Winnipeg Construction X

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by pspeid

Funny I never even thought about this development, even though i've been watching the posts for a while now. I was thinking of the surface parking lot on Carlton between York and Broadway.

Unfortunately as has been mentioned here before, that surface lot is as good as permanent. Until WCB moves or land becomes so valuable that a private developer offers to build WCB a parkade for free, it's not going anywhere.

I think that newer fence that's made out of heaps of crushed granite is like a big middle finger from WCB to everyone saying WE'RE HERE TO STAY. It's one of the most excessive fences I've seen lol.

[esquire]

WCB renovating the Monarch Life Building was a blessing, but their insistence on maintaining that lot is a curse.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

that online doesn't adequately work for many things clothes, fresh produce, etc. If every store went exclusively online tomorrow, there would be a full on revolt

That simply isn't true any longer.

For clothes, the solution has been addressing the return side and making it simple and ease. See some clothing you like? Not sure how it will look on you? They send it to you so you can try it on. Don't like it return it and not be out of pocket anything. Instead of addressing the "how" question the focus has shifted on getting the last mile and customer acquisition costs as low as possible. It is also focusing on what happens with items when they are returned.

For the fresh food side it all comes down to the last mile. You don't order some lettuce online and ship it from where it is grown directly to your house. Instead you setup a local distribution point. The thriving online ordering for Save On Foods and their fleet of vans roaming the city for the past couple of years is proof of that. All the big players are either currently active or working on getting active in playing in this space.

Yes, in the near term clothing stores and grocery stores will continue to exist but we are closer to not going to traditional main stream stores than we are to seeing growth period in retail. The hard core retail space contraction has yet to slam into Winnipeg in a significant way but when places like the Polo Target, the former Sears, the former Home Outfitters, the former Staples, etc site vacant year after year waiting for someone to pick up the space and make it their own it is hard to overlook unless you are trying to ignore it.

When Sears closed Winnipeg lost five stores (including the Sears Home store). One was split to become a discount retailer and a relocation of an existing retailer (with their former space remaining vacant), two became grocery stores and one is becoming a gym. Outside of a couple new players working to establish a last mile presence in grocery where is this "growth" of retail you see happening that you feel will lead to a resurgence in downtown Winnipeg, and more specifically Portage Place?

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Unfortunately as has been mentioned here before, that surface lot is as good as permanent. Until WCB moves or land becomes so valuable that a private developer offers to build WCB a parkade for free, it's not going anywhere.

I am really starting to wish the downtown arena has actually built on that site just so we wouldn't have to read posts about the WBC surface lot being there "forever" once every three months or so.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by CoryB

That simply isn't true any longer.

For clothes, the solution has been addressing the return side and making it simple and ease. See some clothing you like? Not sure how it will look on you? They send it to you so you can try it on. Don't like it return it and not be out of pocket anything. Instead of addressing the "how" question the focus has shifted on getting the last mile and customer acquisition costs as low as possible. It is also focusing on what happens with items when they are returned.

For the fresh food side it all comes down to the last mile. You don't order some lettuce online and ship it from where it is grown directly to your house. Instead you setup a local distribution point. The thriving online ordering for Save On Foods and their fleet of vans roaming the city for the past couple of years is proof of that. All the big players are either currently active or working on getting active in playing in this space.

Yes, in the near term clothing stores and grocery stores will continue to exist but we are closer to not going to traditional main stream stores than we are to seeing growth period in retail. The hard core retail space contraction has yet to slam into Winnipeg in a significant way but when places like the Polo Target, the former Sears, the former Home Outfitters, the former Staples, etc site vacant year after year waiting for someone to pick up the space and make it their own it is hard to overlook unless you are trying to ignore it.

When Sears closed Winnipeg lost five stores (including the Sears Home store). One was split to become a discount retailer and a relocation of an existing retailer (with their former space remaining vacant), two became grocery stores and one is becoming a gym. Outside of a couple new players working to establish a last mile presence in grocery where is this "growth" of retail you see happening that you feel will lead to a resurgence in downtown Winnipeg, and more specifically Portage Place?

Dude I'm in the younger generation. You're just plugging your ears and going "lalalalalala" there is still an appetite among younger people to go into actual stores. I know a large amount of people in the 20-30 range who certainly prefer going into stores to see stuff.
Your solutions are non solutions. Shipping returns to figure out sizing and quality etc is tedious af.
You'll never succeed at completely killing traditional retail since it turns out people actually like to interface with the goods before buying.

[bomberjet]

We tried doing to the online grocery and disliked it. Seemed like things were more expensive than in store. Sales were not available. They could substitute items in your order. Or you just wouldn't get it if you deselected that option.

For clothing, depends on what business it's from. There are endless stories of ordering something and what you receive is a thin piece of garbage that doesn't fit. Then you need to return it, etc. I much prefer bricks and mortor. Not sure if I'm considered younger generation haha getting old.

That being said. my sister and sister in law swear by amazon. They order all kinds of stuff. Like diapers and stuff that can't really be messed with. They're hard products from known suppliers.

[esquire]

I get that online shopping is "the future" but even if it carves off 50% of the retail market, that still leaves behind a ton for bricks and mortar retail.

I mean, in the grand scheme of things, 30 or 40 new stores and boutiques opening up in downtown Winnipeg is nothing... it would be a speck in terms of Manitoba's overall retail spending. But it would still have a huge impact in terms of street life and the overall vitality of the urban core.

The fact that the future of retail is online doesn't mean that ALL retail will be online. Retail has grown so much in Manitoba over the last 25 years that even if some of that space ends up getting pulled off the market (like the old Sears stores), that doesn't change the fact that there is way more retail overall than there was in 1994.

[DirtWednesday]

I can see the big box stores - the Superstores, the Walmarts, the Canadian Tires, Cabelas, etc, all going primarily online/delivery with large warehouse distribution points in each city. I read Amazon has been buying up old dead malls and converting them into distribution centres.

I can also see a resurgence in small footprint, locally run, smaller inventory street front stores opening up in urban locations. Sure, they're often more expensive, but in an urban lifestyle, in a small apartment, it's fantastic running down to the street, within a couple blocks of your flat, and picking up a small bag of whatever you need that day.

[headhorse]

online shopping relies on massive amounts of subsidized infrastructure for delivery + emissions increases by delivery of individual items to individual homes. it also relies on continued existence of cheap labour and goods. it's not going to last.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by headhorse

online shopping relies on massive amounts of subsidized infrastructure for delivery + emissions increases by delivery of individual items to individual homes. it also relies on continued existence of cheap labour and goods. it's not going to last.

I think it's going to last a while.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by headhorse

online shopping relies on massive amounts of subsidized infrastructure for delivery + emissions increases by delivery of individual items to individual homes. it also relies on continued existence of cheap labour and goods. it's not going to last.

I don't understand how there is an increase due to the delivery of individual goods to individual homes makes any sense. If it's not being delivered by a courier then you would be going to get in anyway as an individual. At least this was there is a large amount of packages put on a truck and potentially delivered on a route that is more economical then a bunch of people driving to a store and then back home.

[dmacc]

If anything there are less infrastructure and emissions because a single warehouse produces less emissions then a dozen stores.

[Winnipeg Grump]

Originally Posted by headhorse

online shopping relies on massive amounts of subsidized infrastructure for delivery + emissions increases by delivery of individual items to individual homes. it also relies on continued existence of cheap labour and goods. it's not going to last.

Originally Posted by DirtWednesday

I can see the big box stores - the Superstores, the Walmarts, the Canadian Tires, Cabelas, etc, all going primarily online/delivery with large warehouse distribution points in each city. I read Amazon has been buying up old dead malls and converting them into distribution centres.

I can also see a resurgence in small footprint, locally run, smaller inventory street front stores opening up in urban locations. Sure, they're often more expensive, but in an urban lifestyle, in a small apartment, it's fantastic running down to the street, within a couple blocks of your flat, and picking up a small bag of whatever you need that day.

Nah, have you been to any of these stores lately? Online has been around long enough that it's a known option for people and they're still running out to those locations to do their shopping. They might trend to smaller footprints and downsize the onsite inventory but I can't see your forecast coming true.

Originally Posted by dmacc

I don't understand how there is an increase due to the delivery of individual goods to individual homes makes any sense. If it's not being delivered by a courier then you would be going to get in anyway as an individual. At least this was there is a large amount of packages put on a truck and potentially delivered on a route that is more economical then a bunch of people driving to a store and then back home.

To Headhorse's observation, the increase in traffic, emissions, and associated wear and tear on the infrastructure comes from asshats ordering a package of paper towels one evening and then some drain cleaner the next day and maybe a bit of groceries the day after instead of just making one shopping trip to a Superstore (or wherever).

Cory makes some good points but you have to be careful trying to draw a straight line between what happens in the US market versus what happens here. They're far more aggressive on the development side and have overbuilt their retail infrastructure.

[bomberjet]

Are there any studies out there on this topic? What about returns? "You just return something if you don't like it." That creates a whole issue in itself. Sending stuff back and forth.

Ordering groceries online is no different than you going to the store. Someone has to drive back and forth from your house just as you would. Maybe, eventually, it would come from a central warehouse that doesn't have to be made for the public. So could be more efficient in terms of building volume.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Are there any studies out there on this topic? What about returns? "You just return something if you don't like it." That creates a whole issue in itself. Sending stuff back and forth.

Ordering groceries online is no different than you going to the store. Someone has to drive back and forth from your house just as you would. Maybe, eventually, it would come from a central warehouse that doesn't have to be made for the public. So could be more efficient in terms of building volume.

Read an article the other day, I believe it was on CBC, about online returns. A number of companies just throw out clothes that have been returned as it's cheaper than dealing with inspecting/repackaging it etc.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Read an article the other day, I believe it was on CBC, about online returns. A number of companies just throw out clothes that have been returned as it's cheaper than dealing with inspecting/repackaging it etc.

So it's gonna cost us consumers more in the long run.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by CoryB

That simply isn't true any longer.

For clothes, the solution has been addressing the return side and making it simple and ease. See some clothing you like? Not sure how it will look on you? They send it to you so you can try it on. Don't like it return it and not be out of pocket anything. Instead of addressing the "how" question the focus has shifted on getting the last mile and customer acquisition costs as low as possible. It is also focusing on what happens with items when they are returned.

For the fresh food side it all comes down to the last mile. You don't order some lettuce online and ship it from where it is grown directly to your house. Instead you setup a local distribution point. The thriving online ordering for Save On Foods and their fleet of vans roaming the city for the past couple of years is proof of that. All the big players are either currently active or working on getting active in playing in this space.

Yes, in the near term clothing stores and grocery stores will continue to exist but we are closer to not going to traditional main stream stores than we are to seeing growth period in retail. The hard core retail space contraction has yet to slam into Winnipeg in a significant way but when places like the Polo Target, the former Sears, the former Home Outfitters, the former Staples, etc site vacant year after year waiting for someone to pick up the space and make it their own it is hard to overlook unless you are trying to ignore it.

When Sears closed Winnipeg lost five stores (including the Sears Home store). One was split to become a discount retailer and a relocation of an existing retailer (with their former space remaining vacant), two became grocery stores and one is becoming a gym. Outside of a couple new players working to establish a last mile presence in grocery where is this "growth" of retail you see happening that you feel will lead to a resurgence in downtown Winnipeg, and more specifically Portage Place?

Due to sizing, I rarely purchase online..You never know what size it really ends up to be and I have little time for the hassle of returns.
Now the new problem is most companies send your returned goods to landfills. That is lovely for our environment is it not? Greta T where are you?


...https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/...says-1.5393806

[headhorse]

https://www.citylab.com/environment/...-paris/602674/

Article about paris’ issue with amazon and local delivery

I think all the big box store compounds will mostly empty out in the next 20 years and we’ll see more urban high street retail. The massive amount of big box centres that fringe the city are going to be the big losers but I’m ok with that.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by headhorse

https://www.citylab.com/environment/...-paris/602674/

Article about paris’ issue with amazon and local delivery

I think all the big box store compounds will mostly empty out in the next 20 years and we’ll see more urban high street retail. The massive amount of big box centres that fringe the city are going to be the big losers but I’m ok with that.

I could see that. I'm sure there will be a few big boxes for the big, bulky items, but maybe instead of 6 or whatever Home Depots, maybe it will just be one or two, that kind of thing.

[buzzg]

Amazon and other major online retailers are starting to buy/lease up space in downtowns and dense urban areas to create smaller distribution centres for last-mile trips. I don't think we're dense enough to get that yet, but in a few years it could start.