A forumer's long view of Winnipeg

[thebasketballgeek]

Imo as a younger person here I feel there has been a more dramatic shift in the populace that has been increasingly more receptive of things such as protected bike lanes, and transit infrastructure. The reason we are probably lagging behind is because well there just isn’t that much traffic congestion here. All those other cities have major issues with traffic for one reason or another that hasn’t seeped through to Winnipeg.

Also, the government itself is getting more progressive. I think during Bowman’s term as mayor we’ve had a 75% increase in AT paths which is quite impressive. You got councillors like Janice Lukes, Matt Allard, and Vivian Santos who are lobbying as much as possible to create streets with multiple modes of transportation.

The 2022 election is much more important to see if we are able to implement these changes because no matter who gets elected I'm almost certain that Winnipeg and Manitoba will enter the most prosperous era of its existence. I mean we have all the capabilities to be a global power in renewable energy and agribusiness while being a continental transportation hub as climate change emerges and the NorthWest Passage becomes a viable route. Not to mention Canada as a country needs to strengthen the centre of the country with a primary city to the likes of Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal and Winnipeg is the most suited to fulfil that role (heavy bias ofc) These are industries with massive potential that you pair with high affordability and immigration and only the most incompetent buffoon could mess this situation up.

To give you any assurance Esquire as a future city planner I plan to do whatever it takes and everything in my power to make Winnipeg a great city. Even if that involves going into politics later on in my life. There’s too much potential that is unrealized here and the current leaders don’t have the vision to fulfill this opportunity.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

only the most incompetent buffoon could mess this situation up.

I assure you that many incompetent buffoons are vying for that title and opportunity.

[trueviking]

Esquire, I'm sorry I made you sad, but I feel your pain. I try to remind myself that Winnipeg has changed and has grown up quite a lot. Remember the early days on this forum when we would get excited about any little crumb of development news. If you step back and think about where we have come from, we have moved forward a lot.

But I agree, as I feel my days on this rock slowing slipping away, it gets more depressing to see the pace of our city's evolution. When you are young the possibility of seeing change gives you hope but as I get older and see how long it takes to make impactful lifestyle changes, it makes me question what is the point in even fighting for it. We are still in the convincing people stage, never mind the implementation stage. Why didn't I just move away after university like all my friends did?

I am really worried about the next election. I have heard that we are likely going to get two sets of candidates. Progressive and really not progressive. It's easy to see an anti-urbanist winning. I'm worried that will be the straw that breaks this camel's back.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I am really worried about the next election. I have heard that we are likely going to get two sets of candidates. Progressive and really not progressive. It's easy to see an anti-urbanist winning. I'm worried that will be the straw that breaks this camel's back.

Oof. I hope that isn't what it comes down to. There is a world of difference between a mayor and council that simply can't be bothered to really pursue these types of things for lack of concern, lack of money or whatever other reason vs. one that is aggressively opposed to even the idea (think the Motkaluk, Browaty type candidates... basically anyone who likes to trot out the line "this is a car city").

Having the latter group take control of council would be very hard to swallow.

[The Jabroni]

I watched a video on YouTube last night about "Stroads" that are rampant across North America, and reminded me of Winnipeg on how we have plenty of them strewn across the city.

Yeah, the video itself was a bit pessimistic, but it slapped a cold hard reality we are facing.

When I started here 18 years ago, I was in high school, and had hopes that our city was growing and would turn itself around in the coming years.

I did see some developments and various landmarks being built, but at the same time, had also witnessed very little progress on our critical infrastructure.

The constant politicking of this and that has really set us back ten fold. Seeing other Western Canadian cities progress further in relation to us, they invest into the future, while we don't.

I feel that the potential candidates and city council in general are in the "old boys club" of politics.

Now, we're stuck with what we have. Unless major changes are made from up top, and funding changes made for the better, nothing much in this city will change, even in a post COVID world.

The optimism in me is draining away as time goes on, and it's depressing.

[esquire]

The resident debbie downer is back for another round!

I spent a weekend in Saskatoon and one in Regina over the last month, it was my first visit to those downtowns in quite a long time. And I hate to admit it, but I think the downtown experience in those cities has surpassed what Winnipeg can offer.

Now there is no question that Winnipeg has the advantage of sheer size. There is an awful lot of downtown Winnipeg relative to our neighbours. We have more restaurants, more museums, more hotels, etc. But what they do have are nice, clean, well maintained parks (we have The Forks, I guess... but the rest are very inconsistent), they have actual downtown shopping both in malls and on proper downtown shopping streets... both independent retailers and big chains. They have downtown Bay stores. You go to the mall and there is a plethora of stores filled with shoppers. The streets are generally calm without the stroads and their heavy traffic. The sidewalks just seem more inviting generally.

And there is a certain social order that we just don't seem to have anymore.

Now before someone accuses me of being racist about the last point, let me just say that there is a BIPOC presence in downtown Regina and Saskatoon that is really no less visible than in Winnipeg. Saskatoon and Regina are diverse cities. But somehow it just seems to work better than ours does. Their downtown doesn't seem to have that hardened edge that Winnipeg does. Being downtown there reminded me of downtown Winnipeg 20-odd years ago.

Now there are some things that they don't have. There is no downtown arena in either, although I suppose Saskatoon is working on that. Saskatoon has a nice downtown cinema although I don't think Regina has one anymore.

But the days of 20 years ago when downtown Winnipeg was bigger and self evidently better than downtown Regina and Saskatoon are gone, I'm afraid. They've caught up with us. The sad part is that they haven't improved by leaps and bounds... they just managed to tread water while we regressed. Our skyline has improved more than theirs without question, but the experience on the ground is simply not competitive IMO. I suppose there is more to city-building than just skylines.

[trueviking]

i spent a few days in saskatoon last summer and when I arrived, I had the same thought that you did....it made me mad....after spending a bit more time there i did realize that the walkable area with storefronts is really limited to a couple small streets and they have a kind of small town vibe, like Kenora....it is really nice but it is hard to compare it to Winnipeg....it is just sooooo much smaller. There is nothing like the Exchange District, the Forks, or even the Bro-Ass area....the couple streets were great and I'd love to have that in Winnipeg for sure, but it is just such a different scale....downtown, including the mall is still a shopping area because the city is so small that people still come there as a neighbourhood destination.

What made me more angry to be honest was the couple of neighbourhood high streets they have outside of downtown....we have nothing like that at all...their trendy osborne type street is so much better than anything we have in winnipeg....lined with shops and restaurants....much more urban than anywhere in winnipeg.

[thurmas]

I have always enjoyed Regina's downtown far more than ours felt cozier more vibrant and welcoming safe and clean.

[rivercity]

It all comes down to wider sidewalks. Osborne is totally screwed when you have a 3 ft wide sidewalk next to a perpetual rush hour traffic jam.

[trueviking]

totally...like all of winnipeg's commercial streets...every one of them is a wide stroad built to funnel as many cars as possible down it.

[thebasketballgeek]

It 100% has to do with the infrastructure and how big the roads are in Downtown.

When you put 1 way 4-lane roads on every single street it's not going to be a great pedestrian experience. Downtown as it is currently constructed is just a thoroughfare for suburbanites to pass through.

Implement 2-way streets, or my preferred option is to put the following on every Downtown street.

Make each street 1 way, but only allow 1 lane for cars rather then 4 and put it on the very left side of said street. Use the lane to the right as on street parking. Then the lane after that can be a dedicated transit corridor, and finally replace the last lane with AT infrastructure. This is a rudimentary visual of of what I am thinking.

Turn this:



Into this:



Reduce the speed of cars to 30, keep busses at 50 and not only will we never see a pedestrian fatality in Downtown ever again, but it will incentivize people to use alternative modes of transportation. All it really takes are a few small curb installments to separate the modes of transport and the Downtown experience changes drastically.

[esquire]

I take your point as to how Smith can be improved, but it's hard to accept that one-ways downtown are inherently flawed when you have this sort of pleasant pedestrian environment as you see in Regina.



A block of office towers with nice, up to date retail at the base. The trees have grown since the picture was taken so it's a little greener now. Nothing fancy, but all the pieces are there. And it works, it's a pleasant street to walk down. Not busy, not stroady, it's like if Kennedy St. had a complete streetscape instead of all the knocked out teeth it currently has.

[thebasketballgeek]

I agree with you that one ways in Downtown are NOT inherently flawed. Two of my favourite streets in Winnipeg are Princess and Bannatyne which are both 1-way streets. Most European cities have a massive collection 1 way streets as well and at times are superior to 2 way streets.. The flaws start to occur when you make that 1 way street too wide and make it primarily for the utilization of cars. That’s Winnipeg’s big problem in Downtown and until their are intense road diets (or conversion to 2-way streets) these problems will only get further exacerbated.

[esquire]

^ I think that is a major part of the issue. The busy stroads in those cities basically border downtown, while our stroads go right through the heart of downtown. Portage, Main, even the Donald/Smith pair, Notre Dame, Broadway... all very stroady and focused on pushing cars through.

To me the symbol of downtown Winnipeg's stroadiness are these infernal trucks from this specific trucking company that are always clogging the streets at rush hour with their cargo of grain.



In other cities you don't see this kind of highway hauling right through the centre of the city the way you do here.

[trueviking]

It’s unbelievable that downtown is a semi trailer route.

The width of our streets is definitely a huge problem. One ways are too. You might find a one way somewhere that’s ok but it would be better as a two way. It slows traffic and makes it a better pedestrian experience. It’s one piece of taking back downtown from cars. There nothing more annoying than riding a bike in a grid of one way streets. You invariably just say screw it and go the wrong way or use the sidewalk.

Even our narrow streets are crappy, really. The exchange should be far more vibrant than it is. There’s barely a handful of shops in the entire area.

[harls]

Originally Posted by trueviking

or even the Bro-Ass area..

Did you just make this up? Because if you did, you need to take this to city hall asap.

How many tik-tokers would love to live in the Bro-Ass area? (I am not as old as rrskylar but I think this means 'Broadway-Assiniboine?')

[biguc]

Bro-Ass is an SSP staple, going back to the days when CentreVenture (or whoever) tried to rebrand the area south of Portage as SoPo. I think the funnelators were somehow involved, which on reflection were always a better fit in Bro-Ass. Anyone want an Ice enema?

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I think that is a major part of the issue. The busy stroads in those cities basically border downtown, while our stroads go right through the heart of downtown. Portage, Main, even the Donald/Smith pair, Notre Dame, Broadway... all very stroady and focused on pushing cars through.

To me the symbol of downtown Winnipeg's stroadiness are these infernal trucks from this specific trucking company that are always clogging the streets at rush hour with their cargo of grain.



In other cities you don't see this kind of highway hauling right through the centre of the city the way you do here.

I also got really jealous of Saskatoon when I stopped for lunch there back in 2014. They had actual downtown retail!

I think the stroad issue is a traffic issue. Small cities can lace their downtowns with stroads and wide one-ways, but with light traffic they won't make an area uninhabitable. Winnipeg is a bigger city--its abundant stroad space is now thoroughly fucked by cars, making downtown unpleasant.

Take the above picture of Hamilton street. In Winnipeg they would have rush-hour parking bans in the curb lanes so that grain trucks can rip by centimeters from pedestrians.

Eliminating trucking through downtown is long overdue. As is providing better transit service to accommodate the people travelling downtown. As is making high streets something other than traffic sewers.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by biguc

I also got really jealous of Saskatoon when I stopped for lunch there back in 2014. They had actual downtown retail!

It's irritating. I hadn't been to Saskatoon and Regina in a while, I was looking to soothe my Winnipegger ego ("WELL THINGS MIGHT BE BAD IN WINNIPEG, BUT AT LEAST WE'RE NOT SASKATOON HAR HAR"). It backfired badly. Our downtown may be bigger but damnit there is like one place to buy a men's dress shirt left. Which puts us roughly on par with Gimli.

As is making high streets something other than traffic sewers.

Honestly I think this is what it boils down to. The lack of one measly high street. Give me one solid block of reasonably pleasant downtown retail with nice sidewalks and nice looking storefronts where I can pick up a few things in lieu of going to the suburban malls, or maybe take an out of town visitor to for a drink and I will shut up forever about this topic.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by esquire

Honestly I think this is what it boils down to. The lack of one measly high street. Give me one solid block of reasonably pleasant downtown retail with nice sidewalks and nice looking storefronts where I can pick up a few things in lieu of going to the suburban malls, or maybe take an out of town visitor to for a drink and I will shut up forever about this topic.

At least one version of the Transit Master Plan has Graham being converted to a pedestrian mall after the buses are moved to Portage. That would go a long way to creating a pleasant downtown high street. Whether the City has the fortitude to do that and not shout "Oh good more space for cars!" is a different matter.

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by zalf

At least one version of the Transit Master Plan has Graham being converted to a pedestrian mall after the buses are moved to Portage. That would go a long way to creating a pleasant downtown high street. Whether the City has the fortitude to do that and not shout "Oh good more space for cars!" is a different matter.

Also, walking pretty much anywhere in the Exchange is dangerous. People speed down Waterfront and Lily blowing through pedestrian crossings with people patiently waiting to cross... incredibly dangerous. Princess in insane... essentially viewed as a controlled access expressway by drivers... I'm surprised they even bother stopping at the lights. Yes, yes, some hyperbole here, but it is very dangerous. Speed bumps might solve the problem, at least along Waterfront.