CHICAGO | General Developments - Page 874

HomrQT · #**17461** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 4:48 PM**

A question to just throw out there for anyone... are bricks a thing of the past for large construction projects? Is that era over and our current stock of these buildings are just going to slowly disappear?

SamInTheLoop · #**17462** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 4:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Apartments?

While acknowledging that this issue re the 4 and under floor vs 5 and up falling under completely different building codes is real, it's also very interesting that a few posts later were photos of a - what 10 or 11 story, 99 unit apartment building, also in the generally speaking near nw side.........so the rental point here is a great one. Not being super familiar with the western and cortland location, at least not nearly as much as the division and ashland one, obviously economics can vary quite a bit from locale to locale...........differences in demand for rental units vs condos can be tricky according to very neighborhood/street-'feel' specific micro characteristics.....however, western and cortland is practically on top of a mass transit station........ I guess in the end though if in a large majority of cases it's not economic to build a denser residential development than the one we're getting in a location such as this one in Chicago, then it's difficult to come to a conclusion other than there indeed does need to be a reworking of the building code in this city to address this issue....

Andrew|W · #**17463** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 5:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ I have mixed feelings.

On one hand, the renovations to create a more street-friendly retail environment are exactly what a person like me should want.

On the other hand, I kind of like the design of the ground level of this building. It fits the design of its era, and we will be losing that forever..

I certainly don't think Millenium Park Plaza is the most attractive building on Michigan, and it's lower floors are in some great need of TLC (especially the little plaza at the site of the proposed tower). However, from the little that I can see in the rendering of the proposed retail base, it seems to be completely out of character and at odds with the tower that sits atop it.

It would be nice if they could have zoomed out and shown the whole base (and drawn the tower the way it actually looks, not as a variation of a Mies van der Rohe design).

the urban politician · #**17464** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 5:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomrQT

A question to just throw out there for anyone... are bricks a thing of the past for large construction projects? Is that era over and our current stock of these buildings are just going to slowly disappear?

Is Ronald McDonald House made of brick?

Mr Downtown · #**17465** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 5:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomrQT

A question to just throw out there for anyone... are bricks a thing of the past for large construction projects?

I certainly don't think so. Residential projects still consider them a mark of distinction, and we've seen a number of modest but very handsome multifamily projects in the last decade along Division, Damen, Armitage, Lincoln and other arterials.

The Roosevelt Collection and some of the Central Station projects have used it to signal loft-style product. Even for skyscrapers, buildings like Astoria Tower have made excellent use of honest-to-goodness laid-up brick.

Vlajos · #**17466** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 5:57 PM**

Cubs announce plan for hotel near Wrigley

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,4608342.story

k1052 · #**17467** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 6:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Cubs announce plan for hotel near Wrigley

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,4608342.story

I saw soil testing being done on the land last year. I would guess their development plans are pretty far advanced at this point so as to have a carrot to dangle in front of Rahm.

HomrQT · #**17468** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 6:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

I certainly don't think so. Residential projects still consider them a mark of distinction, and we've seen a number of modest but very handsome multifamily projects in the last decade along Division, Damen, Armitage, Lincoln and other arterials.

The Roosevelt Collection and some of the Central Station projects have used it to signal loft-style product. Even for skyscrapers, buildings like Astoria Tower have made excellent use of honest-to-goodness laid-up brick.

I totally forgot about the Astoria Tower. Good one. I was starting to get a feeling that brick couldn't hold up on such a large a building in comparison to what the benefits concrete, glass, and steel can provide. It's just such a warm material to use, has such great history, and I think it looks amazing, I'd hate to see brick go by the wayside because of costs or something.

Vlajos · #**17469** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 6:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052

I saw soil testing being done on the land last year. I would guess their development plans are pretty far advanced at this point so as to have a carrot to dangle in front of Rahm.

You are absolutely right.

harryc · #**17470** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 6:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Is Ronald McDonald House made of brick?

Old building - made of bricks

New building - clad in brick

This will not happen on the new building

Rizzo · #**17471** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 7:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomrQT

A question to just throw out there for anyone... are bricks a thing of the past for large construction projects? Is that era over and our current stock of these buildings are just going to slowly disappear?

I'm not really following when you say "and our current stock of these buildings slowly going to disappear." The city has built tons of brick structures in the past two decades. Even with all the glass towers downtown, brick probably made up the largest share of exterior envelope city-wide.

It's not really cost effective to do brick in highrise applications unless you integrate it with a precast panel. But the look and expression tends to get lost way high up which is why developers will avoid that premium and opt to use it in lowrise applications more commonly.

What will get lost over time is Chicago common brick. You can't really repurpose Chicago common as a structural wall or veneer on exteriors so it's used alot for interior partitions or repairs. Much of what you see is jumbo size masonry units or lower end CMU....despite that extremely high end CMU finishes exist in the market.

As far as standard application of brick. Tastes shift. As of late, you tend to see alot more clean, crisp and flat surfaces or else glass. Lots of stone application being done on homes these days. Sometimes wood. Brick always persists as a popular material in construction, but more present during some decades.

SamInTheLoop · #**17472** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 8:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Right now, the market seems to favor the West Loop over the South Loop. So my guess is that, among the two visionary "parks over an expressway" (Kennedy cap vs Columbus cap), the West Loop one will happen sooner. Plus, we now have a private developer expressing interest in it.

Has a private developer ever discussed covering a portion of Columbus in return for some sort of density bonus in the South Loop? Mr. D? Anyone?

First the west loop expressway thing is obviously still very much visionary/pipe dream.....could it happen - yes. But this publicity thing recently by Fifield just made me chuckle. 'Here are some pretty drawings, and it will only take $xx from you, city to make this work'.....c'mon

UP, you're comment relating to geographical market preferences in and around downtown really got me thinking.........I think it's fair to say that the south loop/near south side has in the last couple years really been out of favor, at least relative to other parts in and adjacent to the Loop. I think it's undoubtedly strongly related to the 'bustier' nature of the condo market in the south loop in the last 3-4 years. However, this presents a real opportunity for some developers/investors to take advantage of what I see as a relative mis-pricing here......the fundamental positives remain firmly intact, and the market will mount a sustained fairly strong recovery I believe. Right now, there's a real opportunity for rental unit developers. Even if you include the trashy new amli project on s. clark as well as Golub's development at 9th and State, there are an immediate additional few opportunities for large rental developments.....it's a no-brainer. A little further into the future, the condo market will come back. It's not as much of a no-brainer though as the Loop proper, though - the untapped potential there for new rental and for-sale residential (both adaptive re-use and new construction) within let's say 5-6 blocks of State and Madison is I think absolutely enormous......

untitledreality · #**17473** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 8:42 PM**

Has anyone picked up the Business section of today's Tribune?

A. They have an article regarding the "Prairie Blocks" going to auction.

B. The main piece today focuses on the new wave of large scale rental projects going up in the city, including a map of u/c and planned projects.

There are a few that I don't recall hearing/seeing anything about: a planned project at North/Clybourn (Im guessing the New City development?), another project planned around Randolph and Desplaines and yet another around 800 N LSD. Granted it is a vague map in the Tribune, so the locations are probably off, but I thought I would at least ask in case something passed under my radar.

HomrQT · #**17474** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 10:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayward

I'm not really following when you say "and our current stock of these buildings slowly going to disappear." The city has built tons of brick structures in the past two decades. Even with all the glass towers downtown, brick probably made up the largest share of exterior envelope city-wide.

It's not really cost effective to do brick in highrise applications unless you integrate it with a precast panel. But the look and expression tends to get lost way high up which is why developers will avoid that premium and opt to use it in lowrise applications more commonly.

What will get lost over time is Chicago common brick. You can't really repurpose Chicago common as a structural wall or veneer on exteriors so it's used alot for interior partitions or repairs. Much of what you see is jumbo size masonry units or lower end CMU....despite that extremely high end CMU finishes exist in the market.

As far as standard application of brick. Tastes shift. As of late, you tend to see alot more clean, crisp and flat surfaces or else glass. Lots of stone application being done on homes these days. Sometimes wood. Brick always persists as a popular material in construction, but more present during some decades.

So the gorgeous Chicago brick is being phased out? Even for small construction residential?

richb · #**17475** Posted **Jan 17, 2013, 10:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomrQT

So the gorgeous Chicago brick is being phased out? Even for small construction residential?

Due to air pollution regs, Chicago common brick hasn't been made since the late 1970's early 1980's. So where ever you see it, its used brick. Since its no longer made, its no longer cheap, like it once was.

Rizzo · #**17476** Posted **Jan 18, 2013, 4:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomrQT

So the gorgeous Chicago brick is being phased out? Even for small construction residential?

No longer used. But if you want something regional there's fly ash brick. Still a very clean masonry unit as opposed to rugged common bricks but compacted and good for the environment. Though I'd never spec it in a load bearing application. (Can you?) I haven't used fly ash brick on a project yet but I used to recall it being more brittle unless that's changed.

Rizzo · #**17477** Posted **Jan 18, 2013, 2:21 PM**

Corner storefronts between Friday's Restaurant and Tumi on Michigan ave have construction plywood up to the second floor. Looks like a big retail arrival. Walgreens? Uniqlo?

HomrQT · #**17478** Posted **Jan 18, 2013, 2:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by richb

Due to air pollution regs, Chicago common brick hasn't been made since the late 1970's early 1980's. So where ever you see it, its used brick. Since its no longer made, its no longer cheap, like it once was.

Oh man, good for the environment, but it's a TRAGEDY that new bricks are no longer in circulation. I'll have to shop around and get some for some minor house projects I want to accomplish.

Mr Downtown · #**17479** Posted **Jan 18, 2013, 3:26 PM**

^Chicago common brick is subtly beautiful when used properly. But as Edward Dart's clients eventually learned, it is not particularly resistant to moisture penetration.

Skyguy_7 · #**17480** Posted **Jan 18, 2013, 4:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago_Forever

..Anyway, on their advertising brochure for the new retail space it says the space will be two blocks from the new Mandarin Oriental Hotel, isn't that the Mandarin that got cancelled when the market collapsed? lol

Perhaps Mid-America Group knows something we don't-

http://blog.chicagoarchitecture.info...=Google+Reader

..There was "action" last night at the Mandarin site. This is one SCB project I wouldn't mind seeing pop up.