Salt Lake MSA Development Thread

[TANGELD_SLC]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Official confirm plans for spy center at Camp Williams. More details announced for $2 billion center.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705338286/Leaders-to-unveil-Utah-spy-center-plans.html

MOST EXCELLENT! This can only be good for our long-term economic development. Does anybody know though where it'll get its power?

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by TANGELD_SLC

MOST EXCELLENT! This can only be good for our long-term economic development. Does anybody know though where it'll get its power?

...from the almighty and powerful federal government.

[urbanboy]

Originally Posted by Orlando

...from the almighty and powerful federal government.

And where do they get their power?

[WeST]

Same way we do... Rocky Mountain Power.

[delts145]

$1.9-Plus Billion NSA project to eavesdrop on electronic data while helping to preserve U.S. cybersecurity

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705338887/Camp-Williams-to-house-spies.html

One of the worst-kept secrets in Utah was made official Friday with the announcement that Camp Williams will be the site of a new national cybersecurity data center.

The site beat out 37 others nationwide for a $1.5 to 2 billion project that will employ as many as 10,000 workers during construction...


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[Orlando]

New $40 million student housing for honor students to be west of fort douglas housing

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5279/is_20091012/ai_n39351582/?tag=content;col1

[ski_steve]

Interesting they would choose that location for Honors housing. I lived on the honors floor my first year and it was really close to the honors college. Its weird that they would choose a location further away when they are planning on building more dorms behind the Honors Center. More student housing is definitely need though.

btw this should probably be in the Salt Lake thread

[delts145]

Blighted Midvale neighborhood receives new lease on life.

Midvale company moves, grows, expands

http://www.sltrib.com/midvalley/ci_13501764

...The property was an "incredible disaster" and in "horrible condition," said Blanch Linton, the network's co-founder. But, her son, the company's CEO, made her and others "look beyond the mess and see the potential that [was] there." ...

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[delts145]

34 Utah Albertsons stores to be converted to Fresh Market banner

http://www.heraldextra.com/business/local/article_1c057329-4034-5aec-bc23-f822a0d98566.html

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[RFPCME]

The new NSA data-storage facility at Camp Williams is intriguing...from two perspectives:

Why Utah????

What will be the economic impact????

The "Why Utah?" question is tough to answer. Power is not particularly cheap in Utah (but not horribly expensive either), so cheap power is not the reason for choosing Utah.

The facility must be extremely secure, yet accessible, and the Camp Williams location does have some obvious advantages in terms of security and accessibility.

Normally I might argue any high-tech facility (and the data-storage center is certainly high-tech) locating in Utah is partially doing so because of the access to top-flight universities, hence access to top-flight technical talent. While NSA is possibly the most high-tech of any Government agency, this center is data-storage, which is not particularly high-tech, unless the center personnel would write data query algorithms and the like. But I don't think that is the case. It seems the personnel would primarily be maintenance and support technicians.

You could also argue that great linguistic talent in Utah could come into play. I could see that if the center produced search queries. But again, I don't think that is the case.

So why Utah? Maybe someone has some better ideas than I do.

What will be the economic impact...beyond the massive construction effort?

When the Air Force was considering Hill AFB as a potential location for the Air Force's Cyber Command, we estimated that for every Government job at the base, there would be 10 contractor jobs, which is twice the normal impact. But I don't think that is the case here. At Hill, the Cyber Command would demand enormous engineering talent. I suspect the engineering demand for the data center will be far less. Maybe someone else with more experience in massive data storage centers will have better ideas about the number of non-Government personnel necessary to support the center.

Let's hope there will be activity beyond purely maintenance and support. If there is, then the impact will be huge. The kind of work to be done at the center is the highest of the high-tech, pushing the limits of artificial intelligence.

[DMTower]

^^^ I never did hear what happened with the cyber command and Hill AFB. Has the decision been made?

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by RFPCME

The new NSA data-storage facility at Camp Williams is intriguing...from two perspectives:

While NSA is possibly the most high-tech of any Government agency, this center is data-storage, which is not particularly high-tech, unless the center personnel would write data query algorithms and the like. But I don't think that is the case. It seems the personnel would primarily be maintenance and support technicians.

You could also argue that great linguistic talent in Utah could come into play. I could see that if the center produced search queries. But again, I don't think that is the case.

Where'd you get the idea that this was just a data storage facility? All the articles I've read seem to say that they will be doing data analysis.

"'I can't go into some of the details of the work,' said Glenn Gaffney, deputy director of national intelligence for collection, describing the center as providing the 'deep level of technical expertise needed to understand the nature of threats.'"

"Gaffney said Camp Williams, the chief training facility for the Utah National Guard, was selected because of the abundant, low-cost power available, as well as its size. Located between Utah and Salt Lake counties, the site is near three major electrical power transmission lines that serve the Wasatch Front."

[WeST]

Originally Posted by RFPCME

The new NSA data-storage facility at Camp Williams is intriguing...from two perspectives:

Why Utah????

What will be the economic impact????

The "Why Utah?" question is tough to answer. Power is not particularly cheap in Utah (but not horribly expensive either), so cheap power is not the reason for choosing Utah.

The facility must be extremely secure, yet accessible, and the Camp Williams location does have some obvious advantages in terms of security and accessibility.

Normally I might argue any high-tech facility (and the data-storage center is certainly high-tech) locating in Utah is partially doing so because of the access to top-flight universities, hence access to top-flight technical talent. While NSA is possibly the most high-tech of any Government agency, this center is data-storage, which is not particularly high-tech, unless the center personnel would write data query algorithms and the like. But I don't think that is the case. It seems the personnel would primarily be maintenance and support technicians.

You could also argue that great linguistic talent in Utah could come into play. I could see that if the center produced search queries. But again, I don't think that is the case.

So why Utah? Maybe someone has some better ideas than I do.

What will be the economic impact...beyond the massive construction effort?

When the Air Force was considering Hill AFB as a potential location for the Air Force's Cyber Command, we estimated that for every Government job at the base, there would be 10 contractor jobs, which is twice the normal impact. But I don't think that is the case here. At Hill, the Cyber Command would demand enormous engineering talent. I suspect the engineering demand for the data center will be far less. Maybe someone else with more experience in massive data storage centers will have better ideas about the number of non-Government personnel necessary to support the center.

Let's hope there will be activity beyond purely maintenance and support. If there is, then the impact will be huge. The kind of work to be done at the center is the highest of the high-tech, pushing the limits of artificial intelligence.

I disagree will your analysis that Utah doesn't have cheap energy. According to the Energy Information Administration Utah has close to the cheapest costs for electricity in the country. If you pay residential rates it is 9.11 cents per kwh. Commerical is 7.5 per kwh and industrial is 5.47 a kwh. That is far less than the US average. The NSA has publicly stated that Utah's cheap energy was a factor in the decision.

Further, they seemed to like the fact that Camp Williams has two major transmission lines intersecting there. This would give a lot of stability to the supply of energy.

As far as the economic impact, that is harder to pin down because of how secretive the agency is about its purpose. The easy part in analyzing impact would be the thousands of temporary construction jobs and the hundreds of permanent, very high paying, jobs. That money flowing into the economy then is largely spent at Utah businesses and has a multiplier effect. Where it gets difficult is if they will use Utah resources to supply equipment etc.

There are then a lot of intangibles such as prestige, exposure, slowing brain drain, and technology synergy.

I am extremely bullish about this data center and how it will compliment what momentum Utah already has.

[RFPCME]

Originally Posted by DMTower

^^^ I never did hear what happened with the cyber command and Hill AFB. Has the decision been made?

DMTower:

The decision where to locate the Air Force's Ciber Command has become a political football. The first round of selection took place, and Utah did not make it. There are 10 sites remaining. I cannot remember all the sites still in contention, but I do remember 2 were in Texas, as well as Colo. Spgs., Hanscom AFB outside of Boston, Barksdale AFB in LA, and Maxwell AFB in AL. I was not pleased with what I saw in the final proposal from Utah. It was pretty much a marketing brochure, with not much substance. But the project was dropped into the hands of the Office of Economic Development who did not have the technical expertise to respond well.

Nevertheless, it probably doesn't matter. The Army and Navy saw the whole idea as an attempt by the Air Force to grab the responsibility for protecting DoD cyberspace away from the other services and did their best to stall the whole idea, which they did.

If the Air Force goes through with relocating their Cyber Command away from Barksdale AFB in Louisiana, it will likely be in a much smaller form than originally planned. Hill AFB may actually get one of the Cyber Command Wings (the people who will do the work). So there will likely be some positive impact on Utah, although not nearly at the level we had originally hoped for.

[RFPCME]

weST:

You were absolutely right. Power rates in Utah are among the cheapest in the country--9th lowest.

Also, your point Camp Williams being in close proximity to two major transmission lines is also a good one.

I have to believe, however, that the massive increase in power consumption in Utah caused by the NSA site will have negative consequences for non-Government power users. Rocky Mtn. Power will have to buy power off the grid at some point and that will mean higher prices for other customers.

We'll see. I'm surprised no one has asked this question before.

If I were cynical, I would say that maybe one of the reasons NSA did choose Utah was that the Agency would receive less grief from power consumers in Utah than it would from other areas in the country. What do you think?

[RFPCME]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Where'd you get the idea that this was just a data storage facility? All the articles I've read seem to say that they will be doing data analysis.

"'I can't go into some of the details of the work,' said Glenn Gaffney, deputy director of national intelligence for collection, describing the center as providing the 'deep level of technical expertise needed to understand the nature of threats.'"

"Gaffney said Camp Williams, the chief training facility for the Utah National Guard, was selected because of the abundant, low-cost power available, as well as its size. Located between Utah and Salt Lake counties, the site is near three major electrical power transmission lines that serve the Wasatch Front."

Stenar:

I did not see the quote from Gaffney. You may be right...but I don't think so.

I do work that is sometimes indirectly related to work done by the intel agencies, like NSA. I know a big piece of NSA's mission is language analysis, looking for patterns in the millions of phone calls and e-mails and other forms of personal communications. The people who do this work are some of the brightest and best educated people in the world. They are the ultimate nerds, working in an area as difficult as theoretical physics.

Of course, the analysis work does not have to take place in Utah. It can be done anywhere. My guess is that is what will happen.

[delts145]

LOL...So then, it sounds like we're going to get allot of Chloe O'Brian types,(actress Mary Lynn Rajskub from 24) moving into the area. Great show, great actress/character.

[delts145]

S. Jordan is thriving in recession, thanks to savvy planning

Daybreak, community garden

by two.more.seconds


The number of new housing units in South Jordan last year was eight times that of its neighbors. Plus it's the only south valley city to see an increase in sales-tax revenue. (Jeffrey D. Allred, Deseret News)

...Drive through the massive Daybreak development at the west bench of the city and you'll pass a picture-perfect Pleasantville-esque community — million-dollar mansions next to townhomes, groups of young moms pushing toddlers in jogging strollers, pocket parks tucked behind rows of houses, and a variety of housing styles that seamlessly blends a southern colonial next to a modern contemporary...

...

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/70534...ssion-thanks-to-savvy-planning.html?pg=5

[wrendog]

Draper and Orem In n Out scheduled to open on November 19th....

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by wrendog

Draper and Orem In n Out scheduled to open on November 19th....

I'll be at the Draper one.