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Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing
Lets be real here. No matter how many trees you place on a rendering, that won't calm a literal 7 lane highway going highway speeds.
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Ten foot lanes will. Nobody goes 55 down Burnside. (Plenty zoom freeway speeds on Lower Grand in L.A., though!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing
As Comrade also mentioned, advocates and City officials have been begging UDOT officials to redesign State Street for decades. Decades! And that's with all of the towers and workers along there.
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But...
It wasn't a situation where the state is suddenly held hostage because a tech bro might "take the team away."
It wasn't a situation where the county is considering demolishing two blocks.
It wasn't a situation where the developer wants a two-block highway tunnel.
We aren't in "business as usual." Strike while the iron is hot!
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Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing
Heck, they chose to build a pedestrian tunnel for City Creek rather than even consider making that street more friendly to people. Pedestrians have literally been hit and killed as a result of the horrid design of that street and yet nothing has ever changed along there.
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I'm confused. Which street?
Main has a bridge, not a tunnel. It's seen a major road diet. I guess I'm not sure where you're talking.
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Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing
So my skepticism is based on years of evidence.
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As it should be. An unprecedented situation is here. Let's not wave the white flag at the
beginning of negotiating.
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Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing
UDOT only seems to consider the efficiency of auto traffic on their roads. They aren't going around asking themselves "how can we make the pedestrian experience better." They just aren't. So expect that to be the real timeline for any of those kind of proposals. Decades. If ever.
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So, I've been to the UDOT Conference a couple of times (each November at the South Town Expo Center). The agency doesn't look it on the outside, but the attitude is rapidly changing from the inside out.
Go to any ITE meetup (Institute for Transportation Engineers) and mention "complete streets," roundabouts, or traffic calming — and you'll see the room light up. Engineers, who traditionally were stubborn in their 1960s mindset, are retiring and the new hires (Gen X and younger) have been very open to innovative ideas.
I don't know when the tipping point will hit, and in fairness it sounds like it isn't here yet, but one is coming.
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Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing
If the street was owned by Salt Lake, I would say there is a greater chance. But as long as the State has control of it, it will likely never happen. I'm sure we'd all love to be surprised, but I doubt it.
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I'm just saying, don't give up at the starting line. This battle IS winnable.
Even Region 3, which represents rural Utah and Provo, has been very enthusiastic about complete streets in urban areas. Check out Provo's 300 South Project, 500 West Project (both of which integrate specialized crossing for Provo's bike boulevards) as well as the coordination they did with UTA on University Avenue. That street is 100x better than it was when I was a young student there.
And that's Region 3. Region 2 is even more progressive. I think there is more fertile ground there than you give it credit. Especially if someone else is footing the bill.
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Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing
Also, you need to consider the whole enterprise of the Entertainment District to begin with.
Up until now, people going to events or games at the Delta Center: - Take trax and arrive at the nearest station or drive and park in the parking lot owned by the LDS Church.
- They brave crossing the wide roads to get the arena.
- They enjoy the event
- THEN THEY LEAVE
Obviously some might venture over to City Creek, but still only a small few considering how many people were attending these events.
For the Entertainment District to be successful, the pedestrian flow between the Delta Center and the District needs to flow easily without any real barriers.
It should feel entirely natural to move from the Delta Center directly into the District to shop, eat, drink, or enjoy other elements of the District.
The long-term economic success of the District depends on people staying in the area for as long as possible. Every person that looks at a 7-lane highway and decides to head back to their car or to the train (both in the wrong direction) instead of venturing across to the District is money lost.
That's why I think it's almost a necessity. Especially for an area and a populace that has mostly been trained to get in and get out as quick as possible.
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Is crossing to the Gateway really that impeded by a 100 ton locomotive?
Again, Burnside...
People CAN and DO cross six-lane streets all the time, if we build them correctly. Just because Utah hasn't yet done one right, doesn't mean there isn't room to do a first.
TRAX hadn't been done in Utah... until we did it.
The Jordan River Parkway hadn't been done in Utah... until we did it.
A tame arterial street hasn't been done in Utah... until we DO IT someplace. Why not here?
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OR... King Smith can just threaten to move to team to St. Louis, and the state can call a special session to remove 300 West from the State Highway System. It only takes one bill.