant – park benches, for example, especially those ones without the cruel middle bars that keep homeless people from sleeping, or bus shelters to keep the weather off. Then there are the spots that make a city particularly special, because of their uniqueness: The hole in the wall restaurants and dive bars, the place that still lets patrons smoke on the patio or keeps selling booze after last call or the special spot to take a date or visitor.

A city is only as good as the weird, quirky stuff that residents are able to do, like hang out on an old, possibly hazardous rail bridge. And, by the way, there’s no reason to believe it’s particularly hazardous. After all, people walking or cycling on a bridge meant to carry trains isn’t going to cause a collapse. In Edmonton, there’s a concrete slab, part of a retaining wall, down a now-closed road. It’s called the End of the World, offering breathtaking views of the city’s River Valley. But the area is slowly slumping down the embankment, so the city has shut off access.

It’s a loss, really, a material one in terms of deteriorating infrastructure and a more numinous one, too, because of what’s lost in a city without those little secrets that not everyone knows about. Another example from Edmonton: The Charles Camsell Hospital, which sits abandoned, windows broken, fenced off, drapes flapping in the windows. It is spectacularly, perfectly, indescribably spooky, its walls supposedly haunted by tragedies untold or unsolved. Alas, it’s scheduled for re-development, and there’s no real way to stand in the way of that. (The police, at the moment, stand in the way of trying to get inside – I found that out the hard way once.)

That sort of stuff gives a city its character. And sometimes, this town is badly in need of a little character.

The fact of the matter is cities are meant to have a little grit, a bit of an edge; it’s why Naples is more fun than Florence, Montreal superior to Toronto, Edinburgh more lovely than London. It’s good, in its way, for the soul of the city and for those who actually live there.

Are there risks of these sorts of projects? Yeah, maybe. But, as the cliché goes, many things in life are worth the risk. Fix the bridge or leave it as it is. But big metal gates to keep the public away? What a perfectly Ottawa solution to a perfectly Ottawa problem.

Tyler Dawson is deputy editorial pages editor of the Ottawa Citizen.

tdawson@postmedia.com
Twitter.com/tylerrdawson

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/col...-bridge-closes

[kevinbottawa]

If Instagram is any indication there are literally people taking pictures of or on this bridge daily. It's sad that one of Ottawa's most photographed and Instagrammed landmarks is being fenced off.

[rocketphish]

Prince of Wales Bridge's future still in the air

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: August 16, 2016 | Last Updated: August 16, 2016 7:55 PM EDT



There is no momentum to use the historic Prince of Wales Bridge for any mode of transportation.

With the threat of closing the bridge to unsanctioned recreational use, it could be years until a pedestrian, cyclist, bus or train traverses the crossing.

Vivi Chi, the city’s manager of transportation planning, said in an email Tuesday there is no active transit planning happening on that rail corridor, since a transit connection is not part of the city’s affordability plan for the next 15 years.

Where there was some talk of using the bridge for a bus connection, the idea hasn’t gained any traction.

“An interim use of the corridor for bus technology and co-ordination with (Société de Transport de l’Outaouais) services would need to be examined,” Chi said. “However, no transit planning work is scheduled to be underway in this corridor in the near term.”

An interprovincial cycling and pedestrian connection on the bridge, which is contemplated in the city’s transportation plans, seems to have dropped off the priority list in favour of other projects.

That leaves a 136-year-old bridge as a nice subject for people’s sunset photographs, but as long as there isn’t money to spruce it up, it won’t be very useful.

There have been high hopes to integrate the bridge into the region’s transit vision.

The City of Ottawa acquired the bridge when it bought the CP rail corridor in 2005.

The 2013 interprovincial transit strategy led by the National Capital Commission considered a Trillium Line extension to Gatineau a “medium term” project between 2018 and 2021.

Reactivating the bridge as a transit crossing and adding a multi-use path are part of the NCC’s recently released 50-year plan. But using the bridge as a public transit connection is considered a “longer-term” project by the agency in the document.

The city’s current transportation master plan doesn’t consider using the bridge for rapid transit until after 2031. Past estimates have suggested it would cost between $20 million and $40 million to fix the bridge for rail.

The city’s cycling plan muses about making the bridge a bike and pedestrian connection by 2019 if the city can split the roughly $10-million cost with the NCC and Gatineau.

Now, the city might block access to the bridge deck at a potential cost of $250,000, money that some would rather see used to make the bridge usable for transportation again. The city is concerned about public safety, since it owns the structure and tries in vain to keep people off of it.

A petition is collecting signatures urging the city to keep the bridge accessible to the public.

Knoxdale-Merivale Coun. Keith Egli, chair of council’s transportation committee, said redeveloping the bridge as an interprovincial cycling and pedestrian connection would cost much more than $250,000.

“It wouldn’t even scratch the surface,” Egli said. “We’re talking in the millions of dollars.”

The bridge would be highly useful for transportation between Ottawa and Gatineau.

There is real potential for development at LeBreton Flats with the Ottawa Senators anchoring the site. If the arena and subsequent mixed-use development come to fruition, there will be pressure to move people easily across the Ottawa River without loading cars and buses on the other interprovincial bridges.

Meanwhile, there is still the outstanding issue of removing STO buses from the streets of downtown Ottawa when the Confederation Line LRT is running in 2018. There is still no resolution on this.

STO spokesperson Celine Gauthier said the talks between STO, OC Transpo and the City of Ottawa are ongoing. Derek Washnuk, the City of Ottawa’s program manager of transit service strategy, said the parties are finalizing details.

The Prince of Wales Bridge, connecting Ottawa and Gatineau rapid transit systems, might be the best solution, but it’s not happening anytime soon.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ill-in-the-air

[Uhuniau]

For the love of decency, how friggin' hard would it be to extend the O-Train across that bridge?

There is way more appetite for this than people realize, yet the idea keeps getting shot down.

Why?

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

For the love of decency, how friggin' hard would it be to extend the O-Train across that bridge?

Well... for starters, this summer they ripped up the tracks on the Ottawa side from Bayview to the bridge.... doesn't look like they'll be leaving a corridor in place..

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Well... for starters, this summer they ripped up the tracks on the Ottawa side from Bayview to the bridge.... doesn't look like they'll be leaving a corridor in place..

The tracks would have to be replaced anyway. Where's the corridor going?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

For the love of decency, how friggin' hard would it be to extend the O-Train across that bridge?

There is way more appetite for this than people realize, yet the idea keeps getting shot down.

Why?

Cost. As the most recent posted article says, "Past estimates have suggested it would cost between $20 million and $40 million to fix the bridge for rail." Then there is the whole issue of who would use it, since most users would have to transfer at both ends of the bridge (Carleton Students being a major exception). On top of that, another stretch of single track would cause even more delays on the Trillium line.

In the end it is a great option for Ottawa to have in its back pocket, but it is just too expensive to use right now.

Some might argue, why not make it safe for pedestrians and cyclists now. While cost is one argument against it, the bigger argument that no one wants to say is that once you turn it into an official recreational path, you can kiss option for using it for rails goodbye as the users would be outraged to have such a critical piece of infrastructural removed. Its kind of like when a developer has land they want to keep for future use, its better to keep it as an eyesore than it is to turn it into a temporary park, as once it becomes a park, no one will want it developed, but everyone is eager to have an eyesore removed.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Cost. As the most recent posted article says, "Past estimates have suggested it would cost between $20 million and $40 million to fix the bridge for rail."

That's not nothing... but it's not much, really.

Then there is the whole issue of who would use it, since most users would have to transfer at both ends of the bridge (Carleton Students being a major exception).

And? The answer to that question is to build it and see.

On top of that, another stretch of single track would cause even more delays on the Trillium line.

That's why Al Gore invented passing tracks. One could be installed in Hull, and another on the island.

In the end it is a great option for Ottawa to have in its back pocket, but it is just too expensive to use right now.

The "too expensive" argument never seems to work against road projects.

And the option is only in Ottawa's back pocket as long as that bridge isn't turned into a "linear park". Once that happens, it's game over: there will never be interprovincial transit beyond basic crappy bus service. Never.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

That's why Al Gore invented passing tracks. One could be installed in Hull, and another on the island.

Eric Darwin suggested the idea of a line across the PoW bridge being separate from the Trillium Line (ie. being a separate service from Bayview to Montcalm) in order to avoid operational conflicts with the Trillium Line.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Eric Darwin suggested the idea of a line across the PoW bridge being separate from the Trillium Line (ie. being a separate service from Bayview to Montcalm) in order to avoid operational conflicts with the Trillium Line.

The problem with that idea is it creates yet another transfer for some, though most would be transferring at Bayview anyway.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Eric Darwin suggested the idea of a line across the PoW bridge being separate from the Trillium Line (ie. being a separate service from Bayview to Montcalm) in order to avoid operational conflicts with the Trillium Line.

A less desirable solution, but also something that is worthier of consideration than turning that bridge into sacred pedestrian "space".

[Horus]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Eric Darwin suggested the idea of a line across the PoW bridge being separate from the Trillium Line (ie. being a separate service from Bayview to Montcalm) in order to avoid operational conflicts with the Trillium Line.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

A less desirable solution, but also something that is worthier of consideration than turning that bridge into sacred pedestrian "space".

Agreed, and Darwin's posted suggestion (here, ICYMI ) seems to be relatively easy to implement. It could be just the thing to gauge how much uptake an interprovincial LRT connection might have.

[McC]

makes use of the old Talents instead of leaving them to rust, and if the arrivals/departures of the trains in each direction out of Bayview aresynchronized (which *should* be easy, given the southbound Trillium line's lengthy dwell time, and the short length of a potential northbound stubway) then it would be a simple cross platform-transfer in a sheltered station; a, what, 3-4metre? straight shot door to door from climate controlled car to climate controlled car? that should impose a pretty minimal transfer penalty. It would be a repeat of the original O-Train experiment, a cheap no-frills demonstration project to see if and how people use it. obvi, as part of the bridge rehab, I'd want a multi-use path hung off the side of the bridge, Alexandra-style, only cantilevered from the east side of the bridge, instead of the west, for downtown views. (There's no understanding why the City hasn't done the same thing on Billings Bridge when that one was rehabbed).

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by McC

makes use of the old Talents instead of leaving them to rust, and if the arrivals/departures of the trains in each direction out of Bayview aresynchronized (which *should* be easy, given the southbound Trillium line's lengthy dwell time, and the short length of a potential northbound stubway) then it would be a simple cross platform-transfer in a sheltered station; a, what, 3-4metre? straight shot door to door from climate controlled car to climate controlled car? that should impose a pretty minimal transfer penalty. It would be a repeat of the original O-Train experiment, a cheap no-frills demonstration project to see if and how people use it. obvi, as part of the bridge rehab, I'd want a multi-use path hung off the side of the bridge, Alexandra-style, only cantilevered from the east side of the bridge, instead of the west, for downtown views. (There's no understanding why the City hasn't done the same thing on Billings Bridge when that one was rehabbed).

The problem is the bridge needs between $20 million and $40 million worth of repairs before it can be used for rail. That doesn't include any other infrastructure on either side of the bridge.

If the the money was found, where would the Gatineau station be? Accross from the Rapibus station at Alexandre-Taché Blvd (forcing transfers for everyone at both ends)? Close to Terrasses de la Chaudière (a much more useful location, but requiring more expensive track repairs and there is what looks like a decrepit heritage building in the way).

Regardless, without the City of Gatineau's support, the whole thing is a non-starter.

The biggest issue I have with using the PoW bridge, is it is too far west for optimal transit use. As I mentioned in the Sandy Hill Truck Tunnel thread, why not use the PoW bridge as truck bridge as an alternate to the tunnel? It could be easily connected to Hwy 50 on the Quebec side (only a tiny bit of tunneling would be necessary, most of which could be cut and cover). On the Ontario side it would be a bit more difficult, but overall still much easier than what is proposed in the tunnel study.

With a new vehicle bridge in place, they could put the LRT on the Chaudière Bridge instead. This would lead directly to Terrasses de la Chaudière and be able to connect to the Confederation line further east (at Pimisi). Its basically a 4 lane crossing, so 2 lane vehicle access could be maintained for Chaudière Island. It would force an extra connection from those on the Trillium line, but there are solutions to that issue.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The problem is the bridge needs between $20 million and $40 million worth of repairs before it can be used for rail. That doesn't include any other infrastructure on either side of the bridge.

The original O-Train pilot project cost about $70M or so if I remember correctly, so this one would probably have a comparable cost.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The problem is the bridge needs between $20 million and $40 million worth of repairs before it can be used for rail. That doesn't include any other infrastructure on either side of the bridge.

True enough. It would also cost a lot to get the bridge set up for truck traffic too. Darwin's suggestion was to spend the minimal amount needed to get the bridge safe in its current configuration (single track).

Originally Posted by roger1818

If the the money was found, where would the Gatineau station be? Accross from the Rapibus station at Alexandre-Taché Blvd (forcing transfers for everyone at both ends)? Close to Terrasses de la Chaudière (a much more useful location, but requiring more expensive track repairs and there is what looks like a decrepit heritage building in the way).

In Darwin's post, he suggested the Gatineau terminus be at Terrasses de la Chaudière. The tracks would need repair, but the ROW is already there. The "decrepit heritage building" could actually be used as the terminal. In addition, I don't think it would be too much of an effort for Gatineau to extend the Rapibus line across Taché and add an extra station at the 'split' in the rail line. They would just need to construct a bus loop near the end of the UQO football field. Probably doable.

Originally Posted by roger1818

Regardless, without the City of Gatineau's support, the whole thing is a non-starter.

Also true. However, there are potential incentives to encourage Gatineau (and STO) to get on board with this. The addition of this O-train spur into Gatineau would alter the need for so many STO (and OC Transpo) routes between Hull and downtown Ottawa. That may be attractive to them.

Originally Posted by roger1818

The biggest issue I have with using the PoW bridge, is it is too far west for optimal transit use. As I mentioned in the Sandy Hill Truck Tunnel thread, why not use the PoW bridge as truck bridge as an alternate to the tunnel? It could be easily connected to Hwy 50 on the Quebec side (only a tiny bit of tunneling would be necessary, most of which could be cut and cover). On the Ontario side it would be a bit more difficult, but overall still much easier than what is proposed in the tunnel study.

With a new vehicle bridge in place, they could put the LRT on the Chaudière Bridge instead. This would lead directly to Terrasses de la Chaudière and be able to connect to the Confederation line further east (at Pimisi). Its basically a 4 lane crossing, so 2 lane vehicle access could be maintained for Chaudière Island. It would force an extra connection from those on the Trillium line, but there are solutions to that issue.

There are trade-offs at play here, to be sure. It seems simpler to keep the bridge (albeit in need of repair regardless of intended use) in its original purpose and form than to drastically change not just the POW, but Chaudière bridge, for the gains of getting Gatineau commuters 1 stop closer to downtown as well as diverting trucks into another part of the city that is also not equipped to handle it. Using Bayview as a major transfer point from the north or south is not ideal, but it is only 2 stops away from downtown with an inbound transfer time of 3 minutes or less. That hardly seems like something to drastically reshape the city's transportation network over at massive expense.

[rocketphish]

How 5 cities gave new life to old rail bridges
Could the Prince of Wales Bridge become Ottawa's High Line?

By Alistair Steele, CBC News Posted: Aug 18, 2016 3:45 PM ET Last Updated: Aug 19, 2016 11:05 AM ET

News that the City of Ottawa is considering spending $250,000 to install permanent gates to prevent pedestrian access to the Prince of Wales Bridge has been met with a fair degree of public criticism.

Trespassers who nevertheless enjoy strolling across the rusting structure, which saw its last train 15 years ago and was acquired by the city in 2006, see the idea as an unimaginative waste of money and, more to the point, potential.

To get an idea of what could be, here's a look at what five other cities did with disused bridges, viaducts and elevated railways.

New York: The High Line

Coun. Jeff Leiper, no fan of Ottawa's plan to block the Prince of Wales Bridge, happened to be in New York this week, where he visited that city's celebrated High Line.

The High Line is a 2.3-kilometre linear park built atop a disused, elevated freight rail line along Manhattan's West Side. Since its first section opened to the public in 2009, the public park has become one of New York's top tourist draws, offering high-design seating areas and unique views of the city's historic Meat Packing District.

Paris: La Promenade Plantée

Sometimes called "the original High Line," the French capital's Promenade Plantée is another linear park created atop the 19th-century Vincennes railway viaduct. Designed by landscape architects Jacques Vergely and Philippe Mathieux and inaugurated in 1993, the park is also longer than its American protégé, stretching 4.7 kilometres from the Opéra Bastille to a spiral staircase leading down to Boulevard Périphérique. Being Paris, the viaduct arches house quaint cafés, studios and boutiques.

Minneapolis: Stone Arch Bridge

The Stone Arch Bridge is a historic rail bridge crossing the Mississippi River at Saint Anthony Falls in downtown Minneapolis, Minn. The last passenger train crossed the bridge in 1978, and in 1992 it was acquired by Minnesota's transportation department. Two years later, the city converted the bridge into a crossing for pedestrians and cyclists.

Poughkeepsie: Walkway Over the Hudson

As its name suggests, the Walkway Over the Hudson in Poughkeepsie, N.Y., is a pedestrian walkway spanning the Hudson River. The steel cantilever bridge served as a dual-track rail crossing from 1889 to 1974, and was added to the U.S. National Register of Historic Places shortly after. In 2009 it was given new life as the longest footbridge in the world, part of the new Walkway Over the Hudson State Historic Park.

Fredericton: Old Train Bridge

Also known as the Fredericton Railway Bridge and the Bill Thorpe Walking Bridge, after the founder of Fredericton, N.B.'s trail system, the 78-year-old steel truss bridge was converted to a pedestrian crossing over the Saint John River in 1997. The federal and provincial governments kicked in funding for the millennium project, which now forms part of the Trans Canada Trail. Locals say they have the world's longest walking bridge, but they aren't the only ones to make that claim.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...line-1.3726390

[rocketphish]

The problem with all of the above examples is that they take the bridge out of service as a rail bridge.