PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[TechTalkGuy]

If Amazon does not like taxes, they won’t like Philadelphia!
Correct me if I’m mistaken, but doesn’t Philadelphia charge a soda tax?

[McBane]

Speaking of bad rules, here's another.

Philadelphia could become the next city to pass a scheduling law for retail and fast-food companies

Now, these aren't major, high paying jobs that are at stake. But I can see a high end retailer thinking about opening in the region deciding between KOP and Walnut Street choosing KOP.

But the real issue here is the message being sent to the business community. That's the real problem. At the very least, it further cements our image as a city that's not an easy place to start or do business. The city needs to eliminate these laws, not keep passing them. Helen Gym is an idiot. Maybe one day there will be ONE voice on city council that speaks for the business community.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy

If Amazon does not like taxes, they won’t like Philadelphia!
Correct me if I’m mistaken, but doesn’t Philadelphia charge a soda tax?

You think Amazon cares about a soda tax?

Good lord.

[McBane]

It's not about Amazon. They're getting a ton of tax breaks. It's about the dudes just starting a business and thinking about where to locate (city or burbs); or the medium sized company from outside the city considering relocating but not big enough to be wooed by anyone; or the Philadelphia company or family that is maxed out with taxes.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by McBane

It's not about Amazon. They're getting a ton of tax breaks. It's about the dudes just starting a business and thinking about where to locate (city or burbs); or the medium sized company from outside the city considering relocating but not big enough to be wooed by anyone; or the Philadelphia company or family that is maxed out with taxes.

You have a similar refrain on here, but I think it often lacks common sense. If I need to start a business and want it to be in the city b/c of creative talent and amenities, a law that ensures better working conditions for retail folks and fast food employees is just, simply, not going to weigh in on the decision. I understand your notion of the preponderance of burdens but it's not zero sum. Some regulations help poor people, which is something we need more of in poverty-stricken Philly.

[McBane]

Again, it's about the image. Does such a law change the city's anti-business climate or further cement it? That's what I'm saying. Of course, I understand that tech companies and major corporations would never have to worry about paying this tax. But companies won't even consider Philly as long as it has this anti-business image.

[Boku]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

Chris Brennan
@ByChrisBrennan
Philadelphia's proposed new construction tax on hold till next week for amendment to clarify that it would not apply to potential #AmazonHQ2 sites, per City Council President @Darrell_Clarke

https://twitter.com/ByChrisBrennan/status/1007257403430260736

I wouldn't read anything into this regarding our chances for HQ2, but it's clear Commerce and City Council had some discussions behind the scenes lol.

If Amazon picks Philly, it won't have to pay construction tax to fund affordable housing

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/amazon-hq2-philadelphia-tax-incentives-20180614.html

If Amazon decides to build its second headquarters in Philadelphia, it would not have to pay a proposed construction tax created to fund affordable housing.

City Council wants to make that explicitly clear.

Council today added an exemption for all Keystone Opportunity Zones from the proposed 1 percent tax on new construction. The three sites Philadelphia pitched Amazon, at the Schuylkill Yards and uCity Square sites in West Philadelphia and South Philadelphia’s Navy Yard, are in Keystone Opportunity Zones.

Those zones, designated by the state and typically vacant land in under-developed areas, already are exempt from most local and state taxes.

[DMPHL]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

It's not like the airport can't handle them. It can.

Ehhh...depends on when those flights would depart and arrive. Arrive and depart in the middle of the prime afternoon TATL banks...they'd be hard pressed to find gate space.

[iheartphilly]

Philadelphia could become the next city to pass a scheduling law for retail and fast-food companies
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/fair-w...d-retail-philadelphia-bill-20180614.html

Sheesh, the arguments are stretched all over the place in this article.

"Representatives from retail and food service associations, such as David French, senior vice president for government relations of the National Retail Federation, say laws like this don’t reflect the fact that people choose these industries because of their flexibility."

"That doesn’t square with the experience of Tori Price, who used to work at the Target at 12th and Chestnut to help support her mother and siblings. “There’s no way to support a family of seven or do any financial planning when my hours range constantly from 20 to 35 hours per week,” the 19-year-old West Philadelphian said in written testimony at the March hearing. She was called in to work that day so couldn’t attend the hearing in person. “We have an eviction notice on our house, but I don’t even know what rent I can afford, so how can I look for a new apartment?”"

"Melissa Bova, vice president of government affairs for the Pennsylvania Restaurant and Lodging Association, said that a scheduling law would hurt a company’s bottom line."

"Gym said the law would be good for business, too, pointing to research that showed that more consistent scheduling led to higher productivity and sales."

No one is gonna to really say why retail and fast-food chains don't want it. I feel like everyone is out of touch about this.

[sayitaintso]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Philadelphia could become the next city to pass a scheduling law for retail and fast-food companies
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/fair-w...d-retail-philadelphia-bill-20180614.html

Sheesh, the arguments are stretched all over the place in this article.

"Representatives from retail and food service associations, such as David French, senior vice president for government relations of the National Retail Federation, say laws like this don’t reflect the fact that people choose these industries because of their flexibility."

"That doesn’t square with the experience of Tori Price, who used to work at the Target at 12th and Chestnut to help support her mother and siblings. “There’s no way to support a family of seven or do any financial planning when my hours range constantly from 20 to 35 hours per week,” the 19-year-old West Philadelphian said in written testimony at the March hearing. She was called in to work that day so couldn’t attend the hearing in person. “We have an eviction notice on our house, but I don’t even know what rent I can afford, so how can I look for a new apartment?”"

"Melissa Bova, vice president of government affairs for the Pennsylvania Restaurant and Lodging Association, said that a scheduling law would hurt a company’s bottom line."

"Gym said the law would be good for business, too, pointing to research that showed that more consistent scheduling led to higher productivity and sales."

No one is gonna to really say why retail and fast-food chains don't want it. I feel like everyone is out of touch about this.

This is like $15 minimum wage tax. They think they're helping people but don't have the slightest grasp of even the most basic of economic principles.

Loonies like Gym (who is nothing more than a professional whiner/victim) are why our city is so dysfunctional. This new regulation will raise unemployment while increasing median income.

It will disenfranchise the uneducated b/c when then need to decide who's hours to cut it will be those at the lower levels of productivity. Their jobs will be eliminated to equalize hours and the high performers will get the hours thus FURTHERING the income gap.

These dopes in city council only care about virtue signalling sound bites rather than actual consequences.

Retail and fast food jobs are for teenagers who have school, sports and other activities that rightly prevents them from working 8 consecutive hours 5 days a week. I guess city council does'nt care about part time teenagers getting some work.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

Retail and fast food jobs are for teenagers who have school, sports and other activities that rightly prevents them from working 8 consecutive hours 5 days a week. I guess city council does'nt care about part time teenagers getting some work.

If that were the case, how do retail businesses manage to be open during school hours?

Also, we're a little off-topic for a high-rise thread.

[Inquizative]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Chicago is definitely the wildcard. Most favored an east coast location. But, I can see one big advantage from Chicago over Philly and that is direct flights to the Far East.

Amazon, let's go with the announcement. All of us aren't getting any younger.

When Amazon first made it's announcement of a 2nd headquarters and described what it was looking for, example, city with a million or more, culture, diversity, east coast location, easy access to airport, highways, mass transit (30th St, Station), 8 million sq feet-Schuylkill Yards. I thought it was forgone conclusion that they were describing exactly what Philadelphia was selling. Also, Amazon an internet company, would be in good company to have the largest ISP in the U.S. in Comcast as it's neighbor. I think the decision has been made a good while ago and Philadelphia is getting ready. If it isn't Wash. D.C., then it's definitely Philly. I wouldn't bet the house, but I would bet the car, garage and the dog.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

This is like $15 minimum wage tax. They think they're helping people but don't have the slightest grasp of even the most basic of economic principles.

Loonies like Gym (who is nothing more than a professional whiner/victim) are why our city is so dysfunctional. This new regulation will raise unemployment while increasing median income.

It will disenfranchise the uneducated b/c when then need to decide who's hours to cut it will be those at the lower levels of productivity. Their jobs will be eliminated to equalize hours and the high performers will get the hours thus FURTHERING the income gap.

These dopes in city council only care about virtue signalling sound bites rather than actual consequences.

Retail and fast food jobs are for teenagers who have school, sports and other activities that rightly prevents them from working 8 consecutive hours 5 days a week. I guess city council does'nt care about part time teenagers getting some work.

Blah blah blah.

Increased minimum wage has not decreased jobs anywhere. If anything, it increases economic output because the increased wage goes to a person (i.e. a poor person) who will literally put 100% of it back into the economy, because they don't make enough as is to save.

In addition, the stores/locations are going to go where the people are, regardless of the "rules". If I'm opening a fast casual restaurant, I'm going to the location with the maximum potential audience. You think office workers are gonna drive to Bala Cynwyd for lunch because this regulation doesn't exist?

Give me a break. We're not on the level of a NYC or DC, obviously. But we shouldn't be acting like we're Arkansas either. Hell, even West Virginia has a higher minimum wage.

[sayitaintso]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

If that were the case, how do retail businesses manage to be open during school hours?

Also, we're a little off-topic for a high-rise thread.

Exactly! Thank you for proving my point

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by McBane

Again, it's about the image. Does such a law change the city's anti-business climate or further cement it? That's what I'm saying. Of course, I understand that tech companies and major corporations would never have to worry about paying this tax. But companies won't even consider Philly as long as it has this anti-business image.

My god. What in the world are you going on about?

Here are the proposed regulations:

-Give at least two weeks’ notice of schedules.
-Offer hours to existing employees when they become available instead of hiring new employees at a lower rate.
-Pay employees when shifts are canceled.

Wow. Sounds terrible.

I think it is about image. It projects the image that Philadelphia is a forward thinking progressive city that takes care of its citizens.

Most of the jobs this will affect are not going anywhere. Just about all of the highest volume stores in the region are in the city. Do you think they're going to move them to the suburbs because of the incredible burden of having to release their schedule a week earlier? Get real.

If it causes a few to go away, it won't be nearly enough to make this a net negative for the citizens of this city.

Why you think a company with high paying jobs would give even half a shit about this is beyond me. If anything they might view it as a positive that the place they're looking to live and work has retail employees who are experienced, helpful and happy.

[El Duderino]

^this has clearly hurt the business environment in other cities that have implemented similar measures, like new york, san fran and seattle.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by El Duderino

^this has clearly hurt the business environment in other cities that have implemented similar measures, like new york, san fran and seattle.

Very clearly! Why I even heard that a Seattle company is looking to open a second headquarters lately! Why wouldn't they consolidate those jobs where the company is already?

[/snark]

[acenturi]

Originally Posted by DMPHL

Ehhh...depends on when those flights would depart and arrive. Arrive and depart in the middle of the prime afternoon TATL banks...they'd be hard pressed to find gate space.

Flights from the U.S. East Coast to Japan/China typically depart before Noon and arrive back around 5PM. If gates where a problem, AA could easily move more narrow body departing international flights from A-West to non-customs gates in A-East, or even B. Further, AA always has the option of creating an additional arrival/departure Bank, subject to ATC agreement. Gates will not be an obstacle preventing AA/PHL from scheduling a flight to Asia - that's just about guaranteed. Now Back to Skyscraper talk. If Comcast is successful with their Fox bid, I think they should reward Philly with at least one new shiny 1200 Footer.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by allovertown

My god. What in the world are you going on about?

Here are the proposed regulations:

-Give at least two weeks’ notice of schedules.
-Offer hours to existing employees when they become available instead of hiring new employees at a lower rate.
-Pay employees when shifts are canceled.

Wow. Sounds terrible.

I think it is about image. It projects the image that Philadelphia is a forward thinking progressive city that takes care of its citizens.

Most of the jobs this will affect are not going anywhere. Just about all of the highest volume stores in the region are in the city. Do you think they're going to move them to the suburbs because of the incredible burden of having to release their schedule a week earlier? Get real.

If it causes a few to go away, it won't be nearly enough to make this a net negative for the citizens of this city.

Why you think a company with high paying jobs would give even half a shit about this is beyond me. If anything they might view it as a positive that the place they're looking to live and work has retail employees who are experienced, helpful and happy.

You're not hearing me. I don't have an issue with the law itself. It's very reasonable. Same with lots of other Philly-specific taxes and regulations. But taken together, they're a burden on businesses and like I said, they cement the perception that Philadelphia has an anti-business climate (newsflash: companies don't give a shit about locating in a progressive, forward thinking city. See Amazon's reaction to the Seattle Head Tax). And when you account for the fact that these laws only apply to Philadelphia and not the surrounding suburbs, it just makes the case for staying or relocating to Philadelphia harder to make. If they were passed statewide, I'd fully support them. But they're not. And Philly is far behind NYC, Seattle, and SF - booming cities that can overcome onerous and progressive laws. We're still trying to grow and attract businesses. Council should be trying to pass laws that shed the city's perception as a difficult place to do business; instead, they just keep piling it on.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

Retail and fast food jobs are for teenagers who have school, sports and other activities that rightly prevents them from working 8 consecutive hours 5 days a week. I guess city council does'nt care about part time teenagers getting some work.

I actually laughed out loud at how out of touch this line is.

Originally Posted by McBane

You're not hearing me. I don't have an issue with the law itself. It's very reasonable. Same with lots of other Philly-specific taxes and regulations. But taken together, they're a burden on businesses and like I said, they cement the perception that Philadelphia has an anti-business climate (newsflash: companies don't give a shit about locating in a progressive, forward thinking city. See Amazon's reaction to the Seattle Head Tax). And when you account for the fact that these laws only apply to Philadelphia and not the surrounding suburbs, it just makes the case for staying or relocating to Philadelphia harder to make. If they were passed statewide, I'd fully support them. But they're not. And Philly is far behind NYC, Seattle, and SF - booming cities that can overcome onerous and progressive laws. We're still trying to grow and attract businesses. Council should be trying to pass laws that shed the city's perception as a difficult place to do business; instead, they just keep piling it on.

So your solution is to enact zero regulations, even if they are smart and fair and help poor people, for the rest of Philadelphia's existence because it *may* have an effect on the city's perception by Business (capital B, the ultimate straw man by the way).