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  #1761  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 1:06 AM
nimsjus nimsjus is offline
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Pensacola appears to be doing just that... Go about half way down this page: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=135730&page=2

Last edited by nimsjus; Apr 23, 2008 at 1:07 AM. Reason: Of course the one time I use the up arrows it ends up on another page. Damn you skyscraper page.
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  #1762  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 1:39 AM
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Turns out you don't need the online research card to search the newspaper, just your regular library card. This is really useful information for me.

Anyway, here is an article from 1996.

Questions raised on financing, location of baseballstadium Wetlands cover most of site
Mobile Register (AL) - February 2, 1996
Author: BILL FINCH, Environment Editor
Standing water and a swampy forest cover most of the 30 acres where Mobile hopes to build a baseball stadium .

Some fear that construction there could raise the cost of the project, intensify runoff in the already-stressed Dog River basin and damage wildlife habitat and water quality.

The city filed a public notice Jan. 22 with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, proposing to fill 19.6 acres of a 40-acre wetlands for the stadium and parking. Another third of an acre would be filled to build an access road.

The wetlands are in a 180-acre parcel owned by a limited partnership, McGowin Properties Ltd. The partnership has offered to give or lease this particular 30-acre tract to the city.

In its request for permission to fill the wetlands , the city said it would build 17 acres of ``forested/marsh wetlands '' near West Fowl River.

Pat Robbins of the corps says the 19 acres designated for filling in the city's request was ``above average, but not the largest we've ever done.''

Mayor Mike Dow said Thursday that ``there are not a lot of unknowns on this'' and he wasn't expecting problems, because the corps has been doing work on the parcel since early January.

City engineer Bob Vogtner said he couldn't answer questions about the suitability of the wetlands for construction, or the costs of filling them. He said he ``had nothing whatever to do'' with the site-selection process.

But he said the city hired Thompson Engineering to start geo-technical surveys this week to determine suitability for construction. Results are expected back within two or three weeks.

``Unless it's a perfect situation, you're going to have earthworks involved,'' Vogtner said.

Outside the 40 acres described in the public notice as wetlands , the rest of the McGowin tract appears to be relatively dry and well-drained, invaded by thickets of Japanese privet and a smattering of oaks and loblolly pines.

Please see SITE on 4A

But the wetlands where the stadium would sit, tea-colored water stands ankle-deep. Ruts left by timber trucks have cut deep into mucky, black organic soil.

Walking through much of the wetlands requires hopping across the small islands of soil formed around the swelling butts of the trees. Water tupelo and slash pine and clumps of flowering sweet bay, red bay, possumhaw viburnum and titi trees and shrubs found almost exclusively in swampy wetlands cover much of the 40 acres.

Based on the soils, the standing water and the vegetation, corps researchers have determined that the area is a wetland , said corps spokesman Pat Robbins.

But Robbins said the corps has also determined that it is not ``a high-quality wetland '' because it has been affected by surrounding construction and man-made drainage ditches.

Judy Stout, biologist with Dauphin Island Sea Lab, said she believes that even an isolated, 40-acre patch of wooded wetlands can have multiple values.

From the perspective of Mobilians, ``it may have value in terms of ground water recharge and ground water purification and perhaps water detainment in times of high rainfall,'' Stout said.

But it also retains some value as habitat for Mobile's wild plants and creatures, she said. ``If I were a raccoon, I would want to live there,'' Stout said. Raccoon tracks covered the roads leading into the site.

Stout said there's not much probability that rare or threatened plants would be found there. But she said that the trees and other plants are integral to keeping the wetlands healthy.

George Crozier of Dauphin Island Sea Lab said he was concerned about what might happen to the water that drains off the new parking lots and roadways that would serve the stadium , particularly if the wetland buffer is destroyed.

``Any increased drainage ain't going no place but Dog River,'' Crozier said. That's a big problem, he said, in light of the recent study by the Alabama Department of Environmental Management, which showed Mobile's urban runoff is polluting Dog River with silt and chemicals.

``We can no longer add surface-water discharge,'' Crozier said. ``I think we've stretched the system to its limit.''

City Councilman Clinton Johnson said Thursday that detention ponds to remove sediment and improve water quality were being considered in the stadium plan. Crozier noted that ``10 acres of detention ponds do not replace 40 acres of swamp.''

Johnson left open the possibility that the city could ``request a different part of the property,'' if there are structural or environmental problems with the wetlands .

Dow said the city would seek another location only if this one proves unsuitable.

Before settling on the McGowin property, the city examined 12 other sites around the city. The old Monroe Park between Broad Street and Mobile Bay was one of those, but Dow said negotiations with the Alabama State Docks on the price are stalled.

Crozier said that the wetlands could be an education tool for the public, and speculated that preserving wetlands at the stadium could be linked to other projects.

For example, Crozier said he has tried to encourage Alabama highway officials to channel excess water into reconstructed wetlands at the nearby Interstate 65 interchange. At present, the contaminated road runoff is directed into concrete culverts that run straight to Hall's Mill Creek.

Photo

BILL FINCH /Mobile Register Wetland trees and shrubs grow where the city plans to build a baseballstadium .
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  #1763  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 2:01 AM
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I remember when the park deal was put together. I don't think any other area was seriously considered after the land was made available. The biggest discussion was whether eastern shore residents would support the park if it were put more downtown. Nearly everyone thought it should be in West Mobile so as to be close to most residents. The other amenities at the park are utilized by many civic groups for weekly meetings, etc; that would not happen if it had been downtown. Baseball is only one of several revenue sources for the ball club; there are birthday parties, club meetings, banquets and special events that make up the bulk of the business. Even though I want more downtown development, I think the stadium is in the right place.
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  #1764  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 5:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedMobile View Post
I remember when the park deal was put together. I don't think any other area was seriously considered after the land was made available. The biggest discussion was whether eastern shore residents would support the park if it were put more downtown. Nearly everyone thought it should be in West Mobile so as to be close to most residents. The other amenities at the park are utilized by many civic groups for weekly meetings, etc; that would not happen if it had been downtown. Baseball is only one of several revenue sources for the ball club; there are birthday parties, club meetings, banquets and special events that make up the bulk of the business. Even though I want more downtown development, I think the stadium is in the right place.
I agree. One of the things that has kept the BayBears in Mobile this long is they have a family-oriented marketing strategy. They have numerous events year round for kids. All the other sports in the pass didn't do that and look where they end up...in the graveyard.
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  #1765  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 5:16 AM
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I agree. One of the things that has kept the BayBears in Mobile this long is they have a family-oriented marketing strategy. They have numerous events year round for kids. All the other sports in the pass didn't do that and look where they end up...in the graveyard.
Also, there is one benefit for minor league baseball teams: their major league affiliate pays their player's salaries. Attendance only needs to be around 2k to break even usually. Mobile has averaged around 3-5 thousand per year since its inception.
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  #1766  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 6:09 AM
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Also, there is one benefit for minor league baseball teams: their major league affiliate pays their player's salaries. Attendance only needs to be around 2k to break even usually. Mobile has averaged around 3-5 thousand per year since its inception.
Not to mention people forget how nice we have it. It is a great ballpark and kids love it. Mobile doesn't have a ton of things to do that includes families and this is one of them. I think it is a beautiful venue especially with the lowered suite design. Bill Shanahan came in knowing the city and what people wanted. And more importantly he cared about what they wanted along with the team's success. Generally it is just the latter.

I also think a 50,000 seat arena over the Mobile Civic Center would be beautiful too.
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  #1767  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 6:13 AM
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I also think a 50,000 seat arena over the Mobile Civic Center would be beautiful too.
That would be great. Maybe we can beat Birmingham in building a dome.
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  #1768  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 6:21 AM
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That would be great. Maybe we can beat Birmingham in building a dome.
They got a 16 year head start.
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  #1769  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 1:10 PM
nimsjus nimsjus is offline
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Wow... different strokes for different folks I guess. I still disagree about the park and the location. If you go to sites that assess minor league ballparks, many of them rank Hank Aaron as one of the worst, especially considering how new it is. It was built like a 1970s/80s ball park. At that time it was popular to put parks in huge convenient parking lots near an interstate. Concourses were closed off from the stadium and they had a fairly generic setup. Camden Yards changed that and ever since minor and major league teams have pulled complete 180s on park design. They are building them downtown, without huge parking lots, with open concourses, etc. I just think we built a newer version of the Hoover Met instead of what Montgomery has with Riverwalk Stadium. I know lots of people here (college students and locals) that make trips from Auburn just because of what they hear about the stadium. How many people from Pcola are coming over to check out Hank Aaron Stadium? People from Fairhope don't even come over. I think you could have had all the other stuff-Birthday parties, gas light park, meeting space, etc at a downtown park too. From the way you guys talk it was never realy much of an option, but I think we missed the boat on that one. Averageing 2000 fans might keep the lights on, but as soon as another city offers the team a new stadium and a a few years of capacity crowds, they will be off to greener pastures. Thats how minor league baseball goes, especially AA and A ball teams.
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  #1770  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 2:44 PM
spookyapp spookyapp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimsjus View Post
Wow... different strokes for different folks I guess. I still disagree about the park and the location. If you go to sites that assess minor league ballparks, many of them rank Hank Aaron as one of the worst, especially considering how new it is. It was built like a 1970s/80s ball park. At that time it was popular to put parks in huge convenient parking lots near an interstate. Concourses were closed off from the stadium and they had a fairly generic setup. Camden Yards changed that and ever since minor and major league teams have pulled complete 180s on park design. They are building them downtown, without huge parking lots, with open concourses, etc. I just think we built a newer version of the Hoover Met instead of what Montgomery has with Riverwalk Stadium. I know lots of people here (college students and locals) that make trips from Auburn just because of what they hear about the stadium. How many people from Pcola are coming over to check out Hank Aaron Stadium? People from Fairhope don't even come over. I think you could have had all the other stuff-Birthday parties, gas light park, meeting space, etc at a downtown park too. From the way you guys talk it was never realy much of an option, but I think we missed the boat on that one. Averageing 2000 fans might keep the lights on, but as soon as another city offers the team a new stadium and a a few years of capacity crowds, they will be off to greener pastures. Thats how minor league baseball goes, especially AA and A ball teams.
I totally agree with you. The major league affiliates sign two-year contracts with the minor league franchise of their choice. Recently, the San Diego Padres left, and we now are affiliated with the Arizona Diamondbacks. This was reportedly due to location, but you can't deny the fact that Mobile's park is severely outdated, even though it is relatively new. Even at lower level standard's Hank Aaron Stadium is now a joke. It was rushed to be built and that short-sighted mentality has now come back to bite them. The seats in the stadium are abysmal, almost completely faded to white from green. The outfield wall is still a solid mass, while most stadiums offer some sort of padding for the players. The team averages about 3,100 fans so far this year, which runs in the middle of the pack in the Southern League. In contrast, The Mississippi Braves, which just opened the modern Trustmark Park average about 200 less. Just think if the management with the BayBears would commit more to the atmosphere as a whole...

The location is right. Families from all over can easily drive to the park without much fuss. Meetings and events like fun-runs can be held there too.

With a little facelift, Hank Aaron Stadium can return to the glory days of 97-99.
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  #1771  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 2:47 PM
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Also, why doesn't Sam Jones ask the citizens what they would like in the downtown park? I think an open space like it is now would be great, with an amphitheater for concerts and such. I think lining it with trees would be a mistake, making it just like every other park in the city: dreary and prone to being filled with homeless folks. I think more statues and manmade features would be of better value. Why not hire a landscape architect to design a feature rich space for all citizens to use and enjoy? Get it right for once. The city is losing money by leaving this lot vacant for too long.
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  #1772  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 2:53 PM
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They are hiring an landscape architect. I think it will turn out nice.
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  #1773  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 3:28 PM
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They are hiring an landscape architect. I think it will turn out nice.
I hope so...
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  #1774  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 3:53 PM
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I do like the idea of a amphitheater in the new park. Maybe even something fairly large (seating >1000 people). I could see it becoming a homeless magnet when it wasn't in use, but that is no the kind of thing you can really predict. It would be really nice to go hear some decently large acts at an outdoor concert. I know Montgomery used theres for acts from Sister Hazel to Alabama/Sara Evans to T-Pain. It also has one of those water splash pad playground things as well. All of this is right next to the river and their stadium. I think this park just needs something BIG to make it a unique space. It needs an aphitheater, a huge fountain, big monument/clock tower, market space or all of the above.
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  #1775  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 10:37 PM
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I walked by the Battle House today and noticed that they're working on the Joe Cain Cafe (I think that's the name) in the NW corner of the building. The doors were open and it looked quite nice inside.
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  #1776  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 11:07 PM
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While were on the subject of stadiums/sports arenas...

South Alabama is on record saying they would like to start building an on-campus football stadium within the next five years. What will become of Ladd after their move?

We need to either bulldoze it to the ground and rebuild or start major rehabilitation effort. I am a proponent of the former. Perhaps a football stadium could be built closer to downtown? Maybe north of Texas Street?
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  #1777  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2008, 12:29 AM
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While were on the subject of stadiums/sports arenas...

South Alabama is on record saying they would like to start building an on-campus football stadium within the next five years. What will become of Ladd after their move?

We need to either bulldoze it to the ground and rebuild or start major rehabilitation effort. I am a proponent of the former. Perhaps a football stadium could be built closer to downtown? Maybe north of Texas Street?
No doubt they would have to bulldoze it.

I want a 50,000-60,000 seat arena where the Civic Center is that could have South Alabama games. I normally hate off campus stadiums because it takes away from the atmosphere and traditions but lets face it, South doesn't really have either.
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  #1778  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2008, 4:19 AM
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Anyone looking to move "downtown"? A bunch of folks on my block (4 actually) have decided their property is more valuable as a sale rather than a rental and have but houses on the market. This would be Savannah Street between Charles and Chatham. Walking/biking distance to cbd, walk to Callahan's/Guido's/Washington Square/Others. There is also a a great buy on Savannah between Chatham and George. Come look - I hate for sales signs on my street.
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  #1779  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2008, 2:36 PM
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I would jump on it!! But I wont be looking for a home to buy for another nine months. What kind of prices are they?
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  #1780  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2008, 3:05 PM
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I think that the poeple of Cranival realy don`t take Mobile as serious as there other Ports. They are still confused about giving us a second or larger ship. The Holiday seats over 1400 passengers and the ship Sensation is said to be the replacement for Holiday. The Sensatio n can carry 2,050 plus passengers. The Holiday can carry 1,452 plus passengers and has been carrying up 1,800 since it first sailed out of Mobile.http://www.al.com/business/press-register/index.ssf?/base/business/1209028575122100.xml&coll=3
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