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  #17421  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2024, 2:02 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is online now
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
This is unfortunately very normal.

What sucks is that OC transpo is probably not maintaining waterproofing and expansion joints at the transitway stop on the surface, and it's going to profoundly f*ck with train service in the future when this area will require full, expensive, invasive concrete repairs, instead of minor regular surface maintenance that requires someone be paying attention and do work.
Long-term Line 1 closure at St. Laurent for major repairs?? I hope not. This would be catastrophic.
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  #17422  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2024, 4:10 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Long-term Line 1 closure at St. Laurent for major repairs?? I hope not. This would be catastrophic.
Maybe this time they'll actually improve the bus passenger zone, which was pledged to have happened at the same time they redid the bus deck from above over the past year.
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  #17423  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2024, 7:49 PM
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RailFans Canada has a new live cam set-up at Ottawa's Bayview Station:

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They are always looking for new people to host these rail cams.
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  #17424  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2024, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
This is unfortunately very normal.

What sucks is that OC transpo is probably not maintaining waterproofing and expansion joints at the transitway stop on the surface, and it's going to profoundly f*ck with train service in the future when this area will require full, expensive, invasive concrete repairs, instead of minor regular surface maintenance that requires someone be paying attention and do work.
What gives you that impression? They were literally doing concrete replacement works on the surface bus loop just this past summer.

You can even see on Google streetview: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4203...5410&entry=ttu
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  #17425  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2024, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
What gives you that impression? They were literally doing concrete replacement works on the surface bus loop just this past summer.

You can even see on Google streetview: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4203...5410&entry=ttu
Not only this, but the structure isn't the responsibility of OC Transpo - it falls to Infrastructure and Water Services Department.
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  #17426  
Old Posted May 17, 2024, 4:39 PM
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St-Laurent LRT station to be skipped by trains for ceiling inspection
No details have been released about the nature of the disruption to the ceiling.

Joanne Laucius, Ottawa Citizen
Published May 17, 2024 • Last updated 32 minutes ago • 1 minute read


LRT service at the St-Laurent station has been disrupted after a problem was discovered in the station’s suspended ceiling this morning.

Full service is running on the Confederation line, but trains will not stop at St-Laurent Station, said OC Transpo.

“Earlier this morning, following a regular visual inspection, it was observed that a few of the suspended ceiling tiles above the platform were disrupted,” said OC Transpo director of engineering services Richard Holder in a statement.

“Following our standard operating procedures, there will be a detailed inspection carried out to assess the cause,” said Holder. “In order to allow staff to set up the necessary work area to conduct the inspection, St-Laurent Station will be skipped.”

No details have been released about the nature of the disruption to the ceiling.

Bus shuttle service is being offered between St-Laurent and nearby stations.

Transit users have been advised to check social media media channels or octranspo.com for updates.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ing-inspection
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  #17427  
Old Posted May 21, 2024, 8:16 PM
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LRT station inspections expanded after St. Laurent ceiling problem
OC Transpo will have inspections at three more LRT stations—Parliament, Rideau and Lyon—"out of an abundance of caution."

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published May 21, 2024 • Last updated 2 hours ago • 2 minute read


The ceilings at Parliament, Rideau and Lyon LRT stations will be inspected “out of an abundance of caution” while remedial work continues on the ceiling at St. Laurent Station, OC Transpo General Manager Renée Amilcar said Tuesday in a memo to the mayor and members of council.

St. Laurent Station has been closed since Friday after OC Transpo discovered corrosion and damage on some of the ceiling panels. In her memo, Amilcar said Rideau Maintenance Group had completed the removal and reinforcement of the station’s drop ceiling and was making progress on repairs to the concrete.

To speed the work, LRT service between Blair and Hurdman stations will be stopped Tuesday night at 10 p.m. and replaced with R1 bus service. Trains will run normally between Hurdman and Tunney’s Pasture.

“Crews will continue to work in the station today (Tuesday) to support the remaining remedial work, and final inspections to confirm that any hazards associated with the concrete roof slab and the suspended ceiling have been fully mitigated. The final inspection may require some further remedial work to be completed. The cleaning of the station will also begin today to support the reopening of the station,” Amilcar’s memo said.

Amilcar said she hopes full service will resume Wednesday as planned. Another update on the repairs is expected Wednesday morning.

“Given the state of the suspended ceiling infrastructure in St. Laurent Station, out of an abundance of caution, OC Transpo has asked RTM to conduct proactive inspections of the suspended infrastructure at Parliament, Rideau and Lyon Stations,” Amilcar said. “More details on the timing and impact of those inspections will be announced once plans are finalised.”

It’s the second time this year that service at St. Laurent Station has been disrupted. In January, workers found concrete had fallen from the ceiling onto the tracks. The station predates the Confederation Line, having been originally built to serve buses on the Transitway

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...eiling-problem
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  #17428  
Old Posted May 22, 2024, 1:22 PM
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St-Laurent station reopens, update on inspection to come
OC Transpo will hold a conference for press and city councillors to give a situational update

Gabrielle Huston · CBC News
Posted: May 22, 2024 7:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 2 hours ago


St-Laurent station reopened Wednesday morning after a five-day closure. Light rail trains are running on schedule.

On May 17, inspectors at St-Laurent station observed that "a few of the suspended ceiling tiles above the platform were disrupted." The station was closed so that engineers could perform a full inspection and repair.

An update sent later by Renée Amilcar, the city's general manager of transit services, added that they found "evidence of corrosion of some ceiling panels and potential delamination of the concrete."

Delamination was also the reason that chunks of concrete fell onto the tracks at St-Laurent in January, disrupting service. That inspection confirmed there was a separation of the paste layer at the surface, creating an unbonded layer with the main slab.

A freedom of information request obtained by CBC News earlier this year showed that warning signs preceded that incident; inspection of the full station had been skipped and repairs were not undertaken after "severe" problems were observed in 2020.

The same inspection reports note that the ceiling tiles at St-Laurent sustained water damage.

OC Transpo will hold a conference for press, city councillors, and the public at 1 p.m. on May 22. It is expected to provide an update about the work that had to be done and what next steps need to be taken.

The public can watch on the livestream on the City of Ottawa's YouTube channel.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...iles-1.7210868
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  #17429  
Old Posted May 22, 2024, 10:10 PM
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OC Transpo still can't say what's causing the leaks plaguing LRT stations
Inspectors didn't find leaks over St-Laurent platforms in January because they didn't look there

Elyse Skura · CBC News
Posted: May 22, 2024 5:44 PM EDT | Last Updated: 22 minutes ago


The corrosion found behind ceiling tiles over the last week was only the latest issue with the aging St-Laurent tunnel, but inspectors could not have found the problem while repairing fallen concrete in January — because they never looked for it.

On Wednesday, OC Transpo staff said the issue was caught last Friday when someone conducting a routine visual inspection noted ceiling tiles suspended over the platform were discoloured.

A closer look found the steel rods holding them up were corroding.

"There were also areas of concern related to the concrete roof slab," explained Richard Holder, the city's engineering director.

"That concern was precipitated by discolouration of the concrete, by signs of some visible cracking and efflorescence, which is a calcium buildup that looks like a stalactite that was dripping down from the top of the roof slab."

Engineers were confident enough to reopen the station Wednesday morning, although riders will notice a thin mesh has been added above platform boarding areas to protect them from falling concrete debris.


<more>


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ions-1.7211528
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  #17430  
Old Posted May 27, 2024, 1:03 PM
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Alstom halts work on redesign hailed by city as 'final fix' to LRT woes
Ottawa urging trainmaker to resume work on new wheel bearing assembly, says report

Elyse Skura · CBC News
Posted: May 27, 2024 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 5 hours ago




https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...woes-1.7213904

Last edited by rocketphish; May 27, 2024 at 10:22 PM. Reason: Added image
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  #17431  
Old Posted May 27, 2024, 5:54 PM
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One only has to think back to the beginning phases of the Transitway when we were told by both OC Transpo and the politicians that the transitway would be designed to LRT standards. This was to make the conversion to rail a no brainer. The alignment of Line 1 was done on the cheap to minimize costs. It looks like that the assumptions of the Transitway were carried on by the planners of Stage 1 and continues to again be carried on in Stage 2 as shown by the alignment at Blair Road. It would have been better to shorten Stage 1 and do it right. Waiting longer between Stage 1 and Stage 2 to resolve all of the issues would also have been wiser because it would have avoided repeating some of the mistakes of Stage 1.
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  #17432  
Old Posted May 27, 2024, 8:25 PM
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What were the realistic projections for travel time in between Lees and Tremblay? There are 5 curves, 3 of them quite sharp. Did the city really think 'oh yeah, we'll get her up to 50/60kph"? I have more of an issue with the trains grinding and failing than them traveling slowly through that stretch.

I just don't see how that alignment could have been changed without building new bridges and realignment of the VIA tracks and various other things. It wasn't realistic.

The alignment out of Blair is unfortunate. I'd like to know what the section around Pinecrest cost because Blair would be the same setup more or less.

It all comes down to cost benefit analysis. These trains were sold to us(the public at least) that they would be able to navigate these curves at a reasonable speed or at the very least not fail to the point of being a safety issue.

Having to go through a couple sections of track at 40k rather than 70k and save hundreds of millions of dollars sounds like a reasonable tradeoff to me. But unfortunately we can't even get that. That is the real issue to me. They can't operate within the parameters they set. Simple as that. Professional failure across the board.

I suppose it begs the question.. if we could magically straighten the section between Lees and Tremblay would we be free of all axle problems or is there a bigger picture here?

Another thought... the trains are all manually driven correct? The trains often lurch to a halt at stations. Just for the sake of trouble shooting I would automate the trains to operate identically. Every train runs the exact same pattern every single trip. Eliminate the variables, that's like the first step of troubleshooting. To appease the union and public leave the drivers in the cab. (The trains are manually driven right?)

So in the end of this chapter... It's been a year since the concept of redesigning the axles commenced or however you wish to phrase it and we are now back to square one with little to no progress or explanation seemingly. "Alstom has indicated that a Sustainable Solution can be achieved without a redesign and is not currently working on this initiative,"

Sounds like Alstom be saying.. we sold you the trains. you built the system. lose my f***ing number kthxbye.
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Last edited by rocketphish; May 27, 2024 at 10:23 PM. Reason: Edited-out the profanity
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  #17433  
Old Posted May 27, 2024, 10:07 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis View Post
What were the realistic projections for travel time in between Lees and Tremblay? There are 5 curves, 3 of them quite sharp. Did the city really think 'oh yeah, we'll get her up to 50/60kph"? I have more of an issue with the trains grinding and failing than them traveling slowly through that stretch.
I don't think anybody ever expected a track speed like that, no.
These curves also aren't especially "sharp", at least by railway standards.

Quote:
I suppose it begs the question.. if we could magically straighten the section between Lees and Tremblay would we be free of all axle problems or is there a bigger picture here?
It could maybe mask the problem by reducing how often high lateral loads are placed on the axles, but those curves aren't the only places that the trains see higher lateral loads.

That's why any conversation about these curves in particular are unfounded from the get-go. It's about curves in general (specifically: lateral loads), not any special subset of the system's curves that "look tight".

Quote:
Another thought... the trains are all manually driven correct? The trains often lurch to a halt at stations. Just for the sake of trouble shooting I would automate the trains to operate identically. Every train runs the exact same pattern every single trip. Eliminate the variables, that's like the first step of troubleshooting. To appease the union and public leave the drivers in the cab. (The trains are manually driven right?)
They are generally under automatic train operation.
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  #17434  
Old Posted May 28, 2024, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by OCCheetos View Post
I don't think anybody ever expected a track speed like that, no.
These curves also aren't especially "sharp", at least by railway standards.


It could maybe mask the problem by reducing how often high lateral loads are placed on the axles, but those curves aren't the only places that the trains see higher lateral loads.

That's why any conversation about these curves in particular are unfounded from the get-go. It's about curves in general (specifically: lateral loads), not any special subset of the system's curves that "look tight".


They are generally under automatic train operation.
I think the question should be is "why do we have trains that can only seem to travel in a straight line". Especially for a vehicle that was designed for on street usage
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  #17435  
Old Posted May 28, 2024, 1:17 PM
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This video on YouTube explains the track-train wheel interface really well. It's noted in the video that wheel flanges should not touch the rail - they are there as a last resort!

It's clear when you hear the squeeling of the train around curves (large and small) that something isn't right. Issues seems to point to one or more of the following: incorrect rail profile, incorrect wheel profile, and/or track cant. Turns are jagged and feel forced even at slow speeds. As others have said the track curve radii are small around Hurdman, but they most certainly exceed the minimum for LRT standards.

Will be interesting to see once the truth comes out!
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  #17436  
Old Posted May 28, 2024, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
I think the question should be is "why do we have trains that can only seem to travel in a straight line". Especially for a vehicle that was designed for on street usage
This is a key question I agree, I wish one of our councillors would get this answer in plain terms.
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  #17437  
Old Posted May 28, 2024, 8:16 PM
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I think the question should be is "why do we have trains that can only seem to travel in a straight line". Especially for a vehicle that was designed for on street usage
Nobody is suggesting that the trains travel in straight lines. The question is why do the trains have to go so slowly on the curves, especially curves that are relatively close together ie: Iris to St Laurent. If you want people to use the train for long distances you have to minimize dwell time and speed restrictions. This will become more important when extensions to Kanata and Stittsville and extensions to Barrhaven are complete. Lines 1 and 3 are trunk lines which should be designed for consistent higher speeds.
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  #17438  
Old Posted May 28, 2024, 8:21 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
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Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
I think the question should be is "why do we have trains that can only seem to travel in a straight line". Especially for a vehicle that was designed for on street usage
Not an engineer but curious why you say especially for a vehicle desidnted for on street usage. In my experience Trams in mix traffic do not make sharp turns at high speed. Sometimes at end points there is a grade seperate U but otherwise turning at intersections is something done at lower speeds. The odd system that puts Trams in tunnels seems to do it for a short straight section.
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  #17439  
Old Posted May 28, 2024, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by GoTrans View Post
One only has to think back to the beginning phases of the Transitway when we were told by both OC Transpo and the politicians that the transitway would be designed to LRT standards. This was to make the conversion to rail a no brainer. The alignment of Line 1 was done on the cheap to minimize costs. It looks like that the assumptions of the Transitway were carried on by the planners of Stage 1 and continues to again be carried on in Stage 2 as shown by the alignment at Blair Road. It would have been better to shorten Stage 1 and do it right. Waiting longer between Stage 1 and Stage 2 to resolve all of the issues would also have been wiser because it would have avoided repeating some of the mistakes of Stage 1.
If they truly designed the Transitway for future conversion, they probably had high floor light rail in mind, similar to Edmonton and Calgary, not low floor streetcars.
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  #17440  
Old Posted May 28, 2024, 9:47 PM
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Explainer: Beware the bogie man — What you need to know about LRT wheels
A report about efforts to find long-term solutions to wheel-related problems is to be delivered this week to a special joint meeting of the City of Ottawa's transit commission and the LRT sub-committee.

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published May 28, 2024 • Last updated 1 hour ago • 4 minute read




It’s been nearly three years since a faulty wheel caused the derailment of a Confederation Line train just outside Tunney’s Pasture Station, but a permanent fix to the problem remains frustratingly elusive.

Greasing the track, grinding the rails, reducing speed limits on curves, even installing extra pins to better secure train wheels are among the short-term fixes being used by Rideau Transit Group to ease stresses on each train’s cartridge bearing assembly (CBA), a crucial component of the wheels.

“These mitigations, however, do not resolve the outstanding lack of consensus on root cause of the CBA failures,” says a report to be delivered this week to a special joint meeting of the City of Ottawa’s transit commission and the LRT sub-committee.

“It is imperative that RTG works with its track and vehicle teams to reach agreement on the corrective action plan that will ensure the sustainability of the railway.”

The Problem

Who can forget 2021, the Confederation Line’s summer of woe?

On Aug. 8, an eastbound O-Train derailed about 90 metres of east of Tunney’s Pasture Station. There were no passengers onboard and no injuries, but it took three days to move the crippled train back to the RTG maintenance facility for inspection. A Transportation Safety Board report determined a wheel on the train had “severed from the axle due to an undetected catastrophic roller bearing failure and subsequent axle journal burn-off.”

The LRT was out of service for more than five weeks while workers inspected every train in the fleet, finding and replacing three more faulty axles.

A few weeks later, on Sept. 19, there was another derailment, this time near Tremblay Station and with passengers aboard. A westbound train went off the rails and tore up 400 metres of track, shutting the system down for two months. That accident wasn’t caused by an axle failure, however, but was blamed on an improperly tightened bolt after an axle inspection.

And the gremlins weren’t done yet. In July 2022, an alert driver was leaving Tunney’s Pasture Station when he noticed an unusual vibration and stopped the train. The cause was later found to be another failure inside the cartridge bearing assembly.

In July 2023, service was suspended again after a routine inspection found leaking grease on one train that was traced back to a failed bearing.

Each of the Alstom Citadis Spirit trains on the Confederation Line has 20 wheels: four wheels to each of five bogies. Each bogie, in turn, has two cartridge bearing assemblies, complex units that house bearings and a splined axle for each wheel. The CBAs were designed to have a life of 1.2 million kilometres of use.

The Studies

A myriad of reports have tried to identify the problem and to find short-, medium- and long-term solutions.

Among them were a Rail Safety Advisory letter from the Transportation Safety Board, an independent inspection of the track by MxV Rail, ongoing studies by the National Research Council, an independent report by the engineering firm James Boyle and Associates as well as investigations by the city, RTG and trainmaker Alstom, the latter of which is being independently reviewed for the city by the Mott MacDonald engineering firm.

The fixes

Inspections: RTG has stepped up inspections of the bogies, first to every 7,500 kilometres of use, later reduced to every 3,750 kilometres. Additionally, leading and trailing bogies — the ones that endure the highest stresses — were replaced, first every 175,000 kilometres and eventually every 60,000 kilometres.

Speed reductions: The Confederation Line has a number of curves that place higher than expected stress on train wheels. To reduce those, the train operates with temporary speed reductions (TSRs) along several sections, notably east of the Rideau Centre and east of Hurdman Station. The TSRs remain in effect two years after they were imposed.

Restraining rail adjustments: The Confederation Line includes a third “restraining rail” along its curves that is meant as a safety feature to prevent derailments. These rails were found to be rubbing the wheels, increasing wear and tear, so in 2023 crews painstakingly shifted each one to provide more clearance.

Top rail lubricants: Greasing the tracks is more than just a cliché. RTG is installing “top of rail friction modifiers” along tracks to reduce the stress and vibration on the wheels. The above-ground units are to be installed by the end of May with work on the those in the tunnels to be completed this summer.

Nut pinning measures: Since train wheel vibrations have been blamed for loosening nuts within the wheel assemblies, maintenance crews have been installing simple pins to keep the nuts firmly in place.

Smart bugs: NRC-designed “smart bugs” use accelerometers to measure vibrations within the bearing assemblies and to warn when something goes wrong. If they work, the devices could be installed on all trains.

Rail grinding: Like all tracks, the Confederation Line rails need periodic regrinding to maintain their shape. That work will be done in October during a partial shutdown for maintenance.

The long-term solution

A complete wheel assembly redesign: There’s the rub. RTG is committed to providing a complete redesign of the cartridge bearing assembly, one that will strengthen it and “better withstand the lateral forces experienced on the Confederation Line and deliver a product that meets reliability, availability, maintainability, and safety requirements,” the city report says.

Alstom, however, disagrees. “Alstom has indicated that a Sustainable Solution can be achieved without a redesign and is not currently working on this initiative,” the report says. “The city has formally communicated the imperative for the re-design work to re-commence.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...out-lrt-wheels
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